Thinking this may be the next change for me and my UK spec MY98 with PPP, induction kit HKS exhaust. Yummy!
Questions abound though.
Reliability and Turbo lag being the main ones at the moment.
I am smitten by the aggresive look of front mounted units and associated pipework.
I'm not a racing driver so how much benefit will I gain from front mounting as opposed to upgrading the intercooler I have at the moment and putting some kind of water spray device in.
I find it highly unlikely that I will be taking the car to the realms of the 300+bhp club and will probably never have it dynoed.

 

Hi,

Why don't you carefully remove the bumper and paint a big square area/all of the radiator silver using a radiator paint (assuming this is available?!). This would give the front mount look whilst not increasing lag or overdraft (although it is likely to affect the radiator efficiency a bit (hence trying to find a radiator paint)).

Moray
(Only partially kidding )

 

I saw an RS Cosworth with a 1.1L badge on it once!

 

Bajie,

I was talking about intercoolers with Bob Rawle at one of the PE dyno days. His opinion of the I/C fitted as standard was that it was actually pretty efficient - not nearly as bad as some people think it is. He had put installed thermocouples to measure the outlet temperature under boost, and found that the charge temperature was fine - much lower than his old Calibra 4x4 turbo, and the recovery time was much quicker too.

I wouldn't bother replacing your I/C unless you are sure that the outlet temps are too high as a consequence of your boost pressure and smallish turbo. You also correctly point out that you will get a lot more lag, and the I/C will be vunerable to damage by road debris.

Spending the money on suspension or brakes would be more cost effective!.

Rgds,

Alex

 

Thanks for the info.
Didn't consider damage to the IC while driving!
Car has all the Prodrive tweakery and more.
Brakes will be further upgraded in the near future before track days and Santa Pod efforts.

 

I know a guy who put 1.6 badges on his Tomcat (Rover Turbo Coupe).

I also like the idea of a wolf-in-sheeps-clothing!

How about the bumper sticker "Hows my driving, Call 999"?

Moray

 

Hi Ian

The front mounted intercooler can be made to work very well and any associated lag is hard to define. This lag can also be mapped out so to speak if you have a mappable ECU.

Now, talking about Q cars, has anyone seen the turbos without spoilers? There are a couple of famous one in Oz and in the Fast WRX magazine.

Definitely an acquired taste and whilst I wouldn't, I reckon it looks quite cool!

Laters

Ben

 

If I get a programmable ECU and have it mapped for loads of mid-range power and reducing my turbo lag will I be able to resist the temptation to play with the settings?
The RS Turbo WAS a 1.1L. Some buffoon just put the kit on it.
Which is why I won't paint an intercooler on the front!

 

As a rule we don't supply the hand controller with the Possum Ian and so you wouldn't be able to play with the settings.

There obviously exceptions to all rules but we do the mapping and you can't play with it to prevent you blowing it up!! Not that you would of course!

Laters

BEn

 

Ben,

(curiosity_mode)
So how long would it take to install a frontmount intercooler? How long would the mapping take? This will be significant in pricing the upgrade.

How does remapping reduce the lag generated by the considerable extra volume within the pressurised side of the induction system?
(/curiosity_mode)

Moray

 

Moray,

Obviously, it can't do anything about the raw physics of the situation, which is that you have a bigger volume of air in the inlet system so there is a longer delay between spool-up and the appearance of boost pressure.

However, the Possum is much better at managing the transition from vacuum to boost, so you do get a noticeable reduction in lag. I won't pretend that I fully understand why this is yet, but I had a Possum fitted on Saturday and there is no doubt that it is true. I think the improvement is a consequence of keeping the wastegate tigher while boost builds up, but other factors may be involved. I'm sure BobR or ScoobyMania can clarify.

Anyway, what this means is that if you install any new component that increases lag (be it a different turbo, intercooler or whatever) the loss in responsiveness can be offset to some extent. However, it unlikely to be as good as it would have been if you had installed the Possum ECU but left everything else as it was.

