850cc injectors
26 November 2002, 01:54 PM
#1
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I need to uprate my injectors as i only have 380's at the moment, 850cc injectors are the same price as 550's - my car is putting out 333 BHP at present - are 850's overkill (i am aiming for 400BHP) and will i have any issues with idle etc
26 November 2002, 02:59 PM
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IMO, 550's will be marginal for a "real" 400bhp.
You should be able to get a reasonable idle, if the person re-mapping knows what he's doing.
Mark.
You should be able to get a reasonable idle, if the person re-mapping knows what he's doing.
Mark.
26 November 2002, 06:44 PM
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My 550s at standard fuel pressure are reaching 82% IDC at only 1.3 bar boost at 11.1:1 AFR average, and I have no illusions that I am anywhere over 350 BHP.
26 November 2002, 06:59 PM
#7
with extra fuel pressure 550s should in theory be good enough for 400hp without going static. I will be having both sizes flow tested next week, so will get some numbers for real flow at 4bar pressure.
Paul
Paul
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26 November 2002, 07:54 PM
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Thanks for the input guys, will be interesting to see what result you get Pavlo. Was gonna get 660 injectors but to get them that drop straight in to phase 1 fuel rails costs double the 550s and 850s!!!!!! I want to get rid of my regulator, its a bl00dy nightmare but then it is rising rate 
550s would definitely do at present but i want to be future proof 
550s would definitely do at present but i want to be future proof
26 November 2002, 10:32 PM
#11
I should have a set of 550s available, used, but cleaned and checked. They fit phase 2 rails, as you know the phase 1 fitment are more expensive.
I know what these so called "tuning" companies are doing, and they are a little sly, lets put it that way. Blitz injectors can be had at a good price from the US it seems.
Paul
I know what these so called "tuning" companies are doing, and they are a little sly, lets put it that way. Blitz injectors can be had at a good price from the US it seems.
Paul
26 November 2002, 10:40 PM
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I know been looking for ages to get injectors to fit phase 1 rails (not great mechanically and unsure of fitting phase 2 rails) looking at about £100 per injector + posting from AUS but some things have to be done 
been looking for ages to get injectors to fit phase 1 rails (not great mechanically and unsure of fitting phase 2 rails) looking at about £100 per injector + posting from AUS but some things have to be done
26 November 2002, 10:47 PM
#14
I think you'll find them no different from the phase 2 fitment ones, except you have to do "something" different for phase 2 rails.
I have various people wanting 550s for phase 1 fitment, in fact enough to make getting some custom parts made to facilitate fitment of said injectors into phase 1 rails.
I meant to do it a while ago, but was more trouble than it was worth at the time, can't promise anything anything!
Paul
I have various people wanting 550s for phase 1 fitment, in fact enough to make getting some custom parts made to facilitate fitment of said injectors into phase 1 rails.
I meant to do it a while ago, but was more trouble than it was worth at the time, can't promise anything anything!
Paul
26 November 2002, 10:54 PM
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Yeah, i sent u a mail regarding this at the time Pavlo, u replied but didn't seem to take the idea any further if you are gonna rekindle this soon i may be interested (have a few other things in the pipeline that necessitate new injectors quite soon) 
if you are gonna rekindle this soon i may be interested (have a few other things in the pipeline that necessitate new injectors quite soon)
26 November 2002, 11:33 PM
#16
Sure I will investigate feasability of the conversion, pricing and availability. It will probably add £20-30 to the cost, due to reduced volumes of the parts. Last time I had enough made for 13 sets of injectors, which pushed the price down.
If it's no go I will let you (all) know within the next week or so.
Paul
If it's no go I will let you (all) know within the next week or so.
Paul
27 November 2002, 09:11 AM
#19
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Paul -
We spoke via e-mail about 550cc Phase 1 injectors recently - if you are going ahead with this, post up some details, and I may well join up.
Still trying to get some answers from our Japanese friends....
We spoke via e-mail about 550cc Phase 1 injectors recently - if you are going ahead with this, post up some details, and I may well join up.
Still trying to get some answers from our Japanese friends....
27 November 2002, 10:41 AM
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Andy... Ill sort you something ASAP... Im working on this at the moment.
David
David
27 November 2002, 11:09 AM
#22
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lol @ AndrewC - yes I am, and not just because of you ! YHM, btw....
Back on topic, if I was to consider 850cc injectors, are there any real issues with getting that large an injector running smoothly on my car ? I'm not looking to have some kind of fuel spitting, idle like a dog car.
Back on topic, if I was to consider 850cc injectors, are there any real issues with getting that large an injector running smoothly on my car ? I'm not looking to have some kind of fuel spitting, idle like a dog car.
