Standard boost (bar) on a MY00
14 May 2003, 10:20 PM
#7
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: BHP Club
Posts: 4,200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My boost gauge has read 1.1 but usually stays round the 0.9/1.0 area.
MY98 Turbo - standard
[Edited by Gangsta Smurf - 5/14/2003 10:21:09 PM]
[Edited by Gangsta Smurf - 5/14/2003 10:21:37 PM]
MY98 Turbo - standard
[Edited by Gangsta Smurf - 5/14/2003 10:21:09 PM]
[Edited by Gangsta Smurf - 5/14/2003 10:21:37 PM]
Trending Topics
14 May 2003, 10:28 PM
#8
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Bradford
Posts: 13,720
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe I'm wrong as I've never seen standard boost in my car but I'm sure JB told me it was 0.8. I'd have thought it would be higher as the turbo can go to about 1.3 which is a fairly heafty increase
15 May 2003, 06:51 AM
#11
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
See Here All.
http://www.sciencemadesimple.net/EASYpressure.html
I have a MY99 with full decat running at 1.06 kilopascal (kPa) = 0.15374 psi (just under 15.5psi).
Sounds OK to me!
Micky
http://www.sciencemadesimple.net/EASYpressure.html
I have a MY99 with full decat running at 1.06 kilopascal (kPa) = 0.15374 psi (just under 15.5psi).
Sounds OK to me!
Micky
15 May 2003, 09:41 AM
#12
15 May 2003, 09:42 AM
#13
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: 1600cc's of twin scroll fun :)
Posts: 25,565
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Should state that my calculations are taken from Haynes Manuals (well my mondeo one 
) along with alot of other calculations you can use on your car (if your good enough!)
Tony
) along with alot of other calculations you can use on your car (if your good enough!)Tony
15 May 2003, 01:40 PM
#16
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Bradford
Posts: 13,720
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now my MY00 runs at around 1.2 bar, 1.3 when cold
15 May 2003, 02:34 PM
#18
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: 1600cc's of twin scroll fun :)
Posts: 25,565
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Full decat, (scoobymania d/p and ppp exhaust) PPP ecu (ie its a PPP'd car )
On a warm day the car runs at 1.1ish bar, 1.3 is the most ive seen it at but 1.2 bar is still only 18.75psi (cut out is just below 20psi on the PPP ecu).
Tony
)On a warm day the car runs at 1.1ish bar, 1.3 is the most ive seen it at but 1.2 bar is still only 18.75psi (cut out is just below 20psi on the PPP ecu).
Tony
15 May 2003, 06:50 PM
#20
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: 32 cylinders and many cats
Posts: 18,658
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Tony unless you are running octane booster AND optimax the timing on the PPP is too advanced to safely run the sorts of boost levels you've seen on most cars. It is probably detting lightly when this happens, and could damage things on track quite easily.
PPP boost target is 15.7 PSI, with a fuel cut at 19.6 PSI.
When I map a car I find that the sort of timing used on the PPP on a hot day often causes det if it runs over 17.5 PSI. And no the ECU does not always pick it up. The PPP is designed around conservative boost levels and lots of timing and is sweet when doing this. Running higher boost is safer on a standard ECU with a FCD.
Tony IMHO you should really drill out your restrictor to turn it down a bit or get a knocklink. You are peaking 3 PSI over setpoint, and when the ECU sees this it is designed to **** itself and work really hard to pull the boost down, which at the least will not make for a smooth drive. If anything like most the boost control will be horribly underdamped, and the size of the peak will vary wildly with temperature and load.
I can absolutely assure you that the MY99/00 boost target is 13.7, PPP and STi/P1 is 15.7. These are in the midrange, they may peak higher, but should not peak a lot higher.
[Edited by john banks - 5/15/2003 6:55:04 PM]
PPP boost target is 15.7 PSI, with a fuel cut at 19.6 PSI.
