Engine Dimensions Dilemmas
14 November 2002, 01:31 AM
#1
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Ahoy there...
Brief life history and summary...
Ex-student, no job, wants a scooby.. hmmm bit of a problem
Soooo, i've decided to transplant a scooby lump in2 my trusty Pug 205 GTi.. and did i mention with the whole AWD system?
My problem is b4 I set about such a stupid task, I need to know how physically big the engine is, height width etc.. and does the gearbox bolt on2 the back of the engine then drop the drive down to a transversely mounted diff?
1 more thing, does a limited slip diff actually replace the original diff(s) entirely?
So, pretty please, if some1 could wander to their chariot wiv a tape measure I would be very pleased.
Ta very much
Nige
Impreza engine in a Pug... doc always said I was a special kinda lad
Brief life history and summary...
Ex-student, no job, wants a scooby.. hmmm bit of a problem
Soooo, i've decided to transplant a scooby lump in2 my trusty Pug 205 GTi.. and did i mention with the whole AWD system?
My problem is b4 I set about such a stupid task, I need to know how physically big the engine is, height width etc.. and does the gearbox bolt on2 the back of the engine then drop the drive down to a transversely mounted diff?
1 more thing, does a limited slip diff actually replace the original diff(s) entirely?
So, pretty please, if some1 could wander to their chariot wiv a tape measure I would be very pleased.
Ta very much
Nige
Impreza engine in a Pug... doc always said I was a special kinda lad
14 November 2002, 03:08 PM
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May I suggest that you hunt down the demo drivetrain that Subaru shows at car shows. Or at least photos of it. That ought to solve a lot of your problems.
That is a very ambitious project. You will most likely want the entire WRX drivetrain and then just figure a way to mount the suspension + hubs together shortening shafts as necessary. All that if and only if the engine will fit between the wheel wells.
As soon as I replace my wreck I'll have 2 complete spare drivetrains. I too am looking for a good econobox to stuff them in.
-Michael
That is a very ambitious project. You will most likely want the entire WRX drivetrain and then just figure a way to mount the suspension + hubs together shortening shafts as necessary. All that if and only if the engine will fit between the wheel wells.
As soon as I replace my wreck I'll have 2 complete spare drivetrains. I too am looking for a good econobox to stuff them in.
-Michael
14 November 2002, 06:14 PM
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Thanks a lot 4 the info mike... think i've got all the braking, hubs & suspension sorted out.. even a custom exhaust.. think i might just go down 2 my local scooby dealer with a tape measure and a smile
Nige
Nige
14 November 2002, 06:22 PM
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you may find the engine is just too wide to fit between your inner wings. also, your bulkhead and transmission tunnel would require serious mods, as the box on these in longitudinal rather than transverse like the pug box.
the front diff is in the front end of the box, driveshafts just come out of each side immediately behind the rear of the engine.
one advantage of these engines is that they are not very deep, i.e. front to rear of engine.
to be honest, its a bl**dy project and a half.
what about the welding of the scooby inner wings to your pug, rear strut turrets, link arm mount points etc etc
list goes on.....
good luck though
ian
the front diff is in the front end of the box, driveshafts just come out of each side immediately behind the rear of the engine.
one advantage of these engines is that they are not very deep, i.e. front to rear of engine.
to be honest, its a bl**dy project and a half.
what about the welding of the scooby inner wings to your pug, rear strut turrets, link arm mount points etc etc
list goes on.....
good luck though
ian
14 November 2002, 06:28 PM
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Cheers 4 the advice mate.. scooby inner wings is a very good idea! I was planning to cut the sh*t outta the bulkhead and then rollcage the whole car to strengthen it.. 205's develop chassis warp even with the mild 1.9 engine! The rear diff can be mounted where the spare wheel usually lives.. mechanically wise I think I can pull it off ( Dad is a trained mechanic and specialist engine!), got all the tools to hand.. methinks the wiring is gonna be the hardest part.. but whens it done all's welcome to come n view ..
I think the 900KG lightness is gonna affect the 0-60 time
Nige
I think the 900KG lightness is gonna affect the 0-60 time
Nige
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14 November 2002, 07:59 PM
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Don't forget that you need a minimum clearance plus servicing between the heads and the fenders. You don't want a Taurus SHO servicing problem where they had to remove the engine to change spark plugs. At worse you could drill holes in the fenders and put in rubber plugs.
-Michael
-Michael
14 November 2002, 10:15 PM
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think youll find that once you bolt all the stuff in and strengthen the 205 accordingly you will find that it weighs more than the 1270KG impreza.
Mine only weighs 1200 as it is.
Mine only weighs 1200 as it is.
18 November 2002, 01:04 AM
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Soz 4 late reply, just got back from the RAC Rally, came close 2 getting squashed by the rolling Evo!!!
Could still do with the measurements of the engine still.
P.S Reason I'm doing this is, its basically the cheapest way i can c of gettin some real performance! + I might actually learn something about mechanics
Could still do with the measurements of the engine still.
P.S Reason I'm doing this is, its basically the cheapest way i can c of gettin some real performance! + I might actually learn something about mechanics
18 November 2002, 11:30 AM
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Location: Leeds - It was 562.4bhp@28psi on Optimax, How much closer to 600 with race fuel and a bigger turbo?
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You wont get performance... youll get a car that doesnt handle or accelerate..
If your going to do it stick a 2.0 turbo in it.. or a 1.9 with twin 45's or throttlebodys... but an impreza engine is a no go.
Sweepstake on who this is?
If your going to do it stick a 2.0 turbo in it.. or a 1.9 with twin 45's or throttlebodys... but an impreza engine is a no go.
Sweepstake on who this is?
