london - Six cyclist dead in two weeks
19 November 2013, 06:58 PM
#62
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19 November 2013, 07:03 PM
#63
I drive a car(s), ride motorcycle(s), cycle and walk.
When on a cycle or as a pedestrian I am very conscious of my mortality and therefore behave accordingly. Insurance of any kind would not change this. A lot of cyclists and pedestrians appear to believe themselves invincible however. To date I have only tested this on a motorcycle, and they appeared to be relatively fragile and therefore misguided. I expect when they test their cloak of invincibility with a car/van/truck they die.
Perhaps they should reconsider their position.
When on a cycle or as a pedestrian I am very conscious of my mortality and therefore behave accordingly. Insurance of any kind would not change this. A lot of cyclists and pedestrians appear to believe themselves invincible however. To date I have only tested this on a motorcycle, and they appeared to be relatively fragile and therefore misguided. I expect when they test their cloak of invincibility with a car/van/truck they die.
Perhaps they should reconsider their position.
19 November 2013, 08:34 PM
#64
Why shouldn't there be some form of training for cyclists to use the road with all other vehicles? What's wrong with educating riders good road craft to minimize accidents and maximize awareness of what to watch out for when using the road? Cyclists say we should have good cycle infrastructure like the Netherlands but ignore the fact that from children from the age of 12 have to take a test to ensure they are able to ride safely. Is this not in the interest of cyclists to be educated to use the road and safe?
19 November 2013, 08:55 PM
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Lots of them have, but do you really think drivers would have time to look at a screen whilst drivng. Cars have blind spots too. Being an HGV driver myself I would imagine most of the accidents involving cyclists are due to them trying to cut on the inside of the lorry at junctions , especially when the truck is swinging out before turning left.
19 November 2013, 08:59 PM
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Why shouldn't there be some form of training for cyclists to use the road with all other vehicles? What's wrong with educating riders good road craft to minimize accidents and maximize awareness of what to watch out for when using the road? Cyclists say we should have good cycle infrastructure like the Netherlands but ignore the fact that from children from the age of 12 have to take a test to ensure they are able to ride safely. Is this not in the interest of cyclists to be educated to use the road and safe?
19 November 2013, 09:05 PM
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Lots of them have, but do you really think drivers would have time to look at a screen whilst drivng. Cars have blind spots too. Being an HGV driver myself I would imagine most of the accidents involving cyclists are due to them trying to cut on the inside of the lorry at junctions , especially when the truck is swinging out before turning left.
19 November 2013, 09:46 PM
#76
Think it was after the 4th death last week, there was a news report that said the cycle lanes in London were giving cyclists a false sense of security and it stopped them getting a real appreciation of the real risks they were exposed to.
The same news story also showed that many of the accidents occurred at chaotic junctions and roundabouts, where the cycle lanes stopped 5 meters before the junction and only reappeared 5 meters after the junction leaving the cyclists to battle their way across the junction dicing with the traffic.
Regardless who's to blame, the cyclist has by far the most to lose, so regardless whether they think they're in the right or not there are times when their own safety should override the need to make a point.
The same news story also showed that many of the accidents occurred at chaotic junctions and roundabouts, where the cycle lanes stopped 5 meters before the junction and only reappeared 5 meters after the junction leaving the cyclists to battle their way across the junction dicing with the traffic.
Regardless who's to blame, the cyclist has by far the most to lose, so regardless whether they think they're in the right or not there are times when their own safety should override the need to make a point.
19 November 2013, 09:51 PM
#77
Lol, Jakarta was nuts, 4 up on a scooter, two lane roads, one each direction, with scooters and motorbikes at both sides of the cars, so 4 lanes of bikes. That said, only saw one accident in two weeks, police didn't care what was on the road, just as long as it was moving - place was fantastic though..
