CharlieWhiskey

My car is supposed to have had new coil packs fitted (whilst having some bodywork done) as it has been missfiring on cold damp mornings.

I have been told by the bodyshop that Beechdale's have recieved a Subaru Bulletin 'this morning' saying that this not be the case as it may be a 'neutral sensor' or something like that?

Has anyone heard of this or could shed any light on it?

I was convinced it was the coil packs as it is OK once the engine has warmed up. Car has 93k Miles so it is not unreasonable for the insulation on the coil packs to be going.

What I don't want is for them to charge me for changing a sensor, only for it to have to go back in to have the coil packs done as well

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

I had been having miss fires and running problems from about 90k and finally changed them at 120k and the car is transformed..

They are easy to change yourself if you want to.. I am near Beechdale Derby and can show you if you like.

Also you canget them for £25+vat from www.gradea-subaru.com secondhand if the £48.22 + VAT each is a bit much to swallow.

JGM

CharlieWhiskey

I will see what it is all about tomorrow as it will, HOPEFULLY, be finished by then My car has been in Wrights for over two weeks, the original estimate was 4-5 days.

Got to give Beechdale a call to see what this bulletin is all about & if it does apply to 'older' cars with perished insulation.

If they hav'n't done the coil packs I may well take you up on your offer & do them myself

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

What age is the car?

Beechdale had to order a coil pack that I bought from them so bear that in mind

JGM

CharlieWhiskey

It's a 96 UK Turbo Wagon, they should have the dammed things ready to fit tomorrow as I asked them to do it two weeks ago. The bulletin only arrived on Saturday, so I've been told.

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

So the buliten was letting you know they had arrived?

I have a 96 Wagon too so fitting is no trouble.. etc

JGM

CharlieWhiskey

The bulletin is a Subaru Technical Bulletin or summat like that, which Beechdales have apparently recieved, about not needing to change coil packs when the fault is caused by some sensor?

I will ring them in the morning to find out the full facts & I will post them on here.

I must have seen you about the place, I work down London Road & live in Chellaston, mine is a scruffy red one, but hopefully not so scruffy after 2 weeks in the bodyshop!

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

I work in Sinfin lane and stay in Hilton in the week.. live and come from Kent at the weekends.

DGM Wagon... with gold 17inch speedlines

Mine used to start on a damp morning and sound like it was running on 3cylinders and be under powered until warm..

Not had a wet enough morning since to be sure it has gone but the car runs much better and a miss fire at full throttle in first has disappeared..

Interested to know about the sensor though.

Perhaps they know what they are talking about.

JGM

CharlieWhiskey

Exactly that, though I've not noticed it missfiring at other times Michelle said it did.

CharlieWhiskey

Beechdale have finally got around to looking at the car & reckon it is a O2 sensor fault???

Part is now on order, but we will wait & see if it cures the damp starting probs

Chris.Palmer

Hmmm, my money is on coil packs.

Let us know how it goes.

Chris

Jolly Green Monster 2

02 Sensor is Lambda sensor in down pipe yes?

How much do they want for one?

I still think it is the coil packs but interested as mine could be the same....

Only had one damp morning since replacing the coil packs and all was well but was it damp enough?

JGM

Chris.Palmer

INMHO,

If it was the Lambda - You'd expect poor running under the following conditions:
a) mis-reading lambda during warm-up - but fine later on harder run - & idles fine when guaranteed hot (this could be due to the lambda sensor heater element failing)
b) complete mis-reading lambda - at all times - even after good harder run when guaranteed hot - poor idle

It could be the Coolant Temp Sensor - but under these conditions usually when cold/warming - the radiator fans go balistic.

If idle is fine when hot - idle solenoid is unlikely too.

That only really leaves the MAF & coil packs.

If its the MAF then you would get problems driving at higher revs, but more unlikely on earlier models at idle.

Admittedly if coil palckd were REALLY completely shagged you'd probably get a misfire when under high load too.

I still think its the packs...

If replacing spark-plug & then reducing gaps to .6 - .7 mm shows an improvement - then I think that seals it - Coil Packs.

Chris

Jolly Green Monster 2

I am still not 100% happy with my Lambda readings...

Coils have improved the car no end and the miss fire in first has gone..... it pulls a lot harder now in all gears etc..

Tickover still occasionally drops to 600rpm when hot.. never when cold..

My Dawes AFR.. start the car and blank.. drive and car is nearly at normal water temp and red light flashes on occasionally..

normal water temp and after and the blue light is illuminated at WOT.. perfect.. but sit at 70mph or above in 5th and then try WOT and it under reads.. and becomes useless as a check...

JGM

CharlieWhiskey

My damp starting problems are classic HT breakdown & tracking symptoms. As soon as it is warm enough to dry out it is fine.

