tony de wonderful

If someone wants to kidnap you, or rob your house while you sleep, I'm not sure what good an alarm is going to do.

jods

Save money and rehouse a disturbed mastiff - just don't have kids around that you want to have a greater than 10% chance of survival.

Matteeboy

I've just fitted better locks. But that's just for insurance purposes; I don't miss the constant security worries in a city.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Interesting tangent, but it often always is - the nicer your house, the more attention it gains. And that is regardless of the area, in fact its worse when you live in a nice area because it gains attention amongst scum as somewhere to have rich pickings. This can be in the sticks or in town, the former being more organised crime and more nasty as result.

But my take on it is that with the right system, a little invested is piece of mind. I'm not talking about that "A1 Alarms" crap that most houses have that all they do is sound a siren, which is 100% useless bar annoying your neighbors whom 99% WILL ignore it if you are out (unless its a master blaster). Thats why the systems I have in the UK dial my my mobile for alarm/fire alerts and dial chosen friends/family on a panic which can be triggered via a duress code. I also have exterior PIRs but they just sound a sounder (with option to trigger CCTV). I "should" use a security firm, but I fell out with Chubb and ADT with the way they treat their business customers.

At our property in Spain, its one notch better. Bearing in mind this is a area out in the sticks where our (Spanish) neighbours go out to work and leave the gates and back doors open on their houses! But being an isolated area we have a Securitas system, similar to ADT/redcare, but far more versatile than the Honeywell/Galaxy systems that they install. Mainly because its more user friendly with fully remote controlled, built in GSM module (mobile phone), interior and exterior sensing and calls their call center to verify an alarm or situation and they will call the guardia. The SOS and duress function will automatically call the police. The alarm can be set and unset via phone, troublesome zones can be isolated remotely too (handy when in the UK). It has microphone intruder/duress verification words so the call centre knows if there is a situation (gun to my head). They can even call us and tell us how long the power has been off so we know the food in the freezer is knackered . The only thing it doesn't have is a exterior siren - because it doesn't need one! (And the installer quite rightly said they are a waste of time). This costed about €850 the bulk cost being the 8 exterior PIRs (the interior stuff was only €250) and a further €35 a month fully maintained. Which includes batteries for wireless sensors and free faulty part replacement.

So far its served its purpose once. As just last month a criminal gang have decided to target the area systematically break into each house one by one (over twenty so far). Worse, they target occupied houses during siesta, which is not nice, but we were in, and the exterior system zone on the front was on and activated. They only got as far as the driveway - they weren't expecting confrontation and legged it back over the gate. It wouldn't matter if they smashed a sensor as they set a tamper alarm via loss of signal and they would have already triggered the system from movement anyway. The Gaurdia Civil were there in just over 5 minutes, which considering where we are is astonishing- they blockaded the whole estate for the rest of the afternoon checking vehicles as there are only two ways in and out via car I could never see that happening in the UK!

If I could get that system and level of service in the UK I would have it here too. We use ADT at work for the redcare and they are terrible and expensive both for service and equipment. Basically they know we need it for the insurance and they bend us over the table for it

Anyhoo exterior sensors are Optex VX-402R wireless PIRs, and the control panel is Essence security, had some teething troubles with two outdoor sensors upon installation but touch wood so far so good. Unfortunately it appears you can't get the Essence security panels in the UK. Pity. But the Optex exterior sensors are available; their only caveat is they need to mounted roughly between shoulder and waist level and obviously being wireless do have a finite range. Battery life is over a year up to two years with alkaline and something like four years with lithium batteries.

tony de wonderful

I see more and more 'fortified' type gates and high walls in the area I grew up in. Many of these houses are Victorian and they weren't built like this, the Victorians had gates but they were more 'ornamental' not made of 4 inch thick wood and steel like now.

High walls and big gates seem to be a third world thing. I see it a lot overseas; the elites hide behind them in their controlled space and shut out the outside world.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Like Jo'burg /Cape Town in South Africa? I don't think its quite that bad yet.

TBH I'm thinking about fortifying my house a bit more...its open fronted, but I'd so love to have high walls and gates......But, that's mainly to stop the cats pissing on the wheels on my cars


(And why is it always the wheels?.....does the smell of baked Ferrodo make it think its a another Tom stalking "their" territory? )

< Goes off to invent/patent brake pads with cat deterrent >

Matteeboy

No one would dare burgle my house ;-)

Spoon

Ali, my alarm system does all and more of what your system does in Spain so they are available here in the UK. Like everything though, you get a big name to recommend a domestic system and you'll get what they push, often a basic set-up with basic everything else to suit a basic domestic install.

