Which ECU though? Not sure what is available for it... I suppose you could see in detail what UKLegacyT has done? At what point did it retain reliability? What caused the failure? Did it look like it had detted Ian?

[Edited by john banks - 9/1/2002 2:37:26 AM]

 

Hi you Ladies and Gents. Anyone please tell me the differnence between Legacy turbo and imprezza Turbo engine please As im thinking about getting rid of my Legacy and getting a WRX but im concerned that after reading some of the posts on hear about engines letting go on imprezzas , piston slap , ECU remapping etc etc i would like to know why. My 96 Legacys has 140,000 miles on the clock, same Turbo on it and its driven Hard most of the time ok its not got the street credability of Imprezza but i know its reliable , uses no oil , still Very tidy in appearance and will always be there if i leave it in Car park ? ( up to yet anyway ) but the Engine appears BOMB PROOF as opposed to some of the posts in here. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated before i part with my £

 

Shropshire

I had a Legacy Turbo and never had an engine problem. Another one my dad used to own has 170k on it and is still going.

I have a 99MY Impreza with 50k, FsSH, which has just needed a short engine under warranty. So I would probably support your concerns.

I'm not techy enough but I believe that the design of the Legacy block means that it is less susceptible to excess heat and oil starvation issues (?)

If it's running well the value isn't going to change much from 140k to 170k now so I'd keep it until you can trade in for something that you really really want.

 

2 all

ive got 2 legacy turbos a j reg on 150k and a k reg on 140k both running sweet as swiss watchs..but i still dont know if there is any difference between the imprezas and legacy engine..??

 

legacy's have closed deck blocks, less likely to blow a head gasket when highly modded. some imprezas do have these blocks, but a lot have open deck too.
imprezas use different lifters, they are rocker type on legacy, so can be a bit noisy on some engines.
turbos are different, imprezas use td05, td04, or vf 23 etc etc list goes on, legacy uses a vf12.
basically though, is same engine. impreza downpipe and centre section of exhaust is same as legacy due to same (mostly) floorpan, just b/box differs due to body overhang and bracket position etc.
apart from the upper shell, is basically same car, inner wings are same too.

hope this helps

ian

 

Can any of you guys with legacys tell me the best mods to make for improved performance,from experience?

 

Up to what year do the Legacies have closed deck blocks? When was the last UK Legacy Turbo made? How does the VF12 compare with say a VF23 or VF28 for flow/efficiency etc? Is it a right angle entry? Do all the Legacies use a chargecooler?

It would be quite tempting to make a monster out of an inexpensive "sleeper" like this by means of injectors, ECU, turbo, exhaust.

What is the handling like compared to an Impreza?

 

John take my motor and make it fast!!

 

Should i go for a cat back system or a decat system?What the gain?

 

all single turbo legacy's have closed deck blocks. they ended production '94. I suspect even Ian's car was just registered later.

The VF12 seems pretty crap, but I wonder if it just needs an uprated actuator, as I struggle to get over 13psi of boost over 6000 rpm.

Downpipe is best first mod, makes it much nicer to drive.

Yesterday with just downpipe, backbox and some ECU remapping (mostly boost and low rpm richening) I got 250hp@13psi, 241 ft-lbs@16psi.

As for street sleeper, I am pretty sure mr vauxhall cavalier 16v thought he would keep up with me, but as I reached well over 120km/h (must have been since mph would be speeding) I left him far behind, and I didn't appreciate being pushed along.

If I was starting from scratch, I would do the following mods.

Mongoose exhaust (just a pain at MOT time)
K&N filter
ECU Remap to remove fuel cut and richen bottom end
Dawes device for boost control
Uprated fuel pump for peace of mind

Above should cost about £850 and be good for about 270hp

If you want to go further, you would probably want:

Bigger 440cc injectors (cheap, no fuel rail mods)
ADjustable fuel pressure reg (push injectors further)
TD05 Turbo (from 93-96 impreza)
uprated chargecooler rad and pump (Pace global lights rad, davies craig pump)
Further ECU tweaks

Another £700 ish gets you to about 320hp

Then you are looking at:

FMIC instead of chargecooler (Pace kit fits nicely in legacy, but EVO 6 intercooler can cost £200, then add £150 for piping and put in plenty of time)
550cc injectors.
Hybrid TD05 turbo
A little prayer (free)

And you could be looking at 360hp, but waiting for it to go bang, in which case you are probably going to want to rebuild engine with uprated pistons, possibly rods. And you are talking another £1500 if you do it on the cheap, just for a piston rebuild, rods is extra and so on and so on.

