And there it is. I don't agree with you so I must be a racist, homophobic or against people with diabilities.

 

You're the one that lumped this in with "political correctness", saying it "disgusts you". This is not political correctness, this is about equality.

Again, do you want the right to be able to discriminate on the basis of race, sexuality or disability?

(of course when referring to public/professional worlds; what you do in your own time is up to you provided you aren't going to cause harm)

 

Clearly he wants to be able to dislike, despise, discriminate against whoever he wants, and if you challenge that, then he has the imbecile comeback of 'political correctness' to throw at the argument. I don't know why you even bother discussing things with him.

 

If people want to be straight I am fine with that.

If people want to be gay I am fine with that.

If they want to kiss each other in public I am fine with that also. What I do sometimes find annoying (not sure why) is when two people, albeit man and woman, two guys or two girls, is when they go on a complete tongue-fest whilst in a restaurant where I am.

 

I want the right to be able decide for myself what I do and do not approve of.

It is not about equality though is it. How can marriage, which by definition is the union between a man and a woman, be equal to that between two men? Equality doesn't come into it because it isn't the same thing. Homosexuals already have the same rights through civil partnership. Now they want to change the definition of an ancient tradition.

And what I really don't understand is why they would want to get married in a church? The same church that follow the teachings of a book that includes such verses as:

•Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."1

•Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

•1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

•Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."


Now I am not a religious man, so I do not agree with such verses but it doesn't make sense to me why gay people would want to get married in a church where the above beliefs exist.

May be that is why I just don't see what the issue is. Confusion.

 

What I find interesting about the political debate of gay marriage is how Labour and LibDem are indicating that the Tories are living in the past and showing their true colours, by not being 100% in favour of gay marriage.

Yet I would argue, and the result of the poll of this thread and the gay marriage thread shows, that it is not as black and white as they are making out, and certainly not shared by the rest of the UK. The internal conflict the party is having is MUCH more representative of the general population than the oppositions' blanket 'yes' vote, which is surely just a simplistic appeal for the gay vote.

 

We're all doomed, no point in going to heaven, there's not one ****** in there

 

how true that is!

 

There is no God, there is no heaven, the Bible is made up by superstitious men living in superstitious non-scientific times. Being gay is genetically inherited most likely passed down through the X chromosome. What does it matter who ends up shacking up with who and unless you are a religious bigot why would you care?

 

A fair comment, although I wouldn't see it as purely an appeal for the gay vote as the likes of F1, Martin, PeteB and Telboy demonstrate (assuming none of them are bent).

 

 

Just a hunch, but I think the real reason for your confusion could be that the law in fact has nothing to do with allowing same-sex marriage in a church. Last I checked, it specifically forbade it in CoE churches, and gave an opt-out for places of worship belonging to any religion that didn't want to perform the ceremonies there.

Is that a little clearer now?

 

Well seems like the poll is bubbling along at an average of a 2 to 1 vote in favour of tolerance, intelligence and common sense. I must say I am surprised as I thought this would go the other way on Scoobynet.

 

So what's the point of the ruling then?

Surely it should either a yes or no, not a ' well, yes you can, but not in certain places and not if they don't like you'.

Like a said, a complete waste of time and money.

 

Was having a spirited debate with the missus the other week about this - I'm all for equal rights but I think slowly the 'norm' is changing in society. The natural law is that male+female is the way things work. The way lesbians and gays get painted on Tv and in the media - I feel it makes it look like there are a lot more of them than there actually are.

I know it's a lame example but if you ever watch the 'four in a bed' programme on channel 4 - there's always 1 couple that are lesbian/gay. Now if you do the maths - it shows that statistically 25% of couples are gay/lesbian?!?!

Yes same sex people can have civil partnerships etc but where do we draw the line? There will come a day when the heterosexuals are seen as wrong and we will be fighting for our rights!

Equal rights = YES
The view that lesbian/gay couples should be able to do everything a hetero couple can = NO

I know that sounds contradictory but I hope it makes sense?!

 

Seems a fair point to me. But, beware of the tree huggers.

 

It seems we've already got to the point somewhat,that if straight couples/people speak out and say i don't think gays should have equal rights in some things,then we're wrong,anti gay,living in the past.....

 

If you'd taken the trouble to research how many mixed-sex marriages currently take place outside of places of worship, you'd probably never have asked that question. I'll save you the bother of looking it up now anyhow, and tell you it's more than two-thirds.

The absurdity of the first part of your post gives the lie to that comment though, doesn't it.

