engine rebuilds
25 August 2002, 01:04 PM
#4
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Joseph - or even more.
For a serious rebuild - budget £7-10k - simple things like getting the block wire ringed - using uprated head studs - all these things will contribute to a more reliable engine that can take more boost...
Trout
For a serious rebuild - budget £7-10k - simple things like getting the block wire ringed - using uprated head studs - all these things will contribute to a more reliable engine that can take more boost...
Trout
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26 August 2002, 02:09 AM
#8
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Able to take 2 bar for £6500..??? And what enables it to take 2 bar for that price?? if you decide to.
I think that all most engines would need is a good set of rods, and pistons, and to be well built otherwise.
Do you have a turbo/injectors/pump/intercooler/ecu etc. etc., to even allow you to run 2 bar?
I think that all most engines would need is a good set of rods, and pistons, and to be well built otherwise.
Do you have a turbo/injectors/pump/intercooler/ecu etc. etc., to even allow you to run 2 bar?
26 August 2002, 01:35 PM
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I want better quality internals to make sure that the engine lasts longer.
What do people recommend without building a WRC rally car.
Remember the car is for normal driving too.
J.
What do people recommend without building a WRC rally car.
Remember the car is for normal driving too.
J.
27 August 2002, 12:52 AM
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spec list
h section steel con rods form usa £1000
prodrive group n crank if you can get 1 it will cost £1800 i payed £ a lot less
replaced pistons forged
triple layer metal head gaskets and seals
lightend balanced fligh wheel
port and polish heads to field motorsport specs
all i can remember at moment for more info talk to field motorsport (south woodham ferris, essex)
h section steel con rods form usa £1000
prodrive group n crank if you can get 1 it will cost £1800 i payed £ a lot less
replaced pistons forged
triple layer metal head gaskets and seals
lightend balanced fligh wheel
port and polish heads to field motorsport specs
all i can remember at moment for more info talk to field motorsport (south woodham ferris, essex)
27 August 2002, 12:55 AM
#14
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Whats the difference with the crank? GGR sell one with modified oil drillings claiming reduced chance of bearing failure, is it something similar to that?
There is a place in the US, selling the Arrow rods for approx £500 + postage + VAT on import.
There is a place in the US, selling the Arrow rods for approx £500 + postage + VAT on import.
27 August 2002, 10:43 PM
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I presume 6500 includes all parts and labour - you are clearly very keen on Field Motorsports....how many other serious builders did you speak to?
£1000 for rods seems quite pricey - have heard of Group N cranks changing hands for a tenth of the price you quoted.
What were your rebuild objectives and what did you achieve - for that money I would expect some pretty solid results - obviously dependent on turbo and ECU...
Trout
£1000 for rods seems quite pricey - have heard of Group N cranks changing hands for a tenth of the price you quoted.
What were your rebuild objectives and what did you achieve - for that money I would expect some pretty solid results - obviously dependent on turbo and ECU...
Trout
27 August 2002, 10:54 PM
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i have seen there works results, they now build the hole of the ford puma super 16 hundred this happend after 1 driver took his car to them instead of mount tune the engine should have been making 215 bhp but was only about 178ish when f.m.s finished it had 212 bhp now they do the hole lot.
just one of the things that made me a beliver.
just one of the things that made me a beliver.
27 August 2002, 10:58 PM
#20
I agree with Stevie on this, you can spend as much or as little as you like.
Call me funny, but I think of a rebuild as just the bare motor. In which case you can pick up a kit, increased capacity or otherwise for about £4k. That will generally come with oversize pistons, quality rods machined from billet/forging, a quality crank machined from billet/forging, and probably bearing shells. But some people would count all the ancillaries as part of a rebuild too.
You then need to look to get someone to "build" it. Which can be as simple as bolting it together and hoping it works (bad idea) to as complex as machining bits on the block, measuring, minor corrections and so on, and it's these that take the time (and therefore money). The actual sequence of bolting together is relatively swift once the preperations have been made.
Without appearing to be rude, I think Trout lives in mega-money land! Which is surprising as I know he can get a good price on most things. But Stevie and I (and others) are more budget orientated.
For example you can get second hand injectors cheap, get them cleaned and serviced (not essential), and end up saving about £300 on a set. But you may not want to deal with the hassle, and just pay for new ones.
You will also need to get new gaskets, belts, nuts bolts, oil etc etc etc which all adds up. And there are options with all of those as to supplier, manufacturer variant, std, uprated blah blah blah.
It's also worth noting that you are probably after a higher spec engine (power wise) than that of a WRC car. The WRC cars have to run with a restrictor that effectively limits power to something like 350hp. They get over it in a way by running massive mid range torque to ensure that nearly all that power is available at any speed and probably in more than just one gear.
Best thing to do if you are not mechanically minded, is speak to a number of tuners/engine builders and see if they can put together a package, at least for one element of the work, like the engine rebuild, or the electronics supply/mapping. Get a detailed breakdown so you can be sure the quotes compare spec for spec etc.
Then just do the hard part, give up wads and wads of cash.
Paul
Call me funny, but I think of a rebuild as just the bare motor. In which case you can pick up a kit, increased capacity or otherwise for about £4k. That will generally come with oversize pistons, quality rods machined from billet/forging, a quality crank machined from billet/forging, and probably bearing shells. But some people would count all the ancillaries as part of a rebuild too.