Before you jump in here Ben I am willing to believe that the ECU can reduce the *difference* in before-and-after lag when you fit a big turbo or whatever. For example, assuming you have some kind of scoring system for turbo lag, if your standard ECU and turbo score "3", then you install a VF22 turbo and the result is a score of "6". You might find that the scores with a Possum Link are "2" and "4" respectively.

The trouble is, as with all these things, you'd be buying blind, and you're going to spend well over a grand before you find out how it actually feels on the road.

-= mike =-

 

Mike.
Do you have a front mounted intercooler?
If a bigger turbo and a front IC both have "adverse" affects how does this effect the real time feeling when driving.
Is it like putting your foot down and waiting or what. I don't want to change my turbo charger. Not yet anyway.
Silver paint is starting to look a lot more attractive.

 

Hi Moray

The front mounted intercooler is not a "bolt on part" in the same way a back box is. There will no doubt be initiative required when installing. (See FireFox, he knows!! )

The ECU mapping takes around 5 hours give or take.

If you or anybody is seriously considering either the ECU or front intercooler I recomend you call us for the explanations.

Kind regards

Ben
P.s. Mike does not have a front mounted I/C

 

My wife is gonna slap me ...

 

Hi Ben,

Having spent about a day with Pete Croney in an attempt to fit one of those carbon ramairbox things into the inner wing of my last car, I would guess that one of those front mount intercooler kits would take at least 6 hours to fit, IF all the brackets fit and there are no problems with ABS units etc... getting in the way. I believe you have to cut bodywork (bumper at least) in order to fit the pipework, so it's not a job to rush!

I bet my oil-cooler would have to be relocated if I went the FMI route, oh well.

Moray

 

The bumper does need to be 're-modelled' and you can buy another oil cooler having it done at the same time.
Kerching --- Slap --- Oh dear, dear ...

 

Oi, Bajie, No!

I want to cool the engine, not give it hypothermia! Besides, where would I put the second oilcooler matrix?

Moray

 

Hello

Bye...

J.

 

Hi J,

So, what's it really like having a FMInterfooler then?

Moray

 

Yes how much 'real' power increase do you get. The FMI aint cheap at £1450 including Vat at Scooby Mania - then theres the fitting costs and no doubt some remapping -is it worth it?

 

Steve,

Dave at DPMotorsport is checking up on details of the Apexi kit for me, he is sure it will be less than a grand, not including vat. The APEXi unit has been designed to be much more resistant to the impact of grit and other stuff.

Moray

 

Hello..

I'm not stopping.. I'm hungry...

A front I/C is more effecient than the top mount... but it does vary between makes...and the use of the car...

You will get slightly more lag than usual... but that can be compensated for (virtually)

The design of the core is important... and so is the size.... but the main thing is the pressure drop.. you want an I/C will as little pressure drop as possible...

Some makes have a large surface area and are narrow (HKS for example). Some have a smaller surface area and are thicker (MRT).

The fitment of these differs... and the MY of the car will change the fitment process.

I considered Apexi, Spearco, HKS and MRT. virtually all the makes .. In the end I went for MRT.

I liked the quality of the pipework with the MRT, tig welded stainless... nice

The bumper will have to be modified on all of them... As for the resilience of stones, that comes indirectly for the core design.


Anyways..

Time for food..

J.
As for the oil cooler, that depends on the make of the I/C you chhose. Chances are PE has slapped it where the I/C will go.

But that will be easily movable....

 

Have you seen the car in Bonzai this month? (Scooby sti3). That uses mostly all Apexi in Australia. I was astonised that after all the mods, including an uprated turbo it was only running 1.3 bar of boost - seems a bit low.
Going off at a tangent -

Can anyone confirm to me the mags comment that the 'standard sti conrods are ok' I thought they needed uprating on any large power conversion - yep I know the Conrod bolts are crap - but I thought the Conrods were crap too?

Moray - get back to me on the front mounted intercooler. Who's DP Motorsport and where are they based?