No problems with idle once warm.

Furthermore if it is frozen solid I have no problem either - thats because ice is not as bad as damp for HT tracking.

Thats why I think its the insulation on the coil packs which is going.

As for the O2 sensor, they reckon that has come up as faulty on the diagnostics but I ahven't noticed anything which would point to that, what would be the symptoms?

[Edited by CharlieWhiskey - 2/26/2003 9:49:35 AM]

MorayMackenzie

I would ask for the original lambda sensor from them when you pick it up.

Jolly Green Monster 2

Very good point that Moray!

I think Chris.Palmer describes the Lambda sensor failure sumptoms above.

JGM

CharlieWhiskey

Good point, even if it is knackered its more use for blocking up that hole than an offcut bolt on cars that dont use the Lambda

Jolly Green Monster 2

Proves they changed it too and when it has no effect you can either sell the new one or return it...

Still recon it will be the coil packs.. happy to help you change them or change them for you..

JGM

CharlieWhiskey

Thanks Mate, I will see if I have the same probs, I'm sure there will be plenty of cold damp mornings, especially parked here where the 'local conditions' means my car gets the worst of that in the morning.

As I plan to get rid of it this year I want to at least get it to a saleable condition.

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

Upgrading or going elsewhere??

Mine is hear to stay with 120,000miles on the clock not must point selling it..

The chassis seems rather resistant to corrosion so wonder how many engines I can get to a body?

JGM

CharlieWhiskey

It depends on how much money I have left over, if any?

I fancy a Legacy B4 RSK, or an STi Wagon. I may even go for the 'Trackday Car' option and buy summat small & boring to get to work in

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

I have thought about the track day option but the wife said only if I sell the bike... no no no..

Also I don't think I could leave a nice car behind and take something sensible... I'd be always reaching for the faster keys..

B4 meet this Sunday in Stoke I believe.. I know no more than that but somebody on here might know more if you wanted to check out lots of them...

STi wagon is a nice car.. too...

JGM

CharlieWhiskey

I was gonna go to it, I recommended the venue to them, but we have our own meet at Sawley at the same time

It would have been nice to see a few of them & meet the owners & maybe even blag a ride

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

oops... sorry I reminded you about it then mate.

JGM

CharlieWhiskey

Well at last, after months of trying to tell Beechdale Subaru(Derby) what I wanted replacing, they finally submitted and fitted a new sey of coil packs to my MY96 wagon which has approx 97k on it.

WOW what a difference! it pulls much better, its smoother and quieter, it doesnt hesitate at all and it runs fine in the cold and wet

I knoew that was the problem, partially due to the excellent advice on here, I just didnt expect THAT much of a difference

Thanks to everyone who told me I was right to diagnose it and no thanks to Beechdale for not doing it the first and second time I asked them to!

JGM, thanks for the offer mate, but got it done at same time as other stuff.

[Edited by CharlieWhiskey - 5/24/2003 3:44:17 AM]

Chris.Palmer

Had same problem.

Dealers go by THE MANUAL & THE MANUAL does not mention the fact that they crack.

My Dealer seemed honestly surprised when I showed them the cracks in mine after they had supposedly checked them!

Glad its sorted m8.

CharlieWhiskey

Yep they tried to persuade me it was very expensive and did not need doing, but when they put a techy on the phone to me and I explained all the symptoms to him he agreed it was likely to be the problem.

Fact is it has been on the diagnostic tester at least twice to find out what was wrong and it doesnt detect something as simple as a naff HT circuit (plus the problem disappears when it is warm as the cracks dry out) Try starting it on a cold damp morning and it is obviously a HT problem: Lumpy tickover, miss-fire, hesitation and generally sounding like a bag of spanners!

Someone told me ages ago that it had a slight miss-fire, but I just thought they were not used to the 'boxer beat', but now it is cured I can tell what they meant, it sounds a lot smoother than beforehand, even when it was warm and seemingly running well.

Most take it out for a drive

[Edited by CharlieWhiskey - 5/24/2003 12:49:09 PM]

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

When I replaced mimne the clutch couldn't hand the extra power...

Now changed that too..

Glad you got it sorted..

I never know how I feel about Beechdale to be honest.. and I got annoyed when they quoted my £500 to do a job just because it was not on the service shedule.. when I then said I was going else where as I had been quoted £300 plus vat they changed there tuen and offered to do it for £300... strange..

JGM

CharlieWhiskey

Went out yesterday on a little recce around the North York Moors

The car seems to pull MUCH better in the higher gears all the way from 3500-6500, both myself & Scoobabe (who used to have a WRX-RA) were amazed at the difference.

As for Beechdales, they seem to go down in my estimations on every visit, pity TSL are not a little more 'local'