Worried about my Clutch
31 October 2002, 08:51 AM
#1
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Ok, last 2 days noticed some strange clutch like smells when stationery, but no real big power starts.
This morning, about 5 times whilst teasing a Octavia RS, in 4th gear about 4000rpm and foot down, hit full boost (no overboost), revs rise normally, then rise rapidly and then drop back (not fuel cut) smoothly whilst my foot is still planted to the floor.
To me it seemed very much like the clutch was slipping, but I would not expect it in 4th!
I was then bracing myself for problems setting off at a set of traffic lights.
1st gear, moderate set off, ok.
2nd gear, moderate again, ok.
so next set of lights.
1st gear, hard set off 4500rpm, ok
2nd gear, foot to floor, ok
3rd gear, ditto
4th gear, foot to floor, the slip again
It then would not repeat it again when my work colleague was in the car, and i asked him to observe a few things!
Very confused as to what it could be
Steven
This morning, about 5 times whilst teasing a Octavia RS, in 4th gear about 4000rpm and foot down, hit full boost (no overboost), revs rise normally, then rise rapidly and then drop back (not fuel cut) smoothly whilst my foot is still planted to the floor.
To me it seemed very much like the clutch was slipping, but I would not expect it in 4th!
I was then bracing myself for problems setting off at a set of traffic lights.
1st gear, moderate set off, ok.
2nd gear, moderate again, ok.
so next set of lights.
1st gear, hard set off 4500rpm, ok
2nd gear, foot to floor, ok
3rd gear, ditto
4th gear, foot to floor, the slip again
It then would not repeat it again when my work colleague was in the car, and i asked him to observe a few things!
Very confused as to what it could be
Steven
31 October 2002, 09:09 AM
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Sounds like your clutch. They will often slip in a higher gear first. Just be nice to your gearbox when the new clutch goes in.
The other option is to turn the boost down or use part throttle, which will not be popular but will keep you mobile until you can get the clutch done.
I am coming round to the idea of running this setup at 1.2 bar flat up to the top to preserve the internals, turbo, gearbox, clutch but still make decent power.
I suspect that it would be far more reliable and still quite nice to drive. After all if you don't want to worry about it and just enjoy it... If we are worried about the conrods over 300 lbft. To get this car truly reliable to normal Subaru reliability would I believe need an uprated gearbox, clutch and internals.
[Edited by john banks - 10/31/2002 9:16:32 AM]
The other option is to turn the boost down or use part throttle, which will not be popular but will keep you mobile until you can get the clutch done.
I am coming round to the idea of running this setup at 1.2 bar flat up to the top to preserve the internals, turbo, gearbox, clutch but still make decent power.
I suspect that it would be far more reliable and still quite nice to drive. After all if you don't want to worry about it and just enjoy it... If we are worried about the conrods over 300 lbft. To get this car truly reliable to normal Subaru reliability would I believe need an uprated gearbox, clutch and internals.
[Edited by john banks - 10/31/2002 9:16:32 AM]
31 October 2002, 09:32 AM
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I know what you are saying John, but it is peaking at about 1.35 bar and settling and holding 1.25 bar.
Just did not expect it start to go so soon.
Suppose its the 313ftlb of torque that is doing it?
Will have to drive steady, as i cant afford a new clutch and gear set, unless Mark takes credit card
.
Suprised it does it in the higher gears, on 2 other cars, 106gti and civic vti, it was 2nd and 3rd that it started to slip.
Oh well, fingers crossed x
Best buy a banger just in case.
Just did not expect it start to go so soon.
Suppose its the 313ftlb of torque that is doing it?
Will have to drive steady, as i cant afford a new clutch and gear set, unless Mark takes credit card
.Suprised it does it in the higher gears, on 2 other cars, 106gti and civic vti, it was 2nd and 3rd that it started to slip.
Oh well, fingers crossed x
Best buy a banger just in case.
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31 October 2002, 11:08 AM
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My clutch did exactly the same thing
<horror story mode>
It lasted about a month after the first signs of slipping.
Then the car wouldn't go up hills
</horror story mode>
I was told that it was best get it done quickly, or risk graunching the flywheel.
Mine cost £270 inc. fitting and it's a good clutch for standard (or not too much above) power
<horror story mode>
It lasted about a month after the first signs of slipping.
Then the car wouldn't go up hills
</horror story mode>
I was told that it was best get it done quickly, or risk graunching the flywheel.
Mine cost £270 inc. fitting
and it's a good clutch for standard (or not too much above) power
31 October 2002, 11:28 AM
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Are you running 300+ torque through a std UK clutch? and you think it may be slipping? 
Those uprated clutches Mark sells must be doing a roaring trade!
Justin
Those uprated clutches Mark sells must be doing a roaring trade!
Justin
31 October 2002, 12:02 PM
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Did you do any full bore starts?
Before I fitted the bigger turbo and FMIC I tightened up my act with my cluth and gearbox usage in the hope of giving it every chance possible. How many miles does you present clutch have on it?
You know with this much torque that just one missed or over-rushed gearchange and your box could go straight away
?
