I have recently had an AP Racing clutch fitted by PE and it judders like crazy at low speed has anyone else had the same trouble or is this a one off

 

Is that trouble with an AP clutch or trouble with Power Engineering?

 

I would say it was either trouble with P.E. or your car.

I have ordered an AP and tried STEF's newly fitted one. It was sweet as a nut - which is how it should be!!!

Contact P.E. again.

Shaun.

P.S. I take it is a standard AP racing organic clutch!!!

I assume they replaced the clutch bearing..........

[This message has been edited by Shaun (edited 11-04-2000).]

 

i've just had one fitted to my my98 sti 5 (please don't ask its a very long story).

and before the car broke down (again) it was the dogs bollocks or should that be

 

As Shaun says, my new clutch feels pukka!
There's sometimes a very slight judder in first, but nothing major. It depends how I pull away.
Is yours organic or cera-metallic?

Stef.

 

Have many people out there tried other varieties of performance clutch.

I have not heard much praise for AP clutchs recently

 

whilst rining around all the 'known' places like scoobysport, park lane, scoobymania etc they all recomended the same ones.
either the AP one or a helix (i think thats spelt right) one.

I went for AP as i couldnt have a clutch from a company that specialises in shatterproof rulers !

 

Nice one...... I wish I could even begin to explain how much you just made me laugh!!!!.

Mike.

 

I hope it stops juddering soon as the exhaust has started knocking against something with the severe judder.

PS. why does everyone slag off Power engineering????

 

I think both clutches are good, but prefer to fit the Helix.

The Helix paddle clutch is far more usable than the AP and is far more friendly than the standard 22B clutch. You can also light up all four wheels, on warm dry tarmac, with no clutch slip at all

Bite, pedal feel and build quality are superb.

It amazes me that people are prepared to drive their cars around with badly installed clutches, simply because someone says "that's as good as we can get it". It is normally silly things that have been overlooked as well.

 

Pete the problem is that PE said it would judder at first and get better in time but now ive done about 800 miles in central london and its actually got worse

 

Pete,

I you sure you should be taking about any type of PADDLE clutch here!

From my understanding, if you use a paddle clutch (that won't slip), you are surely transmitting the stress to the next thing in line - the gearbox!

I would rather use an organic clutch that slips when it needs to, rather then shell out for a new gearbox when it goes bang!

N.B. After speaking to AP Racing in Coventry, I have been told that there organic clutches will now take the same pounding as there paddle clutches. As technology has improved, the torque capabilities have also increased on organic plates. They don't even recommend the usage of paddles anymore.

Shaun.

 

Shaun

You are quite right that a paddle clutch can transmit more shock to the gearbox, but its drivers that break gearboxes, not clutches.

We prefer the Helix paddle to the AP, as it is more user friendly and the car can be driven in traffic almost as smoothly as with the OE unit.

You can be sympathetic or abusive with either type of clutch, but an organic clutch (with acceptable cover plate spring rates)will never accept the torque that a paddle will.

If you are abusive, a gearbox re-build is a similar cost to a new clutch and flywheel.

 

Forgot to say, judder is most commonly caused by damage to the flywheel. As a clutch begins to fail and start slipping more, the heat causes crazing and hotspots on the friction face, distorting the surface.

If the flywheel is damaged and isn't replaced, the new clutch will judder.

Moral = change the clutch as soon as it starts to fail and save £200+ on flywheel replacement.

 

Perhaps I should have changed my flywheel as well then??

Stef.

 

PE skimmed my fly wheel and it still judders like crazy

 

Jake

It could be that it was assembled with grease marks on the faces. I'm not suggesting that this was the case, but poor cleaning is a common cause of new clutch judder.

Either way, I'm sure they want you, their customer, to be pleased with their work and I suggest you call them.

 

Well when i was phoning around two weeks park lane recommnded shatterproof ruler company (helix)

scoobysport recommended the AP above the helix (according to the chap i spoke to anway !)

and scoobymania said AP as well, due to its organic nature.

