The reason why the benefit bill has been increasing is because there has been a massive increase in the number of those claiming it!

If landlords change to private tenants, where do you think the benefit claimants will go?

I'm not suggesting there's an easy answer to all this.

 

What about the government’s responsibility to its electorate to protect them from the evil bankers...after all we know it's only the financial industry that was to blame for the recession the world finds itself languishing in.

if that odious twosome of Blair and Brown had given a $hit they would have addressed the issue before it became critical...they were too busy protecting the empires they had created though.

Remove blinkers and take a look at the whole picture not just the parts that suit you...you sound like a 16 year ‘politically aware’ old student, get over it.

 

I'm over it. The bankers were to blame, and have had no punishment that I have seen. Everyone else is paying for their mistakes and dishonesty.

You two, obviously, aren't over it.

 

It's the short memories and kind of rhetoric that you spout that I'm not over...boring and uninformed, hence the 16 year old student comment. I expected a little more of a balanced mature appraisal of the situation to be honest

 

Jeff,

Can you explain then why you feel so bitter about the bankers. Do you not think the government of the time should also shoulder some of the blame? Yes , the banks did wrong at times but you cannot pin all of the countries problems squarely onto them.

Chip

 

Er, yeah that's sort of the problem isn't it?

Er... into the state owned housing that was the reason you said the landlords would change to private tenants

But you're not making any sense either!

 

the past cant be undone - but should be learnt from.

its left the average working joe in a sh*t position, and tbh there is not really a simple solution.
the scroungers have to be dealt with, and the system which allows them to scrounge a living.
as great as the U.K is - there are areas of low employment and deprivation - massive communities were built to supply industries than now have simply gone/or been significantly reduced, yet population has grown - making things worse.

seriously in this country is there a job for every employable person? - i think it falls far short tbh. so there will always be unemployed people - and tbh it could happen to anyone. so we do need state support available. - and most of us pay for it.
ive previously thought claiments could tribute to society through community work - but is that taking jobs from other people?
there has a succession of the countries leaders that have allowed this to develop, then leaders have severely abused there positions for decades for personal wealth, at the expense of the working man. theres been corruption, lying, stealing of public money, un-accountability of public money, decisions swayed by the rich to help the rich, the list could go on and on and on and it still happens today.
then all the other policies that many disagree with, wars, defence, immigration, power, agriculture ect ect, some that consume vast amounts of public money. bakers used money with almost zero risk, and for years make humongous profits!! but thats hardly a isolated example.
theres a whole host of issues that need addressed, people moan about scroungers, or those that abuse the system - yet abuse happens at all levels.

the fact is society needs a system of hierarchy - all men are not born equally, with equal oppertunities - it wouldnt work if they were.

i cant see any viable solution anywhere on the horizon tbh

 

In what way do I have a "short memory"?

I've ignored the insults as being beneath you.

Oh, I'm bitter about the Lying Labour government of that time, believe me, but they have had their comeuppance, and it continues...they are unelectable at present and deservedly so.

But the bankers? The money men? The people who KNOWINGLY sold on, or took on toxic debt?

What punishment have any of them had? How many of them lost their jobs, their livelihood, their pensions? Hmmmm?

Well plenty of people I know have.....and they were just caught up in the dishonesty. I know one bloke who was about to retire, his pension disappeared! He will now have to work until he is 75, and has sold his nice house and lives in a tiny flat, in order to try and fund his life after work. What was HIS crime?
Apart from being naive enough to trust the people who ran the pension scheme?

And today we hear of yet another banking fiasco...so SOME of them have learnt nothing

I would be QUITE happy to let this lie, if ALL those responsible lost THEIR jobs and pensions, or went top prison or SOMETHING.
Instead, they trousered £millions. How much did Fred the Shred get?

 

This^^^ I agree with wholeheartedly.

 

Was that ASW?

 

The FSA have announced today another raft of miss selling by the banks

Forcing 1000's of business's into bankruptcy due flogging complicated credit default swaps to the local village post office

Just thought I would throw that in

Anyway back to dole scroungers

 

Ok I'm not sure of your definition of "benefit cuts", are you refering to cuts to the types of benefits or the cost of benefits? Sure I know the welfare bill has gone up, but like I said, the Government are trying to cut it by reducing the types of benefits that can be claimed

So you know for a fact that state own housing would be cheaper to run and maintain than the current system of housing benefit and private landlords? This is before the state takes into account the cost of building these houses in the first place.