You then need to look to get someone to "build" it. Which can be as simple as bolting it together and hoping it works (bad idea) to as complex as machining bits on the block, measuring, minor corrections and so on, and it's these that take the time (and therefore money). The actual sequence of bolting together is relatively swift once the preperations have been made.
Without appearing to be rude, I think Trout lives in mega-money land! Which is surprising as I know he can get a good price on most things. But Stevie and I (and others) are more budget orientated.
For example you can get second hand injectors cheap, get them cleaned and serviced (not essential), and end up saving about £300 on a set. But you may not want to deal with the hassle, and just pay for new ones.
You will also need to get new gaskets, belts, nuts bolts, oil etc etc etc which all adds up. And there are options with all of those as to supplier, manufacturer variant, std, uprated blah blah blah.
It's also worth noting that you are probably after a higher spec engine (power wise) than that of a WRC car. The WRC cars have to run with a restrictor that effectively limits power to something like 350hp. They get over it in a way by running massive mid range torque to ensure that nearly all that power is available at any speed and probably in more than just one gear.
Best thing to do if you are not mechanically minded, is speak to a number of tuners/engine builders and see if they can put together a package, at least for one element of the work, like the engine rebuild, or the electronics supply/mapping. Get a detailed breakdown so you can be sure the quotes compare spec for spec etc.
Then just do the hard part, give up wads and wads of cash.
Paul
27 August 2002, 11:03 PM
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Trout
H section uprated rods can typically cost around 900 (inc Vat)for the 4 of them!............
Rhybeck
Why change the crank - whilst no engine can be deemed bullet prof at 2 bar - you can run 2 bar with the standard sti crank.......
Each to their own, cant harm I guess - but not really required
Joseph
If you were just looking at 5k - you would not need to uprate the internals - you'd spend that elsewhere as Steve T quite rightly points out before even thinking of the internal route
If you want the minimal hasle route to engine power You'll need plenty of money - and certainly over 10k! (yes it can be done cheaper second hand parts etc, but its very time consuming!)
[Edited by steve McCulloch - 8/27/2002 11:04:27 PM]
H section uprated rods can typically cost around 900 (inc Vat)for the 4 of them!............
Rhybeck
Why change the crank - whilst no engine can be deemed bullet prof at 2 bar - you can run 2 bar with the standard sti crank.......
Each to their own, cant harm I guess - but not really required
Joseph
If you were just looking at 5k - you would not need to uprate the internals - you'd spend that elsewhere as Steve T quite rightly points out before even thinking of the internal route
If you want the minimal hasle route to engine power You'll need plenty of money - and certainly over 10k! (yes it can be done cheaper second hand parts etc, but its very time consuming!)
[Edited by steve McCulloch - 8/27/2002 11:04:27 PM]
27 August 2002, 11:10 PM
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Pavlo,
Mmmmmm - don't think you are rude - but not sure where your comment comes from - surely I am saying that having learnt the hard way - shop around - understand and then get new prices.
You are probably right - I paid £500 for my 740 injectors because there what I wanted and paying second hand price and having them cleaned to save £100 just was not an option for me. When I am normally working I am away 3-4 nights a week and simply do not have the time to source things, do the work and outsource the engineering, mechanical, whatever work.
Back to your point - I have spent about £6k on performance mods over a period of 42months - doesn't sound like I am throwing my money around to me
Trout
Mmmmmm - don't think you are rude - but not sure where your comment comes from - surely I am saying that having learnt the hard way - shop around - understand and then get new prices.
You are probably right - I paid £500 for my 740 injectors because there what I wanted and paying second hand price and having them cleaned to save £100 just was not an option for me. When I am normally working I am away 3-4 nights a week and simply do not have the time to source things, do the work and outsource the engineering, mechanical, whatever work.
Back to your point - I have spent about £6k on performance mods over a period of 42months - doesn't sound like I am throwing my money around to me
Trout
27 August 2002, 11:18 PM
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Pavlo,
Just wanted to add another point - some economies can be very poor - I was sold some apparently fine injector O-rings for my injectors - half the price of the Subaru OEM - the rings looked exactly the same - measured exactly the same however they absolutely would not seal. Using the the existing Subaru rings - not even new ones - sealed immediately.
You can get some parts cheaper as non-standard - however it is a false economy.
Yes, I can get good prices and I will - I may be in mega-money land - but I don't want to spend all of it on my car
Steve,
I am sure you can get very, very good rods cheaper than that I mean really good - but I could be wrong - I will check the price.
Trout
Just wanted to add another point - some economies can be very poor - I was sold some apparently fine injector O-rings for my injectors - half the price of the Subaru OEM - the rings looked exactly the same - measured exactly the same however they absolutely would not seal. Using the the existing Subaru rings - not even new ones - sealed immediately.
You can get some parts cheaper as non-standard - however it is a false economy.
Yes, I can get good prices and I will - I may be in mega-money land - but I don't want to spend all of it on my car
Steve,
I am sure you can get very, very good rods cheaper than that
I mean really good - but I could be wrong - I will check the price.Trout
28 August 2002, 12:35 AM
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No idea Stevie but it does pi55 me off the price of jap parts 
You can buy a set of 8 forged chevy rods that will swing a big heavy piston on a long stroke crank at 9000 rpm all day for less than $500 ! That's about £45 each. Economy of scale I know but still...... daylight robbery
You can buy a set of 8 forged chevy rods that will swing a big heavy piston on a long stroke crank at 9000 rpm all day for less than $500 ! That's about £45 each. Economy of scale I know but still...... daylight robbery