Depends on how rich you want to run it and how you hold the boost at the top.

At 1.5 bar midrange dropping to 1.4 at 6000 and 1.3 at 7000 RPM, with uprated fuel pump and lambda voltage of 870mV my 440s were >85% from 5500 RPM upwards and the lambda voltage was dropping to 850mV at 7000 RPM with 100% IDC.

Now running 1.4 bar peak/1.3 bar held to 6400 RPM after which it drops to 1.25 bar. With 550s and lambda voltage holding between 880 and 890 all the way up the maximum IDC is 78%. Need to confirm with the wideband at the weekend what the actual AFR is. It actually feels quicker than it did with the 440s running mad at the top end, but that may be subjective as I have dumbed down the midrange boost from previously. Still some work to do on the map - the damn APS induction kit and 550s make getting a fuel map a lot of "fun" from a base map. The 550s' effect on the fuel map is far more irritating than I would have imagined - not just slice off x% fuel by any stretch of the imagination - varies depending on the area of the map.

Note I am running the standard regulator. I would steer clear of a rising rate unless you are getting your worst enemy to do the mapping as they will not be a friend afterwards.

If you are buying injectors why not just buy 550s or bigger if you have grander plans - note that I would only need another 7% IDC on 550s to really thing about going bigger - if you ran 1.5 bar to the top you might get near to running 550s at 85%.

[Edited by john banks - 11/7/2002 9:23:57 PM]

 

as title, on a modded ej20 turbo, what sort of boost are 440's and uprated regulator safe for?

will they fuel good for 1.5bar+ ??

cheers
ian

 

thanks john.

i will be running quite high boost, prob 1.7 dropping to 1.5/1.6.

i am using andy forrest's chargecooler, also cossie pistons, modded heads etc.
will also be doing the front entry mod, also up-pipe too. forgot to mention that i have already fitted a walbro 255 ltr/hr pump, and as mentioned, have an fse fuel reg in the garage too.
reason i asked about the 440's is that they will be cheaper, due to cheaper base map alterations too.

paul (pavlo) mentioned that the 550's were a bit of a pain on davids car, and more fettling is required.

do you think i would be best however going for 550's though?

cheers
ian

 

oh yeah, regulator issue.... is the fse just an adjustable base pressure, or is it rising rate?
then again, do i really need it?

 

Depends on which one you have re the regulator.

If I were you I would go for bigger than 550s. You would overwhelm 550s with what you are planning from the sounds of it.

Maybe other interested parties who run things leaner would disagree. Will be able to tell you some figures off the WB when I get around to doing it.

I am also uncertain if a standard TD05 will hold together at those levels of boost. You don't want an exploding compressor wheel I know it is robust, but 1.6 bar at the top means you are talking 400 BHP, and the TD05 is not capable of it really comfortably. Sorry to potentially add to your expenses. Have you got a gearbox lined up? Will the standard diffs take it?

I think you will be looking at a new MAF sensor too, and there are saturation points in the ECUs which would appreciate some creative work. If you are using a MAF based ECU then definitely steer clear of a rising rate regulator if you want to actually *control* your fuelling rather than kind of throw it in and hope.

[Edited by john banks - 11/7/2002 9:40:26 PM]

 

think i may forget the regulator then.

the gearbox is a close ratio one, suspect its from an ra model like andy's due to the rediculously short gearing. it has done circa 30000miles now, but dont know how much stick it will take in the long run. clutch is ap, so that should be fine.
i know what you mean though, just endless costs

agree about the td05, but im thinking of a larger turbo, as i can put up with the lag due to the gearbox once on the move, and think the td05 may hold it back in the scheme of things.

may have to look into larger than 550's then. i think harvey uses 740's on his?

its just bugging me now, cant run over 1bar at the moment due to injectors, but not sure which way i want to go regarding injectors.

as for the richness, to answer your earlier question, i think about 880-900max target. as you mention, some do lean off slightly, but dont want to risk it.

ian

 

p.s. i use the apexi avc-r boost controller, and s-afc fuel controller. although at the moment, due to low boost, fuel controller has not been altered.

