Spoon

Use the cubicle then.

Lydia72

I don't think it's a state of mind as such but I do get annoyed with people who don't help themselves when they are ill. Someone I know has been "unwell" for about two decades with a variety of trivial (but of course they're not trivial to her) conditions. Headaches, stomach aches, back twinges etc. She's at the GP's every other week with something vague and yet won't do any exercise, doesn't eat healthily, doesn't get any fresh air etc.

I think some people expect doctors to be able to cure anything and everything with a pill and have forgotten how to take care of their own wellbeing.


But on the other hand I wouldn't go as far as to say I'm like Tom Cruise who thinks post-natal depression can be cured with vitamins...

john banks

The bigger problem is people that think they are ill or want to be ill who aren't IMHO.

My negative answer to the original question may be based on a misunderstanding of it? There are some people who don't believe in some illnesses, but I haven't come across anyone who doesn't believe in any illnesses unless you count the obviously deluded who believe they are not human or think they are immortal etc. Even then I don't think I've met anyone who denies the existence of all illness as it doesn't take long to find overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Maybe we can be more specific and name the illnesses in question and discuss whether the belief surrounds themselves or everyone else?

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I personally belive that with some poeple their illness be it physical or psychological is amplified or even invented by their own state of mind.

I know many people who seem to get bid-ridden with a paltry cold, and seemingly on constant medication for something or other. With one person I'm trying to convince her that most of the stuff she takes is just given to her to get her out of teh GP's door (she's always being given amoxicillin FFS)....I turned out to be right on oneof her ailments, recently she was diagnosed with asthma. KNowing what I went through as a child with asthma, I called bull*sit on that diagnosis. I told her, and the point was proven when the various inhalers didn't seem to work. Now GP says she has some sort of bone infection in her sternum, again I'm sceptical - Knowing her stress levels and personal issues I think its actually amplified by panic/anxiety attacks. I'm pretty certain if she was taken away from that stressful environment or was given coping strategies to deal with it, she'd be fine. But what do I know, eh?

I have colds all the time, but it never stops me. I just carry on as usual. Sure I'm not quite so on the ball, but only once have I been so ill of recent recolllection that I struggled to even stand up (felt like I was going to pass out - tunnel vision, dizzyness, couldn't breath etc) ....but it was only for one day and even then I went into work (probably a bad idea in hindsight, but hey ho), I lost my voice for two weeks afterwards too. And when I mean lost I mean for a whole week all I could do was whisper, I felt fine, no pain, no other symptoms, I just had no voice and a bit of a minor cough. So the actual illness was there, but I did all my best to prevent it stopping me.

I wasn't always like this, I'm pretty certain my health issues when I was younger was caused by stress and anxiety bringing on panic attacks. I'd feel physically sick, couldn't swallow, couldn't breath. I know belive it was all to do with bad times I was going through - parents divorce, my dad's alcholism, my education going down the pan, along with my dreams and my career. These days I'm ok, I just switch off to it. I know the signs when somthing is stressing me and somehow I just block it out, whereas before it'd manifest to point it made me ill. The negative aspect of that is that it does make me somewhat of a cold and emotionless individual at times.

Knowing this about myself, I know someone I'm pretty sure all his problems are in his head. It all started off with a dodgy knee after he hit it on a door in the hallway. Over five years later its still giving him greif and he can't walk without pain, can't work etc. He's had various docs and ops, nothing makes any differnce, if anything its amde it worse. Ten years later on and his docs have finally realised its all mental. Sure I belive this guy isn't well, but its just in his head; Its his thought trains that are doing it and making him ill. If he listened to people (which he doesn't) and actually got out more and did something with his life I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be the benefit leach that he currently is.

Which brings me onto my other gripe - our benfits system which supports him, all its doing is allowing him to continue in his current condition, and isn't doing anything to snap him out of it and make him become independant again.

TelBoy

Good stuff.

What about the more arbitrary conditions such as M.E. or S.A.D.

Anybody know anyone who claims to have those but thinks it's all a bit of an excuse for them?

Lydia72

Maybe it's worse if you have a mental rather than a physical condition because people cannot see the evidence. So if you have a broken leg you would not be told "I don't believe in broken legs" but if you have depression people are apt to think you can just pull yourself together. Or that children don't have autism/ aspergers/ ADHD they are just being naughty and need a slap, is that the kind of thing you mean Tel?

TelBoy

It is, Lydia, yes, i didn't mean it to the absolute literal sense as in broken legs etc, but illnesses. I can't really expand unfortunately, just looking for anecdotal snippets as we've been getting

Lydia72

Mental conditions, IMO, can be a reason for someone's behaviour but shouldn't be an excuse.
Someone I know comes across as a right tw*t, will only ever talk about himself, all the things he is going to do or what he has bought, delusions of grandeur and power, has absolutely no interest in anyone else's wellbeing unless there is something in it for him etc
I really think this guy has undiagnosed Narcissistic Personality Disorder, he fits the symptoms to a tee. So instead of me thinking "Shut up you ****" I try to be a bit sympathetic because if he has got that it's a recognised condition rather than him just being up his own bum.

hodgy0_2

tell me about it - I work for the Samaritans, I rang in sick the other day

b'stards talked me out of it


anyway - i'm from the "wind your neck in and get on with it" philosophical school of thought.