I must also add a big thank you to Mike at scoobymania for shipping it when he did, your a life saver sir.

I just hope the garage that fit it did a better job than they have on the rest of my sti5 !

(they fitted the wrong lambda sensor for its year, then scotch locked it in, which promptly fell to bits, the lambda is now fried again, with the current garage thinking its probably fried the cat too due to too much neat fuel.
They also fitted my blitz induction kit with only bracket which is shaking my MAF to pieces (tho i dont need it thanks to possum). whereas other sti 5's i've seen had two brackets.

If they can't fit an induction kit, how on earth can i trust them to fit a clutch !

They also installed (prior to possum) an AFR unit in the car which being lazy they put between the carpet and kick plate, rather than under the kick plate.

I'm not into slagging garages publically, but if anyone is considering any performance tuning in the dorking area in surrey, please ask my opinion first.

 

ptholt,

I chose the Helix Group N kit, because I couldn't buy a clutch from a company that specialise in things that brake!

I find the helix group N (not a paddle type, IIRC) is a lot more positive than the standard STI unit without being too digital. I had the STI uprated clutch (1050kg clamping force) on my previous car, this was also very good.

Oh, and my clutch can light up all 4 wheels in the dry, but I wouldn't recommend doing that more than never.

Moray

 

PS: I have only driven an AP clutch fitted to a heavily modified Escort Cosworth. This clutch (not a paddle type IIRC) was much less friendly (more digital) than any impreza unit I have driven yet.

 

It seems that Peter Croney is not comparing like with like. I understand the AP clutch is an organic one and does not use paddles.

Paddle clutches are a nightmare to use and transmit a lot of vibrations.

Maybe the reason SS prefer Helix is because they are not an AP distributor?

All F1 teams and just about the majority of the motorsport industry use AP clutches so you will never go wrong there!

 

Ok Guys...

Clutch companies produce various types of clutches:

Button (standard round type)
Sprung Paddle/Puck (sometimes called Group N - dont ask me why)
Paddle/Puck (unsprung) sometimes called Grp A (dont ask me why).

You get single, double, triple... right upto 6 plate variants.

You can get both Grp A and N of all the above types.

Each of the 3 above types can be made of organic, cermanic, carbon, metallic material

My experience tells me to use a button clutch where possible. Paddles tend to be too harsh for road cars.

If you insisted on slipping and generating heat, then use a ceramic/metallic friction plate.

One thing most people ignore is the pressure plate... this determines how much pressure is applied to the friction plate. Most makes of pressure plate use the same design (but offer different springs rates and leverage). This pressure is what is felt when you press the clutch (how hard it is to press).

The trick is to find a clutch that is best suited to your needs.... there is no point in having a paddle clutch with a King Kong pressure plate if your wife will be driving it.. or if you drive around town alot.

Never go for an unsprung clutch in a road car... your transmission wont last.. and it will judder like buggery.

Personally I think the AP and Helix are on par with each other.. they are virtually the same price... same design... etc...

I know a few teams (Grp N) use the Helix.. and rate them... and a few teams use AP...

So basically... take ya pick.

I have a paddle clutch in the workshop if anyone wants a look... I run an AP button clutch.

J.

 

Jake,
Which AP clutch do you have? (sorry if I've missed something)

I have the AP 4 Blade Sprung Paddle (Metallic) which uses the standard cover and bearing.

Mine still judders a bit after 2000m (ish) but it did calm down a lot. I'm told that this clutch retains a certain degree of judder for its whole life.

If you have the same clutch, I wouldn't expect the judder to disappear completely. If it's organic though then the story should be different.

Drop me a note if you need to know anything more about my clutch.

Did

 

I agree with J. here...

Consider the use your car generally gets before going for a paddle or button clutch - They are a lot less user friendly than a standard clutch plate so you won't like it if you do drive in traffic a lot.

Personally I would only use this type of clutch if the standard unit slipped or overheated with the use it receives. I've had a paddle clutch fitted to another car and it juddered like mad and wore out after 5000 miles. Maybe they aren't all like this mind you.

Cheers,

Alex