Andy.F

Adam, make no mistake, I would be expecting this to handle and stop better than it does just now and why not ? 50:50 weight distribution, active power distribution front to rear, no heavier than a MY02 or an EVO7 once I discard the original rear diff, propshaft and both centre diffs.

What I have now is a £7k car with £1k mods on it, I would struggle to sell it for any more than 8K.
It would cost approx a further £3k to 'twin engine' modify it.

What saloon car could I buy/build for 11k that is 4wd 740bhp 740lb-ft torque in basically a MILD state of tune, with the capability of being further tuned to 1200bhp ?


Original post for those confused




[Edited by Andy.F - 10/9/2002 5:47:48 PM]

Andy.F

Do they need an ECU to run or can they be manually shifted without ?
Anyone ?

Moles Dad

So you're doing it then?

Andy.F

Just doing my homework

Moles Dad

Very best of luck Andy.

scoobyboy

they do need an ecu to run as some of the solenoids are worked by it particularly the "duty solenoid c" which controls the power split between front and back wheels.

Andy.F

Mmmm 'Just suppose' you didn't need the centre diff to work, would it be possible to control the box manually perhaps via push buttons driving solenoids ?

hades

Andy - I assume have you seen the "Z-cars" tiger super 6? Runs two Kawasaki bike engines, one running the front wheels, one running the back, although being a "Lotus 7 Inspired kit car", both engines were in the front. They did it to assault 0-60 records, achieving 2.8 seconds last year. IIRC they built in some electronic launch control system, as they initially found front wheels spun and back bogged down, limiting acceleration (all relative obviously).

See http://www.zcars.org.uk/

Andy.F

Yea

I seen that on telly, when Clarkston blew up one of the motors That's defo the way to go for acceleration but I'd like a saloon car, something that looks bog standard like a white MY95

hades

The thing that surprised me with them is that they had the bike sequential boxes on, but they could allegedly get away with the engines being in different gears (within reason) according to some kit car mag.

Anyway, I was sort of wondering if you couldn't design some fancy linkage to get twin manual gearboxes off a single gearstick. Hydraulic clutches could double up, although adjusting them to get the biting points to match might be tricky. Might be as easy as trying to trick the autogearbox controllers? Just a thought.

One other question Is it going to have a "boot bulge" for the back engine's TMIC?

Andy.F

Yea, sat up last night with a few beers and designed a remote linkage for a second box, using 2 push/pull 'bourdon' cables attached to the original gearstick it shouldn't be too difficult

Probably best way for clutch is to fit two identical new clutches then have a split pedal that you can rock your foot on to adjust bite point front to rear.

UkLegacyT

your not gonna twin engine the thing now are ya

Andrew Dixon

I might have got the wrong end of the stick, but if you are thinking about building a twin engined Scoob this might be of interest ...

A guy called Ian Birch (who used to work for Dubsport - a VW specialist) has built a number of twin-engined creations over the last few years. A twin VR6 engined Golf Rallye, and twin 16v engined Mk1 Golf, and a mental 200 mph twin turbo'ed VR6 engined Mk3/4 Golf!

Each of these used two manual gearboxes shifted by a single gearlever. It also had a mechanism to allow either engine to be turned off and run in neutral giving either a front or rear wheel drive car.

I seem to remember he won the CCC magazine Converted Car of the Year award two years on the trot. Some further information on the projects can be seen here and here.

I've also seen a twin-motored Renault 5 GT Turbo running up the strip at York Dragway a couple of times ...

Hope that's useful.

Andrew

Adam M

He used to own dubsport.


dont see a problem with two engines running in different gears.

Nor is there a problem with clutch biting points.

There is no reason why one engine cannot carry the other. If the road speed is greater than the engine is pushing for, then it simply is not under load and transmits no torque. Its exactly the same of drivign the car in gear down hill. It doesnt slow the car down much, it just revs more without so much fuel being required. No Problem at all really.

Andy, I think this is insane and am sure it will be great fun, but to me it loses the essence of the impreza. Its about handling and speed combined. One thing that can be said for dubsports cars is that they were a pig to drive and didnt handle.

Yours will be damn fast, but if you want to build a fast ca\r, there are much easier ways of doing it (which you have done before I suppose!).

From a point of view of havign serious performance, and no one expecting it then, fair enough, but I dont see what the point is in starting with an already great car, as the final product will be a pointless vehicle.

Why not start with something that doesnt perform so well in the first place and is cheaper to modify? its value will not be so important at the end.

It would also mean you wouldnt have to worry about auto gearbox strengths etc. You could choose the right vehicle from the beginning, one that is easier to work on, find parts for etc. You could still use the impreza engines if necessary, but why destroy a car that is fast and functional already to create an abomination that is fast ina straight line?

Adam M

Andy,

I thought you were just doing it to be different, which of course is entirely up to you.

I thought it was an optimistic idea, and still think it will be a nightmare, but when you put it like that, it makes complete sense.

Cannot wait to see it(assuming I might one day get the chance), as I know you are one of the few people who will be able to pull it off.


Ever thought of starting with a 6 cylinder 3.3 front and rear?

If you are gonna do it, why not do it in style?

Andy.F

Adam

Are you suggesting a potential 1200 bhp and 1000lb-ft torque may not be enough in a sub 1400kg road car

Adam M

3.3 - more low down torque and more drivability!


why not eh?


cost might be a lot higher tough


I think traction might be a problem, bu then you can always graft on 345 width tyres!

Andy.F

But isn't someone already doing a 3.3

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

2 x V8's

scoobyboy

hang on surely another engine in the back of a scoob weighs more than a diff and propshaft put together?

Andy.F

Yes but put it in an early lightweight RA and it will still be lighter than a MY02 !!!

Adam M

andy, yes someone is doing a 3.3, but not 2!


or why not a 2.0 in the front and a 3.3 in the rear?

think of the pendulum effect of oversteer you could have fun with!

turn off the front engine and drive it fromt he rear with 600lbft on two wheels.

Still think you should speak to some of the aussie 500lbft boys (dont think there are any lol, 500bhp maybe) and ask them about traction issues!

Andy.F

600lb-ft torque through 2 wheels ? No problem and that was before the NOS