19 November 2013, 10:01 PM
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Lol, Jakarta was nuts, 4 up on a scooter, two lane roads, one each direction, with scooters and motorbikes at both sides of the cars, so 4 lanes of bikes. That said, only saw one accident in two weeks, police didn't care what was on the road, just as long as it was moving - place was fantastic though..
19 November 2013, 10:05 PM
#80
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Think it was after the 4th death last week, there was a news report that said the cycle lanes in London were giving cyclists a false sense of security and it stopped them getting a real appreciation of the real risks they were exposed to.
The same news story also showed that many of the accidents occurred at chaotic junctions and roundabouts, where the cycle lanes stopped 5 meters before the junction and only reappeared 5 meters after the junction leaving the cyclists to battle their way across the junction dicing with the traffic.
Regardless who's to blame, the cyclist has by far the most to lose, so regardless whether they think they're in the right or not there are times when their own safety should override the need to make a point.
The same news story also showed that many of the accidents occurred at chaotic junctions and roundabouts, where the cycle lanes stopped 5 meters before the junction and only reappeared 5 meters after the junction leaving the cyclists to battle their way across the junction dicing with the traffic.
Regardless who's to blame, the cyclist has by far the most to lose, so regardless whether they think they're in the right or not there are times when their own safety should override the need to make a point.
Yet the implied solution is for the cyclist to make allowances for the other road users. "Coz they will only *** out worse, innit"
Maybe the solution is to design the road systems in our major cities to truly accommodate the cyclists needs.
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 19 November 2013 at 10:06 PM.
19 November 2013, 10:10 PM
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The above seems to be an argument for designing the roads in favour of the cyclist, because it is clearly working to their disadvantage at the moment.
Yet the implied solution is for the cyclist to make allowances for the other road users. "Coz they will only *** out worse, innit"
Maybe the solution is to design the road systems in our major cities to truly accommodate the cyclists needs.
Yet the implied solution is for the cyclist to make allowances for the other road users. "Coz they will only *** out worse, innit"
Maybe the solution is to design the road systems in our major cities to truly accommodate the cyclists needs.
19 November 2013, 11:44 PM
#84
If everyone who road a bike drove a car and vice-versa, I think we would have a much smaller problem here.
I don't think you can legislate your way around this one. Education and separation are perhaps the go.
I think if you are going to have motor vehicles and cyclists sharing the same piece of road, then it is sadly, more a matter of what you consider to be an acceptable level of mortality.
20 November 2013, 02:30 PM
#85
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When I was learning to drive, I was taught that if I cannot see an HGV driver in his wing mirror, then chances are he cannot see me either.
Advice that would work for cyclists as well.
The blind spot in that video is quite worrying. For lorries that regularly travel in to cities I would support some kind of mandatory solution. Proximity buzzer maybe?
Advice that would work for cyclists as well.
The blind spot in that video is quite worrying. For lorries that regularly travel in to cities I would support some kind of mandatory solution. Proximity buzzer maybe?
20 November 2013, 02:38 PM
#86
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I think there is a need to educate cyclists as well. Undertaking , holding onto stationary vehicles at lights, making themselves more visable, wear head protection, and my personal favourite riding 2 abreast on country lanes
20 November 2013, 02:41 PM
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Quite - in Holland, basically everyone who drives a car on the road will also ride a bike, and that is a big difference to here.
If everyone who road a bike drove a car and vice-versa, I think we would have a much smaller problem here.
I don't think you can legislate your way around this one. Education and separation are perhaps the go.
I think if you are going to have motor vehicles and cyclists sharing the same piece of road, then it is sadly, more a matter of what you consider to be an acceptable level of mortality.
If everyone who road a bike drove a car and vice-versa, I think we would have a much smaller problem here.
I don't think you can legislate your way around this one. Education and separation are perhaps the go.
I think if you are going to have motor vehicles and cyclists sharing the same piece of road, then it is sadly, more a matter of what you consider to be an acceptable level of mortality.
and dangerous.