PeteH16

Hi guys, after the ***** up I nearly had with this white hawkeye, which is now a famous car I think (for all the wrong reasons) I am looking for some advice on another one before I get my heart set on finding the right one. I'm now looking into the rb320. Can anyone give me any advice? Do these also have head gasket problems etc? And are these worth the extra few grand compared to say a 05 blob sti ?? All advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks :-)

thenewgalaxy

You'll get different opinions by many about that question.

The 05 Blob STi is a cracking car, it has a generally reliable 2.0 unit. It benefits from the desirable wide track and 114x5 pcd which opens up a lot of alloy wheel combinations. Good condition and well maintained ones are becoming harder to find but generally these cars are guaranteed future classic status. They have a lot of tuning potential if you wish to follow that route.

The RB320 is a limited edition car that benefits from uprated suspension and a nice interior. The chassis is largely similar but is fitted with a larger 2.5 litre engine. It runs slightly more power than a 2.0 PPP but unfortunately the engine in stock form appears to be prone to the odd head gasket and/or piston failure. While the rate at which these fail is perhaps not as high as some would imply, it is a problem that can happen and is costly to repair. If the engine is repaired and forged then it makes an outstanding road car. It is probably not a good idea to buy one of these if you intend to heavily modify it but if going for one I would strongly recommend budgeting for a forged build for peace of mind and extra driving pleasure.

I'd base my decision on whether or not I'd prefer the torquier and less peaky feel of the 2.5 and whether or not I was after a limited edition car that I was prepared to particularly cherish.

I'm sure many on here will expand on what I have said, disagree with what I have said or ram the JDM point across

PeteH16

Thanks Richard,
I def' want a limited addition or something slightly harder to get your hands on at least, which is why I had my heart set on a white hawkeye sti.
I have a 04 blob wrx but have always loved the hawkeyes, I very much doubt I would tune my next one as I haven't tuned my current one, but def want more power. I also don't think I can justify 16k ish for a nice rb320 if I had to spend another 3k on it just for peace of mind. My head is saying just forget the 2.5 hawkeye all together and spend half that ie 8k on a nice sti blob for peace of mind, but my heart is saying go for the 1 i have always loved the look of!
I still want to drive my next 1 as hard as I drive my wrx which if I'm honest has had some very hard outings recently. But isn't that why we all got a scooby in the first place. To spend £16k on a Subaru and be worried to drive it how i drive my current £4k wrx incase the head goes or a piston gives up is starting to seem ludicrous just to have something better looking and rare. Head ache!!

thenewgalaxy

Any car can drop a large bill on you so don't get too scared about what you buy, but it is obviously a good thing to go in with the eyes wide open if you know what I mean.

If you really want a Hawk (they are lovely cars) there are these options then. Go for what you want even if you have to wait to save or find the car you want.

1. Buy an RB320 and forge it

2. Buy a cheaper but nice spec Hawkeye and forge it

3. Buy either of the above and plan in case you are unlucky - because it is bad luck to have the problem

4. Buy either of the above but with an already forged engine

5. Keep a look out for a JDM (import) hawk (they do come up) with a "stronger" 2.0 twin scroll. There are lots of different types such as the Spec C, standard STi and A-line etc

or 6. A little like 4 and 5 added together, get a Litchfield Type 25 Hawk they have Cosworth forged parts on a 2.5 twin scroll. Elaborate but lovely at the same time.

Osimabu

iTrader: (2)

Or a Litchfield Type 20 Hawk which has the 2.0 engine and none of the 2.5's potential problems (but will cost more than an RB320 as they're a lot rarer and more desirable).

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Just buy Bodski's JDM Hawk £11/12k job done.

Osimabu

iTrader: (2)

Best suggestion so far!

LuckyWelshchap

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

They are great cars, but guaranteed future classics?... I think not! Please take the Subaru blinkers off.

The only Subaru guaranteed to be a classic is the 22B! One or two other models may become desirable over time, but I will wager you an 05 STI will not be amongst them!