As for sirens, normal external sirens are indeed hardly worth it. However, I was sourced a brand new Police siren and strobe. This was modified to work on the system and operate only when the intruder/tamper and fire side of things were triggered. For normal input/output issues, i.e power failure, low back-up batteries etc the standard siren sounds. This means the Police siren is only heard if it really is important and it is extremely loud on all tone choices. The strobe lights up a huge area in the daylight and at night the sky is positively blue.

All issues are sent via SMS to my phone too. I can also use my phone to open my gates, turn on lights, heating, siren etc.

Any level of security is possible if you have someone willing to put some thought, beyond a basic install, in to it.

As for gates and such, well, I've chosen to be behind them and completely hidden behind acres of a 15x8 perimeter hedge with 40ft- 80ft trees behind that, and totally unseen fencing in between the hedging (for dogs), for many years and love it. Some people prefer to be private, others don't, some clearly like to show off and flaunt everything they may or think they may have. Ultimately it is one's choice.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I'm sure there are. But when I've been looking to update/upgrade my alarm in the UK to something like what I have in Spain, what I have seen available has been pretty clunky and non-intuitive. Granted there are a few systems out there, but its a minority, as many seem to be plain old-tech (albeit robust). OK setting/configuring my alarm via a smartphone app ( https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...roid.mycontrol )is not a necessity, but just one example of a handy feature that I'd be interested in a system I'm upgrading to.

In ADT's case for the business systems - its ancient even though its just a few years old - it does nothing more or better than my 15year old Gardtec can (which itself is a 20yr old design ). Point being the Honeywell Galaxy (or Domonial) is more expensive just for the basic control panel without all the add-ons required to get it to work, and even then its still a basic system. The crux, as you rightly pointed out though is if I want a subscription support service I have to use their approved equipment. So there is no choice; Just look at the features that systems from ADT USA offer vs ADT UK.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

OK, I'm making the decision to have a tidy up here, becuase this is just getting into a downward spiral now.

So lets just leave comments and discussion to things directly on topic from now on. Unless Dindongler wants it to carry on within this thread (seeing he started the thread), in which case just say the word and I'll put it all back.

dpb

Blimey, fisticuffs

Is this for real

tony de wonderful

How much would a panic room cost?

Dingdongler

How would you fit that in your one bed rented flat?

dpb

It's not really just the elites though is it, in SA its just de rigour once you've got anything at all
If police ain't interested / able to deter investigate incidents between majority poor...

Friends my girlfriend we stayed with in 2009 had a 4' dura wall and a sliding gate and this is very basic newish 'development' - they've just got tarmac road.


Found out recently his uncle put a contract on him, just to steal his possessions ( this was twenty years ago when he first emigrated from zim

dpb

I reckon the security business is to blame almost entirely for those Victorian gates, it's a self fulfilling prophecy ,if you can scare people -they'll buy.

You just don't get away with murder here

hodgy0_2

What a cop out

Dingdongler

Not sure what has gone on here.

If you have something to say Hodgy, feel free. I don't give a sh7t about your opinion but it's a free world.

tony de wonderful

I was thinking of you, quivering like a jelly in your moderately upmarket suburban dwelling.

cster

Touché!

hodgy0_2

Just tell Ali B to reinstate the posts he deleted, apparently he needs your permission

Turbohot

Looks like I missed reading a b!tchfight. Come on, put those posts back up, Ali.

We live in virtually a no-risk area, but I unfortunately experienced a theft when Mr. T and I were asleep upstairs. Left me shaken for a long time, but got better with time. It was my fault, I left the kitchen window open to invite them in- silly me. Lesson learnt.

Some people have no experience of theft, but they get vicariously warned, and put precautionary measures in; just in case. That's fine, but every so often when anyone wants to upgrade their alarms, it could be their ever-growing paranoia or their boasting of their wealth in public. They shouldn't boast, as that could make them vulnerable to theft tbh. Then again, they might mention house alarms every now and again so that everyone knows that they are the fat cat made of money, of course, but they are untouchable. Ah, well.

Having a decent alarm system is one thing, but having it so James Bond that not even a shadow can look at your property with one eye is simply a sign of ever-increasing paranoia. if that's what the wealth does to one, I'm better off being poor. If anyone says that "it's to protect my family from harm, I don't care about my house and possessions", well, you don't need to be too worried if you have just a decent alarm system to your house. If you continue to worry like this, you may end up fitting an alarm each on the bodyies of your family members ffs.

