johnfelstead

the light sequence is

Red
Red/Amber
Green
Amber
Red

Red means stop, do not pass the white line on the road
Red/Amber means get ready to procede
Green means you may pass the white painted line
Amber means stop if it is safe to do so, otherwise pass through the white painted line.
Red means stop.

If you pass the line and it is amber then you are allowed to do that, you cannot be procecuted for passing through an Amber light. The Amber light is timed to allow you enough time to stop if you are travelling within the speed limit without having to make any sudden or abrupt actions.

John, 1977 road safety quiz champion for the north west of england. I know the highway code like the back of my hand. Zero points on my licence mate.

If you are sure it was yellow, go to court, it's your right so exercise that right.

(too many people think amber means go for it, it is actually a warning period for you to enable you to stop safely and gently, you should have stopped if you were able to safely!!! But you still shouldnt be procecuted for violating a red light, if anything you should be prosecuted for dangerous driving if the police man thought you were pushing it rather than stopping when you could easily have done so. He hasnt called you for that, so contest it)

[Edited by johnfelstead - 5/23/2002 6:54:33 PM]

DJ Dunk

iTrader: (5)

I'm sure it was amber.

Take this into account though and tell me what you think John . . .

The lanes split 1 into 2 about 100 yards from the lights.
The copper was the car directly ahead of me.
He stopped in the left lane.
I kept going.
It was definately Amber not red when I passed.
I may have accellarated but only when it was green.

What do you think ?

I currently have a clean licence and proud of it. Don't want to affect that for something I didn't do.

Will I have to pay costs if I lose ?

[Edited by DJ Dunk - 5/23/2002 7:00:40 PM]

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

John

If he does that will he then get done for dangerous driving or is it too late?

Sal

DJ Dunk

iTrader: (5)

I just read this on the net :

I'm stuffed

johnfelstead

oh dear! If he was doing a similar speed to you when the lights went Amber, and he stopped for those lights without any problems, then you should have stoped as Amber means stop if it is safe to do so.

You would get screwed on that evidence as he was in front of you and he managed to stop yet you chose not to.

He has issued the wrong penalty though! You should be prosecuted for dangerous driving or similar, not for passing through a red light.

johnfelstead

that quote is wrong.

Amber means stop if it is safe to do so!!!!

It does not mean Stop!!!!

There is a big diference and whoever wrote that is an *******.

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

Just tried ringing a copper mate of mine for his opinion but his phone is on ansaphone

I'll let you know what he thinks as soon as I get hold of him

If it was me in the same situation I'd want as much information as I could gather before making a decision either way.

Sal

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

For the definitive guide to traffic lights see The Highway Code

DJ Dunk

iTrader: (5)

Sal - I'd be really grateful if you could get an opinion from your friend

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

Judging by the Highway code you were wrong to proceed but I still don't see how you can be done for going through a red light when it wasn't

johnfelstead

In laymans terms that means stop if it is safe to do so.

johnfelstead

and if your on a corner, take extra care.

The guy issued the wrong penalty, you were in the wrong to pass the amber light based on what you are saying though. So the question is, do you feel lucky?

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

No probs - will let you know as soon as I get hold of him, I'll be seeing him tomorrow night anyway as we always go down our local on Fridays for a few bevvys together

DJ Dunk

iTrader: (5)

Not really It always seem theres some technicality that they can screw you on

I'm innocent guvnor, honest I am

Sal - A final coppers opinion would be good

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

Ok just spoken to my mate and it doesn't look too good. He says if they've done you for going through a red light then they are saying that's what you did, in court it would be your word against theirs. If there were two coppers in the car only one would have issued you with the ticket and it would be his word against yours in court, however if you said it wasn't red they could call the other copper that was in the car to give evidence - no guesses whose side he'd be on!

He says that 9 times out of 10 someone caught going through a red light will argue that it was amber - they're used to it, they get it all the time.

My friends advice is to take the points and pay the fine and put it down to experience.

I'd better point out that the copper I was speaking to is my best mate, more like a bruv to me actually (he calls my parents mum and dad!) and would genuinely give me the best advice he could for you - he's a top bloke

Sal

Chris L

Based on what John has said about amber and red - does it mean that this government has got it wrong???

