rosswalker

??? I have an interest in tuning an MY99 (although I will probably not got very far ie TD05 + TEC3) I am interested what are peoples ideas on what the limits are in terms of the engine internals of an MY99, can you just put bigger and bigger turbos injectors,and fuel pumps, untill the engine goes bang, or is there a limit to what the engine can produce, or is this govened by the size and capacity of the turbo only? What kind of boost have people run on uk turbos longterm? What kind of BHP and torque is the engine capable of given a bigger turbo and fuel pump etc? Basically where do the limits of tuning an engine with standard internals end???? and what are the restraining factors of a standard engine internally?

john banks

I would love to know the "answers" to these questions. Popular wisdom suggests 350 BHP to be the sensible limit, but popular wisdom moves on. 300 BHP was considered the limit on standard internals by most a year or two ago, and nothing has changed on these 2 to 4 year old engines during this time except that people have got a bit braver and there have been more turbos and other bits and bobs available.

The reason I am cynical about there being definitive answers is how are you going to prove what an engine will do with reliability? Anyone that has gone over 350 BHP can tell you:

- how they did it
- how long for
- under what conditions
- what problems they had

but you are only taking a few snapshots.

How many have tested an engine at 350 BHP on standard internals running this level of power on normal unleaded fuel for 24 hours continuously at 6500 RPM for example, and then repeated it 10 times and x rayed all the internals afterwards and taken the worst case?

I guarantee that the mean time between failures will be less at 350 BHP than 300 BHP and at 250 BHP.

It is the level of reliability you are prepared to entertain, and how much you want to spend to achieve your power.

You can do it cheaply, and be very cunning or lucky or both and your engine last at fantastic power.

Detonation has to play a massive element. A 2.0 litre engine on pump fuel can get feisty once you go over 150-175 BHP/litre, and the utmost care is required.

The standard UK pistons are cast, and the ring lands in particular are not reputed to be strong. Some estimate that 60 seconds of det over one year was enough to break a ring land.

The rods are arguably under threat more from tension from 7000 RPM than compression from quite silly torque up to the same RPM.

Is there an oiling issue for the bearings which causes them to pick up? This on standard and high power cars? Do uprated oil pumps help?

More questions than answers I am afraid.

My opinion is that you are not taking undue risk by running a UK engine at 320 BHP if it has been done carefully, temperatures and detonation are controlled.

You are more likely at this level to have transmission problems, a good gearbox to handle this with relability is about £2500 plus installation and a clutch, you are looking at £3000 just to sort out a reliable transmission. I thought I was very careful with my gearbox compared to a lot of Scooby drivers, but it still broke at about 350 BHP. Since I have been over 300 BHP I have been very methodical and smooth with gearchanges, matching revs, taking my time etc. Still didn't help.

Over 300 BHP a UK MY99/00 arguably needs quite a lot of work on the suspension and brakes to make the most of it as well. The engine is arguably the least of your worries in making a complete all rounder of a car.

Creepy

I agree with you completely John, the last thing you should do is power up the engine. I have a almost standard engine on my 99 but better suspension and brakes.
When racing on our nearby track, every car is outbraked and outcornered by me, with only 220bhp. And I'm talking now BMW M3, 911, Cerbera and other quickies...

Better brakes are worth 50bhp, better suspension also.

Why messing around with the engine and ECU, engineers tested years and ruiend dozens of engines on the test-bank just to make a final good one.

I don't even wanna think about boost-fuel-and so on controllers.

Stick to the original ECU, maybe within a few months an Ecutek but then it will end for me...
And I can run over 300000km's with my engine...as proven before.

Creepy--

rosswalker

Thanks for the reply guys. Just one more Q for JB. What kind of set up would you need to get 300-310 bhp on a UK.
I have been doing a bit of research and have come to this package, could you please advise me if I will be achiving it correctly in your opinion?

TD05 Hybrid from Mark
Sti 550 injectors
Walbro fuel pump
HKS Plugs (what would you recomend?)
Forge recirc d/v
Samco turbo hoses
Boost Guage
Knock Link
Fuel preasure Regulator(???)
Sti 6 Intercooler
TEK 3 (Probably through BR)
(already have GG Sports cat exhaust, blitz filter, TEK2)
Car currently 251bhp@Powerstation, 267bhp @ Clive Atthowe's in Norwich, both times running only 1 bar.

Your opinion would be greatly apreciated, please could you also mention any parts you feel would not be needed to reach my aim, and bits I may need that I have not mentioned.
Thanks in advance,
Ross W

T-uk

personally I would knock the 550's, forge dump valve, samco hoses and Sti intercooler off your list and put the cash from these items towards a front mount intercooler.

dowser

For sure the 550's aren't required to get to 320 - but I'd add a knock and lambda link just so you know what's going on.

I'm was running between 340-350 on a standard tmic....but this was through the winter, don't know how it would cope with summer temps.

Also consider an inlet pipe and catch tank. With this set-up you should get the results you want in quite a 'relaxed' fashion with a front entry td05.

However - the standard brakes/suspension/gearbox are all woefully inadequate at this level....

Richard

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

"How many have tested an engine at 350 BHP on standard internals running this level of power on normal unleaded fuel for 24 hours continuously at 6500 RPM for example, and then repeated it 10 times and x rayed all the internals afterwards and taken the worst case?"

Ooooh a mission for me Right, I may not have run mine for 24 hours at constant engine speed, but I did run for 12 months, 25k miles at this sort of power, with 4 track days and Elvington, before I broke a selector rod

I collected the gearbox today from Barretts (thanks Phil!), I've got a set of 550's to fit, and as the car is now my hobby vehicle rather than the daily driver I might be prepared to push things a little harder, all in the interests of science of course and to see what we can really extract out of the car with my shiney new Pat spec exhaust system and MD304 turbo

So if it does let go, or if I get the new engine built before this happens, or I don't leave my job I have access to all the X-ray toys I could ever need But it won't tell you much, I doubt that there will be any structural changes in the materials that will be evident uder X-ray that weren't there to start with...crack testing would tell us more (X-ray is not good for crack testing, dye pen or ultrasonics should be used here)

Still if anyone wants to chip in on the rebuild costs I'll be happy to carry out the investigative work on my old engine