Felix.

The ones we have are good, keen and a valuable resource. Most tend to be on neighborhoods so they can be seen walking around the communities, but they do get seconded onto response if we are short.

There are limitations to what they can do - they can't lead investigations, PACE interviews etc etc - but the funding for them is currently slashed, so i'm not sure what their future is.

LSherratt

iTrader: (1)

That's fair enough.

billythekid

Every force is different when it comes to Specials, force policy specific. Some really restrict their training to just the basics and stick them on NPT with a PCSO, others promote CPD and things like PACE training is now on offer in quite a few forces, as are secondments or even perm positions in specialist roles along with the training those roles require.

Again, in some forces budgets are being cut really badly for specials but in others there is an increased budget to bring even more in to cover the short fall in regular recruitment, with the silver lining of offering specials regular positions when the time comes to attract the right people. Get 3 or 4 years out of them FOC, train them at a low cost and then convert them into a reg. Totally the wrong direction to go IMHO - but that's how some of them are doing it.

SRSport

There always appears to be PCSOs available yet they are rarely used in incidents like this. The home office has commissioned them to detain for 30 minutes but most CCs choose not to extend this power. I think public confidence would be greatly increased if they started using them to their full potential.

jonc

You could always claim against the victim for compensation should that happen.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-21987343

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I LOL at Felix's expected response.
First off, HUMBERSIDE Police are soooooooooo hard up for officers that they have a motorbike cop PERMANENTLY detached to set up a laser speed camera wherever he likes.
After all, breaking an arbitrary limit, while ACTUALLY hurting no-one is sooooooo important, isn't it?

Oh, I forgot, every motorist caught speeding can be one "crime solved"...so there you have it, folks. Cheat the figures while p*ssing off motorists AND make money for HMG at the same time...what could be better?

Meanwhile, Humberside cops use the same worn-out phrase, "no-one available". They also have at LEAST five scamera vans out every day...and no, they aren't run by specials, or such, they are serving police officers in uniform, because I've watched the sneaky bar stewards setting up.

Secondly, it was on these VERY pages about five years ago that we discussed the non-attendance of police to an incident in rural Notts where a youth was shooting dogs etc, and threatening residents with a bow and arrows...high powered, not a toy.

NO-ONE turned up.

The OFFICIAL response from Notts police was as I've said: "We had no armed officers available and can't risk unarmed officers etc etc"

And guess what? Notts police are another set of utter wasters obsessed with catching motorists speeding.

And when you put these points to police officers, even senior ones, you get, "We are only obeying orders"

THEN they whine about NOT having public support.......HOW thick are they??????

oliVeR6

We had a homeless drunk OAP wondering around our square the other day which is very unusual for where I live as it's out in the sticks somewhat with the nearest alcohol source about 2 miles away.
My fiancee actually noticed him first... stood behind me with his hood up at the lounge window peering in! He scared the mrs to death and our little boy. I went out the front to ask him what he was doing and why he was wondering off with one of our horse rugs that the mrs had left by the front door!
He put the rug down and asked me for a brew?! When I said no he challenged me then said he was going to take my 20 month old son's trike from down the side of the house!! I told him to get on his way and went back into the house and rang 101 to report him.
Majority of inhabitants on our square are pensioners themselves and whilst I was on the phone to 101 I watched him peering into their windows. He then went into someone's porch, knocked on there door and didn't re-appear!
I relayed all this info to the woman still on the phone and she said she would send someone out. About 4hrs later a police car pulled into the square, parked up for 5 mins, did a 3 point turn and drove off!!!

t79boy

I think it's been said here plenty that it isn't the individual coppers fault as they are just following orders. It's more to do with successive governments slashing their budgets and concentrating on fiddling crime statistics by instructing the guys at the top of the food chain what to concentrate on .
Couple this with the law being too liberal and the reluctance to incarcerate people due to costs involved and you have a recipe for public resentment which is misguided .
I for one have a deep appreciation for the police force who frankly are over worked and get little thanks for the job they do. I bet they themselves feel frustrated at the the red tape and endless paperwork they need to get through to do their "job"

oliVeR6

I agree with what you're saying but when you watch a Police officer pull into your square, park up then drive off again they aren't painting the best impression for themselves. Which frustrates me because the majority do do their best with the time/equipment/power they are given.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

If that's true, ask yourself what they are doing about it?