Paul

 

Thanks for the info mate, ilive near glasgow anyone know the best place to get a remap?

 

Thanks to everyone who replied to my Post giving me Answers to my Question. So if Legacy Engine is so Reliable what the Hell made Subaru (Fuji Industries)Change the block for the imprezza. Also while im on is the Any benafit in fitting a Baileys Dump Valve As ive been toying with this idea .As for the rest of the car i think i will retain my legacy and keep it stock so to speak as i can get in enough trouble as it it with SP30 s. Would also like ot attend a meet sometime but like i said before in previous post it hasnt got the credability of imprezza but it has got reliability which is a major thing to me while either going to and fro from work or buried up to its axles while marshalling on rallies in Woods.

Once again many thanks ladys and gentlemen for you help

 

here you go john



it was det, ring lands have gone. another piston has a hairline crack down the side of it too.
to add to what paul has explained, yes the vf12 is right angle. not sure what its like in comparison. have one in the garage john, if you want to try it at all, your welcome, then just return it when your ready, i use a tdo5 now. vf12 is stronger mid range, but lacks a bit at top, boosts clean to 7000k though.
as paul said, mine is late registered, one of the very last on a 96 N.
all of them use a closed deck block as far as i am aware, and all do use a chargecooler.
handling wise, not been in an impreza. uses same suspension though, but about 100kgs heavier than uk impreza saloon. handles well.

cheers
ian

 

ecu has 'G8' sticker on it

 

I think a big Thing must be gearing, leagcy has much taller gearing ,and i feeel this must have a effect on engine life

 

So it is not really a short circuit to mega power, and not particularly easier to get a reliable 350+ BHP out of than an Impreza, as the block seems not to be the weak point anyway - more rods and pistons?

 

yes i believe the weak link on the bottom end is the rod bolts and big end bearings, also the pistons. if the rod bolts stretch, the bearing spins and blocks the oil way....mega hot spot.

one thing to watch with the closed deck block (on the legacy anyway) is that the thrust bearing is on journal no.3 (centre), whereas the impreza open deck is journal no.5, so i believe the crank would be a touch different for this reason..??

i think the rods can handle torque, andy.f has shown this, just gotta watch the revs with high power/torque due to the bolts. andy says he hardly revs his past 6000rpm as he doesnt need to...maybe this another key to his success along with his well thought out mods?

ian

 

I had some prices for putting uprated ARP bolts, into std rods, and stress-releive and shot peen.

Probably cost about £130 including the labour bearings on top.

Not a bad way to go, but better rods can be had for £600.

used sti forged pistons for £200, might be nice...

paul

 

paul, what do you think about the standard rod bolts? i mean bolts normally let go due to tension, exhaust stroke, so if revs are staying standard <7000, is there any need really?

any thoughts. mine are standard still, so they better be bl**dy good enough

 

Legacy gearing is the same as UK impreza. As for the rod bolts, I thought that all you people said that it was the conrod that broke, not the bolts. The crank and rods are the same as impreza's
As for the bearing spinning, and blocking the oilway, the conrod bearing may spin, because of lack of oil, but there is no oil flowing from the conrod to anywhere, so if it spun, it would not affect oilflow anywhere. The rod bearing is a solid shell, top and bottom. Oil does not flow through it.
The thrust bearing is on teh rear main, on the later cars, not all open deck blocks. Im not sure exactly what years though
Only bad thing about a legacy, is the heads. Standard pistons arent great, but then, neither are a wrx's.

 

I don't know enough about std rob bolts to comment.

It was driven by all the evo boys putting in ARP bolts. Steve at SMG suggested minicooper ARP bolts with nuts. The theory is if you can run larger bolts with more tension, you can preload the cap more, and it stays round at higher loads.

But as steve says, there is a lot people saying "do the rods" but I have yet to see as many people with dead rods as dead pistons. I do however like the idea of stress-relieving the rods and getting them shot-peened. But maybe the damage has alread been done, so a quick crack test would be a good start.

Big torque would tend to bend rods, high revs/heavy pistons tend to stretch/snap rods. Again, who has had this happen with a subaru? was it detting etc?

Paul

 

the cossie pistons should take a fair bit of load off my rods at high revs shouldnt they

 

yes they should. As far as anyone can tell, all rods in phase 1 engines at least are the same.

Paul