Osimabu

iTrader: (2)

I beg to differ. Every car becomes a classic, regardless of what it is. You just have to wait long enough. I can remember in the early 1980s thinking a Mk3 Cortina would never, ever go back up in value, but they have done, possibly simply due to rarity of course.

Subarus in general are such a rare sight on the roads that they're all guaranteed to become sought after eventually, but it may well take 30 years or more. Some (22Bs) will be worth more than others, in the same way that a Mk1 2 door Escort will always be worth more than a Mk5 for example, but they'll all go up.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

No, you are confusing a classic car with a rare car or an enthusiasts car. A Mk3 Cortina may have increased in value recently but that is solely due to its rarity as you point out.

A classic car has to have lasting beauty, worth or significance. An E-Type Jag is a classic, a DB5 is a classic, an SL gullwing Mercedes is a classic, an Austin Allegro is not even though there are so few of them left.

The 22B ticks the boxes on significance and worth, an 05 blobeye STI does not.... an great enthusiast's car maybe, but a classic?... not significant or well designed enough to ever qualify!

thenewgalaxy

Not every classic has to be a super scarce limited edition homologation special.

And for the record, the DB5 was crap even when it came out.

There are an awful lot of E types knocking around.

I would argue that 1.9 205 GTis and Golf 16v MkIIs are classics for being brilliant and capable performance cars, the widetrack blob STi will go the same way along with many of the STi configurations.

I guess whether something is a classic or not depends on the buyer and market.

toneh

iTrader: (1)

One thing that Subaru has on its side to help nice existing models increase in value is the fact they , rust , blow engines and get broke for spares , or just get broke for spares anyway
The same way it's helped , deltas , fords , jaguar , Alfa ,
A truly mint early classic are probably increasing in value as we speak
If not at worse it will be holding its value
It just takes time , it will happen

scoobyboy1

iTrader: (16)

It sold an hour after the advert was put up!!!!

But I do know of a standard black widetrack blobeye for sale with 36k miles on the clock!! Contact Lucko on here as he is getting ready for sale soon as he has just bought a nice JDM Hawkeye!!!

Picklemaroo

iTrader: (1)

Good advice there Pete, that's great low mileage

LuckyWelshchap

So, what's the definition of 'classic'?

I know you've given your opinion of a definition but all those characteristics are in the eye of the beholder, and of course your definition is subjective.

How many people (non-Subaru enthusiasts) would say '22B' in their first 10, even 20 selections of a 'classic car'?
How many Subaru enthusiasts would list it in their first 5?

The definition 'Vintage' is easy - cars between 1919 & 1930.
'Classic' isn't.

In fact, while researching I dug up this from Wikipedia:

It's the site's UK definition of a 'Classic Car':

There is no fixed definition of a classic car.

Two taxation issues do impact however, leading to some people using them as cutoff dates.

All cars built before January 1, 1973, are exempted from paying the annual road tax vehicle excise duty. This is then entered on the license disc displayed on the windscreen as "historic vehicle" (if a car built before this date has been first registered in 1973 or later, then its build date would have to be verified by a recognized body such as British Motor Heritage Foundation to claim tax-free status).

HM Revenue and Customs define a classic car for company taxation purposes as being over 15 years old and having a value in excess of £15,000.[4]

Additionally, popular acclaim through a large number of classic car magazines plays an important role in whether a car comes to be regarded as a classic. It is all subjective and a matter of opinion.

The elimination of depreciation is a reason for buying a classic car; this is a major cost of owning a modern car.
Picking 'future classics' that are current 'bangers' is a pastime of people into classic cars in the UK. Successfully picking and buying one can result in a profit for the buyer as well as providing transport.

An immaculate well cared for prestige model with high running costs, that impacts its value, but is not yet old enough to be regarded as a classic, could be a good buy, for example."

STi Blob's got a chance it seems.

Looks like the wife's Corsa CDTi will be in the family for the next couple of generations at least......................

scoobyboy1

iTrader: (16)

Nice buy for someone, especially with the mileage and the fact its a widetrack, and in the best colour Black

Picklemaroo

iTrader: (1)

Yep same as my beast not great pic but here you go

Picklemaroo

iTrader: (1)

I took new galaxy advice and link to a 05 sti for sale and bought it ! Was great advice

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Significance

Significance, beauty of design

No they're not, but the Mk1 Golf GTI is.