And when you get the answer, ask yourself if it's easier to sit in a warm cop-shop munching donuts and slurping coffee while filling in forms, or getting out there on a cold wet night and dealing with burglars, robbers, rapists etc?

Felix.

I think we have been down this road before Alcs ol' buddy.

Our shift are the ones getting out there on cold, wet nights dealing with burglars, robbers, rapists - but also missing from homes, sudden deaths, car crime, retail thefts, make offs, domestics, suspicious persons, drug dealing/taking, public order etc etc

Like i said before, i don't eat doughnuts and any meal breaks we manage to get in for is taken up by paperwork from the proceeding incidents

I don't really see what you expect us 'to do about it' when all available units are tied up. And yes, the paperwork aspect of the job is important unless you are wanting us to offer no evidence at any court trial, or not record the details of incidents, or disregard any pattern of violent/controlling behaviour in domestics, or have a coroner curious as to the circumstances of the dead person in the morgue, or turn a blind eye at missing people, etc etc

I can't speak for other forces, but we utilise traffic officers all the time when we are strapped - but what of the local communities who make regular complaints to police about speeding, do we ignore those members of the public as speeding is not important? As most people are against speed cameras, is it not better to have a traffic cop on a bike to pull you over and offer advice as and when (as has been mentioned numerous times on here). And are you not in favour of ANPR cameras- or do you think it's not an issue if un-insured cars use the road even if your insurance goes up every year.

The bike which you see 'setting up' - do you know if there are any un-answered emergencies at this time, as i suspect he would be diverted if there was. And are you talking about 1 bike out of the entire force. And is this flagged by the local community as a priority area for speeding - if so, do you think its acceptable that we ignore their requests

Speeding does not get classed as a crime -no crime report is submitted and it does not fall under National Crime Recording Standards. In fact i think only death by dangerous is the only one classed as a crime

Are you sure the guys in the van you see are police officers - or a civilian wearing a police fleece. I'm not having a go, just some of the girls who cover our front desk will sometimes wear ours if they are cold and their are employed by a private company. We are allpart of the 'police family' so they can wear them.

Like i said before Alcazar - i'm all ears if you have any ideas of how we can improve, but you mainly just sight examples in your area which you are not happy about. Today we turnd out 16 on the shift, had between 30-50 jobs on our queue with about 10 emergency jobs (1 of which tied 5 of us up for most of the day) and i have about 5 ongoing enquiries on my own queue.

Felix.

True, but playing 'devils advocate' it will depend on what was passed to that officer at the time. It's often that the message passed will be "Can you see if there is a drunken male standing in the street" - it's not mentioned that he's been up and down driveways.

I tend to call on the person who made the initial call, unless they have specifically requested me not to call, to find out exactly what has happened.

LUCKO

iTrader: (3)

you should of thrown the 'yoof over the fence and said he fell off it whilst climbing

shytorque

Unfortunately my mother was there so I refrained from dealing out a suitable punishment to save her being anymore upset than she was.

Face down in a canal with a bag over his head springs to mind as suitable!!

shytorque

Just tried the 101 number half a dozen times....
Beep ... Beep ...Beep .......
Absolute w*nkers !!!!!!!
Does not even ring ,comes up call ended. Takeaway time perhaps ,phone off the hook.....
T055ers

SRSport

Felix, thanks for taking the time to explain, its refreshing to hear someone comment who actually knows what they are talking about but I do get the impression that people wont listen to what they don't want to hear.

leeds_182

iTrader: (2)

So much anti police bs on this forum it's got boring.

That's all I've got on this subject.

Shaid

Hey Felix,

Don't take the comments here to heart. I for one would hate the pressure you guys face on a daily basis especially with jo public being an **** like it is.

You guys have a massive workload which realistically cannot be fulfilled. If only real policing was like the TV shows where you can sit there, ponder who done what, where, how and find it was the maths teacher guilty all along.

Some of us do appreciate the work you do

LSherratt

iTrader: (1)

I've rang the 101 number before to report badger activists in a field fairly close to me. I was on hold for no more than 8 minutes and a response car was out in about 30 minutes. To me that's very good for a NON-emergency number. Like I've said before, in every experience I've had with the police (2 or 3 times) they've been good and I appreciate their work. You all just need to look at the bigger picture.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

I'm no fan of the police but there are some decent ones and some **** holes, felix seems to fit into the first category, I feel for the ones that are out there trying to make a difference and just facing an uphill battle against lack of funding and man power.