 

fuel controller uses maf control

 

550s and increased pressure probably good for about 400hp at non-critical duty cycles.

Unless you get that turbo hybrided or whatever, you're not going to be getting massive power on 1.5bar at the top end. On davids car, 1.5bar at 6500rpm ish equated to 345hp.

Also it could be a nice idea not to bend the rods.

550s and adjustable (non-rising rate) regulator probably the best bet. Unless you buy some Nismo 740cc injectors for around £550 I think the next jump that can be had for more like £270 would be 850 injectors.

I could supply a fuel map suitable for 550s, which would be close enough, and then you could fine tune with S-AFC.

Paul

 

yeah, turbo is next step...of many

i reckon thats it then, 550cc's with a base map from you paul. then set up on the rollers with apexi.

yhm
ian

 

Watching this thread with interest - planning on going down the Apexi Power FC route (same as UkLegacyT's Apexi setup but with more options), on my STI 1 with TD05. Was contemplating injector upgrade ( 740's probably ), as well as usual fuelling increases etc etc.

Questions about conrod's are a worry, though !

 

As John says if its a rising rate one it will be far more trouble then its worth, If it not then use it, they usually come set at 3bar base pressure but if memory serves right can be adjusted up to 6bar (I have heard of one tuning company actually doing this).

I think you'll be fine with the 550s. My cars being mapped tomorrow, 1.7bar running 550s. I'll let you know how I get on.

Oh... you can also get 660s... but a tad expensive.

 

as paul has mentioned my car runs 550's... with std td05 (so far)

I use phase 2 rails parallel feed and an escort cosworth fuel pressure reg.. which you can alter the base fuel pressure on...

either way you could up the pressure on the 440's and do it that way or you could get 550's for **** all..

As for turbo's Ill be running circa 400 on std gearbox and internals at the next rr day.. Touch wood...

Hope he doesnt mind me saying this.... but drop mark an email about td05's before you do anything... and watch for New DIY Front Entry threads in Drivetrain...

Also may ask about 18g Compressor wheels?? Mark??

If im allowed by mark Ill post pics..

David

 

David -

Plenty of interest in the DIY Front Entry project, I expect : I gather some changes to the steering fluid lines is requires, got any details on this ?

And I'm sure it's been asked before, but where's the best place to source the injectors from ? I can get them from Japan at trade price, but would rather source them in this country to ensure fitment.

 

Yep... come on David.... DIY front entry TD05. .

Tony.

 

It will be starting very soon... I'm going to look at a later model power steering pump for mine... and pipework as it bends a different way... may be worth looking at the std water pipe across the block... may just chop and weld for a bit extra room.

David

 

For injectors speak to pavlo.

David

 

David,

I'd say the power steering is a good idea... i've looked at my brother-in-laws Catalunya (MY97) and it seems a straight forward swap. With regrads to the water pipe.... this doesn't appear to be any different between mine and his so may not be worth messing with (inless your inlet pipe going to be significatly bigger than the standard MY97-00). What sort of materials are you looking at for the inlet manifold spacers? And what height... 20mm?

Tony.

Also for us still on phase 1 rails... will these need any mods?

 

my inlet pipe is going to be about 3" dia.

phase 1 rails will need modifing so the fuel lines arent in the way..

Nylon to start with + possibly ally plates.. Circa 20mm

David

 

Don't ask me why but i'd go for nylon.

Fuel rail wise i'd best get some phase two's then... with the added bonus of 440cc injectors . These should be ok for my plans.... no higher than 1.3 bar.... target of 325 bhp tops (with all the planned mods are done in the distant distant future ).

Tony.

Oooops thread high jack in progress.... i'd better get my coat .