Many of the STI configurations???? LOL! How many Quattro variations are classics, how many Deltas, how many Escorts. Almost only one of each basically!

The 22B will be the one, the rest will be forgotten especially anything after the 'iconic classic' (ironic eh?) version! No bugeye, newage or hatch will be remembered in 25 years time except by a handful of enthusiasts

Nope just cos you like an 05 STI does not make it a classic. I love my Merc... but it will never be a classic!!

Picklemaroo

iTrader: (1)

I also feel it could be a future classic

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

05 wide track a classic.

22b
Type R/RA
P1
S202
Blob Spec C / RA/RAR
Hawk Spec C
In short Special Editions, of which I have missed a few but you get the picture, the 05 wide track may be one of the best new age subaru's but special it aint, and won't be worth anything much other than being a parts donor, you only need to look at the way the other best new age the Bug Sti has gone to see where the 05 wide track is headed, donor parts for classics.

Picklemaroo

iTrader: (1)

Oh so that's why they hold their price so well then £9k for a mint 05 sti suggests classic is perhaps on the cards ?

thenewgalaxy

Darn right, you missed the best one

In my opinion, after people have finished messing around with them and they fall into the hands of the wrong types, the low mileage and unabused ones that remain will come to command a premium and be considered "classics".

I don't expect anyone to agree with me, it is just my opinion.

I think that some of you lot are confusing "vintage" cars that feature on the front cover of Octane with those mint and low mileage older cars that feature in the adverts throughout the rest of the magazine. There are plenty of run of the mill cars that feature throughout that have become desirable for a whole host of reasons.

In answer to your thoughts on the Golf MkI and II, Escorts, Deltas etc I'd class most of the top end models there are classics.

You may love your Merc, I don't know which one it is but I know this for sure. If it's a C270 it probably won't become a classic. But if it's a C63 and it's looked after then one day someone will want to pay over the odds to own it and in my opinion that would make it a "classic".

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Nope just the Mk1 Golf GTI, the Integrale, the Escort Cosworth... just the top model or the first of its kind...

Nope a C63 will never be a classic, it's a good car, but it doesn't tick the boxes...

As for an 05 STI not a cat in hell's chance! If you want a classic Subaru buy a 22B or possibly as an outside bet a P1... other than that you're wasting your time!

thenewgalaxy

I will, when I can get the finance

Picklemaroo

iTrader: (1)

There is a theme here 22b and p1 are much older cars and much nearer that age of becoming classic. people's perception of what is a classic changes with time, 05 sti may not be perceived as a classic now because they are far too young yet ! It does come down to everyone's own personal views and taste as to what is a classic and this changes with time . Consensus will determine the classic status of any scoob not a prediction ....think it's too early to tell. Although I have been told a number of times by keeping such a car mint and original could maintain its value and I emphasise maintain rather than depreciate...that's a sign of a potential classic ...perhaps? opinions are good and bound to clash

Anyways how did this thread go down this line instead of that nightmare white hawkeye I bought ! Ha ha and giving Pete advice?

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

It's nothing to do with age. The 22B was a classic the day it was released. The Veyron will be a classic and it's on sale today! Same with GTR. The 05 STI is a good car, maybe even a great car, but it's too plentiful and ordinary to ever be a classic. It isn't that great to look at, didn't break any new ground and was mass produced in a sea of other similar models.

LuckyWelshchap

Evolution, fellow enthusiast, evolution.

But that's for other marques

PeteH16

Ha ha cheers for the advice guys, I've been researching the hawkeye litchfield type 25 all day and it certainly seems to tick all the boxes, it's got the looks that I'm after and crazy performance stats!! More bhp per ton than the Porsche 997!!? But I can't seem to find what colours they came in and more importantly the price tag on them, I know they're going to be silly money but I just can't find how silly we're talking. And how likely it is to actually find one for sale!?