28 November 2002, 12:02 AM
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barry 850cc are a bit off an over kill. i think the best would be to get some slightly bigger than the 550cc ones. i have got a set of 560cc evo ones if anyone would want to make them fit a scooby.
what do they do in the US. for 375bhp at 3bar base fuel pressure my 560cc injectors maxed out. that is an evo mind you.
for 400-450 on an evo you can use 700cc and if they struggle you can always raise the pressure to 3.5 or 4bar and that should do it.
i can't see the scoob being much different.
so probably the 550cc will provide 400bhp but at a higher fuel pressure. i am sure andy/pavlo/JB will be able to work the maths out to see how much you need to raise it by.
i know RC run evos at 400bhp with fuel pressure raised to 4bar or even more
using standard injectors.
sam
what do they do in the US. for 375bhp at 3bar base fuel pressure my 560cc injectors maxed out. that is an evo mind you.
for 400-450 on an evo you can use 700cc and if they struggle you can always raise the pressure to 3.5 or 4bar and that should do it.
i can't see the scoob being much different.
so probably the 550cc will provide 400bhp but at a higher fuel pressure. i am sure andy/pavlo/JB will be able to work the maths out to see how much you need to raise it by.
i know RC run evos at 400bhp with fuel pressure raised to 4bar or even more
using standard injectors.sam
28 November 2002, 01:47 AM
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Sam,
When you say "max'd out" is that at 100% IDC ? What AFR.
If you want to use 550cc injectors, and run a safe AFR, at circa 85% IDC, you will need to run 4bar fuel pressure at atmospheric.
RC were using the FSE Power Boost Valve to solve the fuelling problem
Oh, and an up rated pump too.....
Mark.
When you say "max'd out" is that at 100% IDC ? What AFR.
If you want to use 550cc injectors, and run a safe AFR, at circa 85% IDC, you will need to run 4bar fuel pressure at atmospheric.
RC were using the FSE Power Boost Valve to solve the fuelling problem
Oh, and an up rated pump too.....Mark.
28 November 2002, 09:50 AM
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Sam, i kinda thought they were big but companies like Power Enterprise charge double the price of 550s and 850s for an in between 660, i thought 550 would be pushing it and the next size at a reasonable price was 850. Haven't seen 740s available for phase 1 engines. Maybe i'll just wait for the evo V11
edited to ask how's ur car going mate?
[Edited by BazH - 11/28/2002 9:54:30 AM]
edited to ask how's ur car going mate?
[Edited by BazH - 11/28/2002 9:54:30 AM]
28 November 2002, 10:04 AM
#29
850s are overkill in my opinion if your making an every day motor.
First of all it's very rare that people are going from a standard motor to a monster that needs massive injectors.
Second, 550s with increase fuel pressure have considerable capacity, 400 would be the max at about 90%idc which is manageable.
Are you really going to build a 400hp motor? That's a shed load of power!
However, if you really feel you need to, then there are 680s available in phase 1 (possibly phase2) and 740 nismo injectors for phase 2.
I am sourcing more injectors now, but all the 850s are spoken for.
My advice: Get your enigne sorted, put in 550s with an adjustable reg, and see how you go. The demand for 550s very high, and I can always point you to someone that would buy them. If you get them s/h then I think you could get your money back and spend on 740s or whatever.
paul
First of all it's very rare that people are going from a standard motor to a monster that needs massive injectors.
Second, 550s with increase fuel pressure have considerable capacity, 400 would be the max at about 90%idc which is manageable.
Are you really going to build a 400hp motor? That's a shed load of power!
However, if you really feel you need to, then there are 680s available in phase 1 (possibly phase2) and 740 nismo injectors for phase 2.
I am sourcing more injectors now, but all the 850s are spoken for.
My advice: Get your enigne sorted, put in 550s with an adjustable reg, and see how you go. The demand for 550s very high, and I can always point you to someone that would buy them. If you get them s/h then I think you could get your money back and spend on 740s or whatever.
paul
28 November 2002, 07:04 PM
#30
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hi mark
at 360bhp using the standard fuel pressure reg and an uprated pump, i was getting 93%IDC at 0.78lambda @6800revs.
that is at 1,6bar. going to 1.8bar i reached 102% IDC according to my map that i have just looked at.
now with 380bhp running 680cc hks injectors, and HKS fpr, set to give around 3bar with the vac hose off and around 2.2bar with it on. i am getting 66% IDC at 6800revs same lambda.
i hope this helps but i can see the two engines using a much different BSFC?
sam
at 360bhp using the standard fuel pressure reg and an uprated pump, i was getting 93%IDC at 0.78lambda @6800revs.
that is at 1,6bar. going to 1.8bar i reached 102% IDC according to my map that i have just looked at.
now with 380bhp running 680cc hks injectors, and HKS fpr, set to give around 3bar with the vac hose off and around 2.2bar with it on. i am getting 66% IDC at 6800revs same lambda.
i hope this helps but i can see the two engines using a much different BSFC?
sam