When I map a car I find that the sort of timing used on the PPP on a hot day often causes det if it runs over 17.5 PSI. And no the ECU does not always pick it up. The PPP is designed around conservative boost levels and lots of timing and is sweet when doing this. Running higher boost is safer on a standard ECU with a FCD.
Tony IMHO you should really drill out your restrictor to turn it down a bit or get a knocklink. You are peaking 3 PSI over setpoint, and when the ECU sees this it is designed to **** itself and work really hard to pull the boost down, which at the least will not make for a smooth drive. If anything like most the boost control will be horribly underdamped, and the size of the peak will vary wildly with temperature and load.
I can absolutely assure you that the MY99/00 boost target is 13.7, PPP and STi/P1 is 15.7. These are in the midrange, they may peak higher, but should not peak a lot higher.
[Edited by john banks - 5/15/2003 6:55:04 PM]
15 May 2003, 07:20 PM
#21
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: 1600cc's of twin scroll fun :)
Posts: 25,565
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
John,
I should have said that these are my "peak" values
She normally sits around 1.1 bar on average, 1.2 when pushing then drops back down, 1.29 (on a very cold day).
The restrictor is drilled out already, a knocklink is on the books but i dont normally rag the *** off my car (ie i change before the redline, 6.5k) if im playing
Most of the time i just use the midrange grunt but my readings are from my defi gauges so i dunno if these are prone to any inaccuracies?
Tony
(ps im still only pushing 262bhp which is quite low for a modified scoob).
I should have said that these are my "peak" values
She normally sits around 1.1 bar on average, 1.2 when pushing then drops back down, 1.29 (on a very cold day).
The restrictor is drilled out already, a knocklink is on the books but i dont normally rag the *** off my car (ie i change before the redline, 6.5k) if im playing
Most of the time i just use the midrange grunt
but my readings are from my defi gauges so i dunno if these are prone to any inaccuracies?Tony
(ps im still only pushing 262bhp which is quite low for a modified scoob).
15 May 2003, 07:41 PM
#23
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: 1600cc's of twin scroll fun :)
Posts: 25,565
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Some small pointer though
First of all, the PPP is designed to run 97 ron fuel, i run 98.6 ron fuel which will give me a slightly better burn (and if you ever see how dirty my exhaust gets you wouldnt want to clean it either!)
Secondly, i also have gauges which do tell me stuff (oil pressure, boost and EGT).
I normally see the egt pushing around 500 deg c on a hard run, 350-400 on a normal motorway run (the sensor is in the top of the downpipe) so its not excessive (which i believe i would get if i was detting).
The 1.2psi is a peak measurement, 1.1 is around the normal mark (as stated above, the 1.29 was also a peak but in cold weather).
I still have my somewhat restrictive PPP exhaust on (as its pretty quiet on those long runs) and my restrictor is drilled to 1.2mm (professionally done )
If my engine blows up, ill just have to get a big loan out and modify it some more
Tony
First of all, the PPP is designed to run 97 ron fuel, i run 98.6 ron fuel which will give me a slightly better burn (and if you ever see how dirty my exhaust gets you wouldnt want to clean it either!)
Secondly, i also have gauges which do tell me stuff
(oil pressure, boost and EGT).I normally see the egt pushing around 500 deg c on a hard run, 350-400 on a normal motorway run (the sensor is in the top of the downpipe) so its not excessive (which i believe i would get if i was detting).
The 1.2psi is a peak measurement, 1.1 is around the normal mark (as stated above, the 1.29 was also a peak but in cold weather).
I still have my somewhat restrictive PPP exhaust on (as its pretty quiet on those long runs
) and my restrictor is drilled to 1.2mm (professionally done )If my engine blows up, ill just have to get a big loan out and modify it some more
Tony
15 May 2003, 10:55 PM
#24
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: 32 cylinders and many cats
Posts: 18,658
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Indeed midrange overboost peaks before the ECU catches it are where you get det. I would want to see your highest ever peak to be 1.2 without a knocklink with that map, but it is your engine. I would leave it as it is if you had a knocklink and it was quiet. Not ragging your car for minutes at a time will help reduce the chance of det. However, even me driving it could probably get it detting in road use.