18 November 2002, 01:12 PM
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If youre serious about sticking in the Scooby Gubins, you might be better off space framing the front, from the bulkhead fwd.
This way you can have the engine bay narrow enough so that it doesnt extend past the edge of the bulkhead but position the frames so you can get at the bits.
However in a car as small as a pug it might be easier if you installed an inline engine rather than a boxer. Smothing like a cosy turbo and 4 x 4 box.
I'm doing the same with a talbot sunbeam and this is the easiest way. Had thought about subaru bits bit you need fairly wide chassis legs etc..
Good luck. Its a helluva job to do.
This way you can have the engine bay narrow enough so that it doesnt extend past the edge of the bulkhead but position the frames so you can get at the bits.
However in a car as small as a pug it might be easier if you installed an inline engine rather than a boxer. Smothing like a cosy turbo and 4 x 4 box.
I'm doing the same with a talbot sunbeam and this is the easiest way. Had thought about subaru bits bit you need fairly wide chassis legs etc..
Good luck. Its a helluva job to do.
18 November 2002, 01:34 PM
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Cheers 4 all the advice people, never found such a good forum b4. Having a major rethink at the mo, basically I believe perhaps the scooby lump is too wide. Heres my aims, if any1 has got any suggestions please feel free..
1. Preserve the go-kart handling.
2. Sub 6sec 0-60 times
3. Ideally 4 wheel drive
Basically I wanna build a pug that goes and sounds something like a rally car, but not on a rally car budget!
Thought about the cossie lump, I know its been done b4, then theres always an Audi drive-train.. I don't wanna go down the same route as most pug tuners and just lump in an mi16 engine!
1. Preserve the go-kart handling.
2. Sub 6sec 0-60 times
3. Ideally 4 wheel drive
Basically I wanna build a pug that goes and sounds something like a rally car, but not on a rally car budget!
Thought about the cossie lump, I know its been done b4, then theres always an Audi drive-train.. I don't wanna go down the same route as most pug tuners and just lump in an mi16 engine!
18 November 2002, 01:48 PM
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I've always like the idea of transplanting the whole Scooby drivetrain into something else.
I just settled for the engine and then added a chargecooler.
I think that's enough for the moment in a 650kg rear wheel/engined car!
Rich
http://www.ricola.co.uk (Scooby powered Porsche 356 speedster replica)
I just settled for the engine and then added a chargecooler.
I think that's enough for the moment in a 650kg rear wheel/engined car!
Rich
http://www.ricola.co.uk (Scooby powered Porsche 356 speedster replica)
18 November 2002, 02:02 PM
#18
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It's obvious - put the engine where the back 2 seats are, ala Renault Clio V6.
Used to own a 205 1.9, knew someone who'd put the 4x4 drivetrain from a Cossie in it, so it's possible ....
Paul Houbart
Gecko Motorsport
Used to own a 205 1.9, knew someone who'd put the 4x4 drivetrain from a Cossie in it, so it's possible ....
Paul Houbart
Gecko Motorsport
19 November 2002, 11:32 AM
#19
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ROTFLMFAO - "I'm a bit simple, and I want to learn about mechanics by transplanting a scooby AWD drivetrain and engine into a 205" - i think that could summarise the above
more than a bit simple, bloody mad!
Stop taking the pi55 and tell us who you are?
[Edited by P20SPD - 11/19/2002 11:50:28 AM]
more than a bit simple, bloody mad!
Stop taking the pi55 and tell us who you are?
[Edited by P20SPD - 11/19/2002 11:50:28 AM]
19 November 2002, 11:54 AM
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I've always like the idea of transplanting the whole Scooby drivetrain into something else.
This lot have already done it
I think they may have made a good job.
19 November 2002, 12:44 PM
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Yeah, I've seen the Delfino before. It was developed from an Alfa 33 based kit called the Minari.
They haven't updated the web site for years and I heard they were having trouble sourcing the drivetrain from Subaru...
They haven't updated the web site for years and I heard they were having trouble sourcing the drivetrain from Subaru...
19 November 2002, 12:45 PM
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Yeah, I've seen the Delfino before. It was developed from an Alfa 33 based kit called the Minari.
They haven't updated the web site for years and I heard they were having trouble sourcing the drivetrain from Subaru...
They haven't updated the web site for years and I heard they were having trouble sourcing the drivetrain from Subaru...
19 November 2002, 01:28 PM
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Had a moment of inspiration.. the Pulsar GTi-R lump should fit straight in without many probs... and its just as quick as the scooby + its cheaper. Thought about the mid-engine idea, but its gonna cause so many problems and I haven't got the t16 sized budget.
Do i stand to make any $$$ on this sweepstake?
Do i stand to make any $$$ on this sweepstake?
19 November 2002, 01:31 PM
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If you havent got a t16 budget then you havent got a sunny gtir budget...
Assuming you are ok at wiring it will take you at least a week to strip the loom to make an engine only loom... and then probably the same to do the 1.9 gti loom and join them up...
David
Assuming you are ok at wiring it will take you at least a week to strip the loom to make an engine only loom... and then probably the same to do the 1.9 gti loom and join them up...
David
19 November 2002, 02:51 PM
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Bearing in mind a Pug T16 costs at least 40,000 euros, and there are only 35 left in existance, i think the Pulsar is more affordable at this point in time.. just a little bit.. or do i just stop all this silly talk and buy a racing integra typr r.. only 11K+VAT new!
19 November 2002, 03:04 PM
#29
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I still think making a 205 T16 clone would be easier - you've got plenty of space back there, and fabricating new prop shafts/transmission tunnels etc etc isn't a (relatively) difficult job.
Surely easier than trying to fit an engine into an engine bay that is too small !
Surely easier than trying to fit an engine into an engine bay that is too small !