I have missed one change since the big turbo went on and I thought I had done the 5th gear synchro as it wouldn't go into 5th gear until I stopped and turned the engine off and tried again. Been OK since, but I used to miss gears on the track quite often.
Before I fitted the bigger turbo and FMIC I tightened up my act with my cluth and gearbox usage in the hope of giving it every chance possible. How many miles does you present clutch have on it?
You know with this much torque that just one missed or over-rushed gearchange and your box could go straight away
?I have missed one change since the big turbo went on and I thought I had done the 5th gear synchro as it wouldn't go into 5th gear until I stopped and turned the engine off and tried again. Been OK since, but I used to miss gears on the track quite often.
31 October 2002, 12:58 PM
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Doesn't the car make more boost in 4th and 5th slightly and there is less chance of wheel slip in 4th and 5th so the stress is put on the clutch as it is the weakest part of the chain...
As the clutch is only just starting to go in the lower gears the slight not noticable give in the tyres and lower boost take some pressure off the clutch.. IMHO..
109,000miles and original clutch... touches big wooden desk many times..
JGM
As the clutch is only just starting to go in the lower gears the slight not noticable give in the tyres and lower boost take some pressure off the clutch.. IMHO..
109,000miles and original clutch... touches big wooden desk many times..
JGM
31 October 2002, 02:47 PM
#18
I guess this brings us back to the question "what power level is safe before things start to break?".
I can see a new uprated clutch on the way from Mark and then Mark will no doubt be penciling in a new gearbox for you
It's a slippery slope, especially if you now have to remember to be gentle in the first 2 gears and other compromises set in...
JMHO (wishing that I had the power to be able to consider these issues).
F
I can see a new uprated clutch on the way from Mark and then Mark will no doubt be penciling in a new gearbox for you
It's a slippery slope, especially if you now have to remember to be gentle in the first 2 gears and other compromises set in...
JMHO (wishing that I had the power to be able to consider these issues).
F
31 October 2002, 02:49 PM
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its cos you drive like a tit... 
David
Std Clutch
Std Box..
Leaking Cheap Gearbox Oil..
David
Std Clutch
Std Box..
Leaking Cheap Gearbox Oil..
31 October 2002, 03:28 PM
#20
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Yeah but your gear box is already half shagged
If i drive like a tit, say 32C, then, from what you say, you must drive like a 44GG
New clutch and flywheel will be on its way soon
Anyone got a paper round going?(need pennies from somewhere)
Steven
If i drive like a tit, say 32C, then, from what you say, you must drive like a 44GG
New clutch and flywheel will be on its way soon
Anyone got a paper round going?
(need pennies from somewhere)Steven
31 October 2002, 08:34 PM
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If your clutch is starting to slip you are always going to notice this more in 3rd or 4th gears.. that applies to any car not just Scoobs .... this is when the clutch is working hardest due to gearing/acceleration factors.
31 October 2002, 09:42 PM
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I've done around 60 - 70 full bore drag race starts on my standard clutch plus as many track day laps. It is only JUST up to the job though ! A few too many revs on take off and the rpm needle can bend itself around the stop
My fears are that fitting a heavy duty clutch will transmit more torque shock load through the drivetrain
This is displayed on my AP22 meter as spikes in G force. In a modified EVO recently with a twin plate clutch I recorded spikes of 2.5x the torque produced by the engine ie flywheel/crank inertia forces of iro 700lb-ft torque !! I think this will do more damage than a steady, say 350lb-ft.
I guess ideally we need a clutch that will 'just' hold 350 lb-ft and no more ???
My fears are that fitting a heavy duty clutch will transmit more torque shock load through the drivetrain
This is displayed on my AP22 meter as spikes in G force. In a modified EVO recently with a twin plate clutch I recorded spikes of 2.5x the torque produced by the engine
ie flywheel/crank inertia forces of iro 700lb-ft torque !! I think this will do more damage than a steady, say 350lb-ft.I guess ideally we need a clutch that will 'just' hold 350 lb-ft and no more ???
01 November 2002, 06:57 AM
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I recently went through the same - remapped fuelling/ignition, car went much better, clutch started slipping 5th gear during spool (makes for sh*te boost control!).
On replacement the original is OK (new OE one 30k km's ago - fitted free), it's just not up to the job. Mechanics reckoned deglazing *may* have helped.
I fitted a strongly sprung Sachs organic - gone are the days of dropping the clutch on launchs now, even the shocks on aggressive gear changes have increased. Makes car faster though
Don't forget to do the flywheel at the same time - I reduced the OE wheel to just under 8kg (original is 11.5
).
As a combination, the car is much nicer to drive - I can even accelerate from 65km/h in 5th now
Richard
On replacement the original is OK (new OE one 30k km's ago - fitted free), it's just not up to the job. Mechanics reckoned deglazing *may* have helped.
I fitted a strongly sprung Sachs organic - gone are the days of dropping the clutch on launchs now, even the shocks on aggressive gear changes have increased. Makes car faster though
Don't forget to do the flywheel at the same time - I reduced the OE wheel to just under 8kg (original is 11.5
).As a combination, the car is much nicer to drive - I can even accelerate from 65km/h in 5th now
Richard