Yes your PPP is safe on 97 RON, BUT you are giving it far more boost than it is designed for, the gauges you have won't tell you if it is detting and you have a downpipe on it.
I am not saying it is the least safe setup in the world, but you have eaten massively into your safety margins.
I would dearly love to send 1.25 bar maps out to people without knocklinks with the sort of timing PPP runs, but quite a few cars det horribly even on Optimax on this setup. I have to pull out a decent amount of timing to be able to confidently say to people they can run it on hot track with the advice they also use octane booster for the day.
On some cars this higher boost and more retard doesn't work so well as on others, but I've tried adding just one or two degrees onto my base maps to some cars running 18 PSI and they just won't take it. Some will take considerably more.
Unless you have a knocklink you won't know.
Banksie the knocklink evangelist And I don't even sell them!
In summary, if you car is able to run 1.29 bar with PPP timing then it will be quicker than a lot of the ones I churn out... but also at significant risk of detonation.
Yes your PPP is safe on 97 RON, BUT you are giving it far more boost than it is designed for, the gauges you have won't tell you if it is detting and you have a downpipe on it.
I am not saying it is the least safe setup in the world, but you have eaten massively into your safety margins.
I would dearly love to send 1.25 bar maps out to people without knocklinks with the sort of timing PPP runs, but quite a few cars det horribly even on Optimax on this setup. I have to pull out a decent amount of timing to be able to confidently say to people they can run it on hot track with the advice they also use octane booster for the day.
On some cars this higher boost and more retard doesn't work so well as on others, but I've tried adding just one or two degrees onto my base maps to some cars running 18 PSI and they just won't take it. Some will take considerably more.
Unless you have a knocklink you won't know.
Banksie the knocklink evangelist
And I don't even sell them!In summary, if you car is able to run 1.29 bar with PPP timing then it will be quicker than a lot of the ones I churn out... but also at significant risk of detonation.
15 May 2003, 11:04 PM
#25
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: 32 cylinders and many cats
Posts: 18,658
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
BTW Tony, you would be safer running 362 BHP on a standard engine that is not detting than 262 BHP on one that is.
Peak in-cylinder pressures and temperatures from detonation are your biggest danger, and the thing that will make holes in your pistons, ruin your headgasket integrity, snap your rods and do you bearings in. A doubling in boost gives you a higher brake mean effective pressure (so torque and therefore power) from greater area under the curve mainly but only a slightly higher peak cylinder pressure, which pales into insignificance compared with the pressures you get from detonation.
The TD04 at high boost (and yours reaching 1.29 bar is high) creates a lot of hot air and exhaust back pressure and is a seething stewing pot in the cauldron for detonation disasters. It can still be useful (just) at that level of boost, but you have to know it is not detting.
Peak in-cylinder pressures and temperatures from detonation are your biggest danger, and the thing that will make holes in your pistons, ruin your headgasket integrity, snap your rods and do you bearings in. A doubling in boost gives you a higher brake mean effective pressure (so torque and therefore power) from greater area under the curve mainly but only a slightly higher peak cylinder pressure, which pales into insignificance compared with the pressures you get from detonation.
The TD04 at high boost (and yours reaching 1.29 bar is high) creates a lot of hot air and exhaust back pressure and is a seething stewing pot in the cauldron for detonation disasters. It can still be useful (just) at that level of boost, but you have to know it is not detting.
16 May 2003, 09:51 AM
#26
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Bradford
Posts: 13,720
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Banksie the knocklink evangelist And I don't even sell them!
Good explanation of the risks of det by the way, I picked up a few things I didn't know
16 May 2003, 05:40 PM
#28
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: 32 cylinders and many cats
Posts: 18,658
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Wouldn't run the FCD without knocklink as the FCD will make it more advanced depending on defend point as the MAP is an input into load. You can run 1.1 bar though.