Chris

DJ Dunk

iTrader: (5)

Thaks for that Sal

And thanks everyone for their advice.

Not happy, but looks like I'm going to have to take the points, although there was only one copper in the car.

How long do they stay on your licence for ? Never had points before

Sad to say it will make me think twice about helping out the law in future.

[Edited by DJ Dunk - 5/23/2002 7:58:18 PM]

carl

What it says on DETR websites and in the Highway Code is largely irrelevant -- the important thing is what the appropriate law says (they used to have the various road-related laws in the back of the Highway Code, but I don't know if they still do). Remember the Highway Code is a guide (witness extensive use of the word 'should') not law. Bizarrely though, there seems to be an offence of 'failure to comply with the Highway Code' -- don't know how enforceable it is.

johnfelstead

funny chris, as you and sal have pulled up two diferent government web sites and they contradict each other.

Sals is the correct one.

And yes, the highway code is a code of conduct, it isnt the law. It's basically a breakdown of the law into a form most people can understand.

johnfelstead

actually, what you posted up chris is the young persons guide to road use. It's the more simplistic version of the highway code aimed at school children.

Sal posted up the big boys and girls version.

I am saying nothing.

carl

Yes, but there shouldn't be simplistic versions of STOP and DON'T STOP. Either you're required to stop, or you're not.

sebastian

Why bother with the hassle for a measly 60 quid and 3 points?

you're in the wrong anyway i m afraid.

Not saying I never run ambers but it is bloody annoying in london where people do it all the time and it buggers up right-turners, not to mention the danger.

carpet

Dunk

You might want to change your wording if you decide to fight it, not sure if it was safe to stop implies you werent paying attention.

I would fight it, if hes done you for running a red and it was amber '**** him' dirty filthy law ( present company accepted of course ! )

If they then say its illegal to run an amber light you can have them on a technicality, he should of done you for running the amber ( if it does actually mean stop ). In this case he has charged you for the wrong offence, its your word against his, therefore they cant actually do you ( copper or not ).

Shaun27

However agrieved you may feel, justifiably I might add if your account is spot on, I would just take the fine and points and it would really p1ss me off doing this myself but you know deep down that you will get even more screwed if you take it to court. This country is an *** and the government and courts are so anti-cars that you simply don't stand a chance.....

The annoying thing is though that I bet this copper, whilst driving his own private car, would have done exactly the same as you 90% of the time!

BTW I have a TS10 from being flashed by a camera, apparently 1.01 Seconds after the lights changed red..... This was approaching a big roundabout on a dual carriageway (A417 if anyone knows it) in the wet and I thought it much safer to carry on than brake quite hard in the wet but what's the point arguing in this country? If it's a road violation you are guilty until proven innocent..... Oh and this was a couple of years ago and it doesn't seem to have had much impact on my insurance, I am still paying what I consider an excellent premium for my Evo.....and this is with an SP30, also from a couple of years ago at the same time! THAT was a bad month.....

[Edited by Shaun27 - 5/24/2002 3:41:39 AM]

Chris L

Thanks John

The websites were just the result of a simple search on Google - just goes to show though - even if the government sites can't get it right, what chance do we have?

Chris

Active

I was (up to three years ago) a traffic signal engineer for Nottinghamshire County Coucil and as such was very often called into court to give evidence on the workings of traffic lights in cases such as yours.
Believe me the bobbies often get it wrong! I forget how many times I have got people off charges due to the evidence I have given. And I might add been threatened by the police officer prosicuting for doing so.
My advice is..go to court, plead innocent (without being cocky) state your case, with your companions evidence and stand your ground. You will be no worse off. Beleive me! been there too often.
Good luck.
Bob

Active

Carl.... Amber.. stop if safe to do so! not if you are approacing the lights at 25mph when the amber shows.
Bob

Timbo33

M8 Amber means stop.....you've been nicked, take the fine on the chin and chalk it up to experience.

In my experience if you take it to court and try to fight it they just fine you more for wasting their time.

Just make sure there aren't any coppers watching you next time

Jolly Green Monster 2

Sorry to hear about this.

Something else not in your favour I am afraid is that your girlfriend will not count as a witness as she was in your car...
She is not an independent witness so it would be your word against the officers... unfortunatly it looks like you'll have to take it.

JGM