You said this would be one easy thing, well I beg to differ.

 

Nah, he's just still bitter that Maggie allowed people to buy their council houses, a scheme originally proposed by the Labour Party.

 

Crazy talk. Projection in its purest form, possibly the purest ever i've seen on Scoobynet. This has rattled your cage for what, 5 years now? I bet you've had evenings down the pub preaching about it. And WE need to get over it??? Come on, be honest with yourself even if you need to try and deflect it in public.

 

So how many people does this encompass in your embittered world? Put a number on it for me. You feel so strongly about it, i guess you know the exact universe we're talking here. Inform me.

 

Jeff, Tel may have a point there.

 

Go on?

 

Go on what? I was referring to post 74 that he really does need to get over it and move on.

Chip

 

I'm confused! Sorry i was referring to Jeff's regular need to pull in the word bankers whenever world economic woes are being discussed and then telling me (i presumed) that i needed to get over it? If i've got completely the wrong end of the stick then moot point, move along nothing to see etc.

 

hmm im sure ive seen this level of political bickering somewhere before....

oh thats it! the Judeans peoples front, no i mean, The peoples front of judea, or was it, the Popular peoples front of judea?

 

The bickering is a simple by product of the fact that we are moving, inexorably, to a winner take all society

A simple battle of winners and losers, and the odds are (if you have not worked it out yet) stacked

The proportion of winners will form an ever smaller proportion of the population

The proportion of losers will form an ever increasing proportion of the population

and in the cold cold light of day, you have to ask yourself whether you (and your children) are winners or losers

 

no, its ALWAYS been about winners and loosers imo

ill guide my kids in the direction i think leads to best chances of prosperity - its maybe not the accepted route, but imo in current climate my guidence will give them the best chances, given they have been riased in a very average enviroment. i cant force them to take any advice - but they are my offspring and at present display some of my own characteristics - as such im mildy confident they will be able to assess any info i give them, add it to what they have experienced growing up, and then hopefully reach a decent decision?

 

Well in that case I class myself, my wife and both of my children as winners. We don't sit around wallowing in our own self pity, we all get up off our ***** and make something of our lives.

It's all too easy to just sit back and moan and blame everyone and everything for what is happening. Yes some people are in, and always will be in an unfortunate position but a lot can do something about their predicament but just either choose or are just too bone idle to do so.

Chip

 

Great Jeff, do what you believe is best for you and your children, “at the end of the day” that is all you can do

There is no right or wrong in these situations, hopefully the simple desire to better oneself is enough (my fear is that increasingly it will not be – as I said the odds are stacked against you)

great -- getting harder that's all

 

whoops (edit) -- totally read that wrong!!!!!! -- what a kin loser!!!!

 

your right,
thats all anyone can do, given average resources - ive no massive estate to pass onto kids, they have however seen working parents as the norm - luckily.
and for all generations preceding them. however my daughter does live in an enviroment where unemployment is rife, with a mother giving no guidence or morals - but she has other family that still instill values and a step mother who provides guidance in the best form possible.

dont get me wrong, looking around this country today does make me worry about my kids employment future - but thats when i feel my guidence will come in best.
i could be right or wrong - who knows, but its the best i can do.

for me bickering about politics, is just internet chat - we cant change or influence policies, we just have to make the best of opportunities that come our way.

 

and honestly that simple thing is the best you can do for them

I strongly believe that "work. effort and contribution" are the natural states of humankind

the "do fvck all society" is a modern construct -- built by the winners of a "winners and losers" narrative

 

Tel: how can I put a number on it? That's like asking me to name names.........which you know I can't do, even if Scoobynet would let me.

But how can YOU just keep defending these people as if they had no part in it?
Why are you getting so upset? DID they, or DID THEY NOT indulge in dishonest dodgy dealings which have, directly or indirectly, led to a financial collapse?

Yes or no? If no...justify your answer, and tell us all who DID?
Because if it wasn't the bankers, who the HELL was it?

 

It's the losers who do fvuck all and just live off benefits, rather than proving themselves in a successful career.

 

it is my assertion that even people who “work” will fall behind, into poverty (however you care to define it)

simply “working” is not going to be enough

the vast majority of benefits are paid to people in work


i pay a fortune in tax, to subsidise people in work – that’s my point

and seriously -- read my previous post on this a "successful career" WILL mean earning in todays money a 6 figure salary

i know most posters on SN earn this sort of money, but in the real world -- i am not so sure