It's impossible for them to turn out to every single call when there just aren't enough of them, so of course they have to prioritise and at the end of the day unless there is a major incident you can't expect officers to just walk out of someones house that has just had a death in the family to chase half a dozen kids scrumping apples from the back garden or hedge/fence hoping.

It's the law that's an *** not those that enforce it and funding needs to be looked at, all these pointless enquires that cost millions and government consultants that no one ever listens to or implements the recommendations unless they suit the current political agenda want canning for a start.

It's understandable that people become frustrated at those on the front line as they generally don't have the intelligence to see the bigger picture, but shooting the messenger is not the solution.

The general public need to get with the program and realise that the powers that be are the problem, you can't expect the police to do a good job when one is tied to a desk and the other is sent out with one boot and an arm tied behind his back and all the government are interested in is massaging the crime figures and reducing the budget.

This is a psychological game, they want you to be afraid of crime while appearing to do their best because fear is the best form of control, but all they are really doing is distracting you from the real issues while they maintain the status quo and continue to reap their rewards, it's all so basic it amazes me how people can't see what's going on and just continue with their daily grind feeding the machine, complaining about the state of the country while our multimillionaire political class live the high life at our expense.

They have us all (well not me) running around clucking like chickens pecking each other while they're in the big house and come out to feed us a few crumbs once and a while telling us how fortunate we are to be where we are, let the odd fox in the hen house now and again and it keeps us all nicely in line while they steal all the eggs.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

People are only relaying their own experiences so it's a bit churlish to dismiss it as bs. Ditchy has encapsulated things well above ( good write up btw).

SRSport

They're not really though are they? They make up nonsense about crime stats and offer, among other things, silly suggestive questions which again they really have no idea about. Take Felix's replies, it doesnt take a genius to work out who is making worth while contributions and who is full of hot air.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I literally laughed again at the audacity of the above post.

Do you honestly think I have the time to come on here and make stuff up? If you really believe that, you need therapy, guy, you really do.

In all of Felix's post, which I am sure he believes to be the truth about all officers, in all forces, (for who wants to work for an organistion which DESERVES to be reviled?), he has still not even attempted to answer my question posed near the end of my long post.

Which is this: IF the police KNOW that their public support is being corroded by their government-enforced stance on speeding, which it is, (and I've had this second hand from a chief constable), WHAT ARE THEY DOING ABOUT IT?

If they KNOW that most of their time is being wasted filling in forms, WHAT ARE THEY DOING ABOUT IT?

answer: nothing...because they are too busy taking the money and protecting their jobs, they prefer the staus quo and then whine about following orders etc when challenged.

If you know something is rotten in your job, make an effort to get it changed. If you don't, YOU are part of the problem.

I knew there was plenty wrong in the later years of my job, that's why I was union secretary, and then area rep, and I fought long and hard against government meddling. It didn't get me any promotion, but I knew I was doing the right thing.

What are the police doing??????????

SRSport

From the replies offered in the thread there should be enough for you to work out the answers yourself without any further explanation, but I fear you are far too set in your opinions to listen. I mean you actually believe that the answer is "nothing...because they are this that and the other and whine etc etc"?

Maz

iTrader: (34)

You wouldn't happen to be a public sector employee would you?

leeds_182

iTrader: (2)

When you do a job and get constantly slagged off regardless of what you tend to get bored trying to explain policies, procedures and the real world to people that don't listen.

SRSport

Why, because Im not joining in throwing around cheap criticisms formed by opinions from whatever meets the eye? I realise I get involved with similar threads, e.g. all teachers are evil etc. but these are issues that I, along with the rest of society, are effected by and think its important to remain level headed and objectionable around such topics — although it is much easier and Im sure fun to go with the grain and join in wiggling the judgement finger.

stipete75

Enjoy your relative freedom while you can, the militarised police state is getting ever nearer,
The only way the powers that be would ever get away with this is to keep scaring us with potential"terror attacks" on home ground, ie, 7/7 9/11 lee rigby ect ect.
It's all about complete control.
The police have orders to follow and a job to do.
Just my 2 pence worth

Maz

iTrader: (34)

So is that a yes?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I see YOU have made no attempt to offer an answer either

Is that because there isn't one, or that YOU are so deluded you believe their whining?

Oh...wait...you ARE one aren't you?