Isolated mansion owners in the middle of nowhere can justify top of the range alarm system. But in urban settings (even the housing estates in the rural setting) with low level theft risk just a decent-ish alarm should do, if one is that worried. No need for some laser network so that even Tom Cruise has to bend in three to get through it. Well, unless you have a house with gates like Tulisa's.

A local paper said that some drug dealers in Liverpool with 50 Cent style gated houses have fantastic alarm systems. They also have vicious dogs if alarm fails. I can understand why they are so paranoid.

tony de wonderful

Yeah who fears theft more than a thief?

Spoon

Turbs, you'll need a 3rd category. Not even my pals or family know I have the set-up I do have and haven't for 20 years. I'm also the least paranoid person on planet earth.

Let us not forget you're talking about a house alarm that can almost be purchased for what lots of households waste on bills every year by not getting the best deals available. Hardly worthy of a boast, is it? That said, all boasters should be shot.

Absolutely not. I'll never grasp why security equals paranoia to some.


You now need to step away from the bong.

Ah, so now it is acceptable for some in your eyes. Thinking it through a bit more I see.

Turbohot

Spoon, my post wasn't aimed at you at all, nor was it aimed at anyone else. I was not thinking it a bit more. You read a bit more of my post where I demonstrated what I already knew. I'm glad you've read the bit where I say that people living in isolated mansions in the sticks are justified. You say in one of the posts that your dwelling is of this sort, so I understand why you'd need top of the range alarm system. too right, you would.


I was talking in general, and I stick to my view that excessive security is a sign of paranoia.

No, I don't do any bong and things like that. Instead paranoia is a side effect of too much bong. So, I'll throw it back at the paranoids.

Hope it's clear.

Turbohot

That's^ poetic but narrow.

The one who fears the most could be the one bitten very badly in past for what you know. Like I faced a theft once when we were asleep upstairs. Believe me, it's not the experience that leaves you the next day. But it generally gets better with the time passing.

But yes, thieves would worry to be found out, so they would take excessive measures to protect themselves, before they face any theft. Their measures could also be projective.

Some people could be just worriers, and lodge the fear in their head based on others' experiences.

In summary, not every most fearful person is a thief, although some can be. But every most fearful person is a very fearful person for sure.

Spoon

By default though, Turbs, you were aiming the post at me also and confirm that in this last post that excessive security equals paranoia. Though of course your opinion is your own and you're more than welcome to it and you did add a get out clause for certain properties.

I've only ever said my gaff is out of the way too. I'd never be one so crass as to call it a mansion, you've assumed that, privacy is also security so I live in a house in the country and drive a vehicle, that's enough.
Yes, I'm likely to only see 1 person a day here and that'd be the postman but I wouldn't have it any other way. Living on an estate or in a town would simply not appeal to me but I have friends that wouldn't like to leave a city, apparently.

Turbohot

Of course I said excessive security is a sign of paranoia, and I'll say it again. When I say 'excessive', it means that it is irrational.

Ok, I presumed that you lived in a mansion. If you live in an isolated country house, it justifies your need for excessive security. I wouldn't even call it excessive, if it's to prevent real threats.

For example, you say you have excessive security for privacy as well. That's cool, but surely you fear that someone would invade your privacy. Yes? Now if the security is excessive, so is your fear. If the fear is smaller or even as big as the realistic threat (not the presumed one), it's not paranoia. if your fear is bigger than the 'presumed' threat which may not even exist, it is paranoia.


Hope it's clear again.


Saying all that, one should feel free to have an alarm system, if one likes. One has a right to be paranoid, if one wants. One doesn't have to justify it to anyone. Free country. People like me may have our opinion on that, but and I don't think I or anyone will worry about anyone having an alarm system or anything else TBH.

Spoon

Excessive in your book, normal in others. So, normal security for some isn't a sign of paranoia. Irrational is another matter, anything irrational reflects negatively but irrational isn't the same as excessive.[/quote]

It is security, not excessive.

No, I said privacy is security, just in another more simple form. I don't fear anything either. I just live in a space with security.


It could be if you didn't make it hard work.


Not paranoid, merely equipped with a family/home/belongings security device.

Dingdongler

As I said feel free to say anything you like, it doesn't bother me.

I'll leave Ali B to decide whether he wants to reinstate the posts, I'm not bothered either way. However I'll presume that your posts, much like those of TDW are not actually relevant to the topic of conversation

Turbohot

And that is fine, Spoon.