 

It's a shame but that is what it is starting to feel like.
Irony is obviously lost on these people! And I mean tree huggers, not gay people!

 

Well why shouldn't they have equal rights? That's equal not more!

Several of you are coming at this like 'Oh my God if this caarries on the poofters will have as many rights as us more superiior heterosexuals and that's not right'

Get over yourselves!

 

I dont think gays really give a flying toss whether anyone thinks it is acceptable, they arent going to abandon their same sex partners to go and marry an opposite sex partner based on a survey on a Subaru website and more than you would go and shack up with your mate.

I don't think anyone gets "converted", it isn't a religion, it is humans acting on their urges, I know gays are overrepresented in the media but then it is quite a traditional gay career, I think other minorities can be over represented, the BBC is so desperate to be PC, hip and trendy it makes me shudder.

I just cant get bothered about same sex relationships, you see what goes on round the world, famine, war, gang rape, murder, human trafficking, death by stoning, massacres etc it is such a non issue, I would only see it as a problem if the human race depended on it, then they would have to impregnate each other a few times, and that can be done artificially.

I dont know why everyone has to then say those of us who are comfortable with homosexuality existing have to be "Gay Lovers".

I think even on here attitudes are changing, I got a lot of my views from my dad, he wasnt overly homophobic but used to refer to them as "Wooly Woofters" or "Poofters", still does but he has mellowed, my mum has a gay mate and he services his car for him he cant be doing with him but tells me it is not because he is gay or black (which he is) but it is because he is a ********, which is fair enough to me and progress.

 

I have a male gay mate who is terribly gossipy and bitchy. Worse than a woman. Does my head in. I also know a male artistic director who's very placid and intellectually sound. Wonderful person, actually.

 

Are you on crack?

Depends whether he thinks he is a d1ckhead because he is gay and black though

 

That's because you are wrong. I mean what logical reason is there for not accepting that Gay people should have the same rights as anyone else? What impact does it have on you?

 

Don't tell me we have been going back and forth and you don't even know what the facts of the situation are

1. The C of E are explcitly banned from performing Gay marriages
2. In other religions it is entirely optional
3. Civil services, you know, liek the one most stright couple get married in are to be legalised. Mainly because Gay peopel want to be able to commit in the same way and call themselves Married.
4. There are lots of Gay Chritians and clergymen. How does that fit into your ridiculous quotation of Bible passages?

 

But surely, they already have the same rights?
What rights don't they have?
Also, are you now saying that I am not supposed to have an opinion on anything that doesn't effect me directly?

Take a look in the mirror.

 

The statement was " It seems we've already got to the point somewhat,that if straight couples/people speak out and say i don't think gays should have equal rights in some things,then we're wrong,anti gay,living in the past..... "

And I said, yes, you're wrong if you think Gays should not have equal rights.

What's that got to do with right they already have?

Of course you can have an opinion. Just make sure it's an informed one, and not one based on prejudice

 

What part of 'marriage' do you not understand?

Definition:
-The formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife.

As for there being 'lots of Gay Chritians and clergymen', do you have a percentage or ratio?
More to the point, if there are lots of gay chritians and clergymen, surely that means that they either haven't read the book that they are supposed to be following or they have just chosen to ignore parts of it.

That's my issue. Which ever way you look at it, it just doesn't make sense.

 

Don't think it's fair to say his quotations of the bible are ridiculous, after all said and done they are from the bible, and marriage is essentially a christian union performed in a church (at least in it's original guise).

The fact that gay christians chose to ignore certain passages (except the back one of course ) is up to them, and how they reconcile religious beliefs alongside their sexual preferences is again a matter for the devil and them to discuss when they arrive at the gates of hell, according to their belief system.

Unless of course they repent and say a few dozen hail mary's, at which point all is forgiven and they will enter the kingdom of God.

 

The debate is abotu the definition being redefined to include same sex couple. What does the "old" definition have to do with anything? Are you suggesting that legal defintions are set in stone and never changed? They change all the time.
What;s that got to do with anything? The contentious issues with Gay Clergy are well documented.
I don;t think you can accuse peopel liek Gene Robinson or David Hope with "not reading the Bible" on account of them being Bishops. Pretty sure you have to know your stuff to get that far.

It's different intpretations of the Bible, and that happens left right and centre.

And since the Churches arent being asked to marry anyway, its a complete irrelevance.
What's your issue? Gay people aren't asking to get married in church, they just want to be married. Same way as lots of stright couple don't want to get married in church.
Why are you struggling with this?