TelBoy

And if you're ill yourself? Days in bed and think you're dying, or martyr go to work regardless, or somewhere in between?

hodgy0_2

believe it or not, i have never taken a day off in 20 odd years of work, both employed and self employed

edit to say I did have night in hospital 2 years ago to remove a cyst

john banks

I recall one of my surgical tutors saying that they don't believe in ME, and go on to say that they think most sufferers would do well to see how people with the more objective diagnosis of MS cope, but nowadays they would be lambasted by powerful action groups and possibly reported to the GMC if they said it in public. I try to implement the advice of the CFS/ME working group in advising patients with CFS/ME. Sometimes this meets with considerable opposition as it recommends increasing activity and involving psychologists.

No days off for well over 10 years here. At some point I will get ill and die though.

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

I bet your co-workers loved you being in work spreading diseases!

Spoon

A cyst and you went to hospital! You could have removed that yourself while mowing the lawn.

hodgy0_2

It is a similar concept to “if you need something done, ask a busy person”

My wife looks after a house of 7 (with me) – she has to organize things with military precision and timing – it is quite staggering tbh

And yet she is always being asked to do the adhoc childcare for friends with less than half the amount of children we have, and she pretty much always has time to do it

Plus she has started to run her own business – amazing

hodgy0_2

i would have done, but it was on my lower back

I was itching to get my Dremel out

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

My wife is a bit like this. She doesn't DO sympathy, and is always likely to say "pull yourself together" but not in so many words....LOL

She also has THE highest pain threshold of anyone I have EVER met....for other people's pain,

Her own, on the other hand.........

Spoon

Just having 2 backs is impressive.

c_maguire

'Healthy in body, healthy in mind' the old saying goes. Very true and I would suggest it works in reverse too, to a lesser degree.
Which perhaps goes some way to explaining why Joe Average nowadays is mostly a useless streak of pis s.
Healthy people don't get sick as much and Joe is probably a fat slob.
People with a positive attitude don't get sick as much and poor old Joe is probably a bit depressed.
A large proportion of people appear to have the resilience of a cardboard flak jacket. Because they are allowed to get away with it.

And the suggestion earlier that absenteeism from work for illness is as prevalent in the private sector as the public is frankly ridiculous. Show me any verifiable statistics for this and I might try to believe you.
My other half is a teacher at a local school and the attendance of the other teachers is appalling (migraine, back-ache, depression, stress zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz). The only explanation as to how this school manages to remain open must be the fact that the taxpayer has chucked enough in such that they are overstaffed to begin with.
I expect this school is the exception rather than the rule. Yeah, righto.

JohnSmith

Haven't we as humans become 'more ill' due to the Internet and Google ?

jef

iTrader: (13)

do you think back ache, depression, stress arent genuine reasons for abscence?

c_maguire

If you've genuinely got any of those to a level that renders you unable to work, then yes. Otherwise no.
The emphasis here is on 'genuinely'.
I believe the majority of people taking time off work sick, whatever their claimed reason, are taking the mick.
I have been self-employed for the last three years. Nobody pays me while I am on holiday, while I am off sick, does some of my work while I am there because I'm lazy or gives me a pension. The last time I had a day off work was something like 8 years ago when I was on the books, and those 2 days I was bed-ridden were the only sick time I've had this century.
Am I hard as nails? No, I've just got a conscience and if someone is paying me I feel an obligation to do the work.
I won't be off sick and spotted down the shops, or at a gig of an evening then too poorly to be at work the next day (two recent examples I am aware of, both payed by the state unsurprisingly).

jef

iTrader: (13)

i agree, those with genuine conditions may render them unable to work, and many abuse the sytem.
but it does take away from the credibility of those genuinely affected.

your work scenario is similar to mine but not really applicable across the board, and to make conclusive decisions on.

Bubba po

Holy litotes, Batman!

toneh

iTrader: (1)

I'm not really understanding this thread tbh
I thought it was asking if some one is ill do they make themselves believe they are well

I have a mate who has been diagnosed with ms
Only his vision is affected so far , but he's been told he could stay like this for many years or it could hit him hard very soon

He fully understands what he has , to him it's nothing , he trains hard , eats well , will not go for check ups or medication , I said do you think that's the right thing to do mate , his reply was , if I think I'm ill I will be , , if he's happy and that's what he thinks that's up to him
He certainly not in denial , just determined and very strong willed
But what effect his attitude will have on his health I don't know

davegtt

I kind of agree with the original question. If I woke up feeling a little under the weather and stayed in bed Id feel ill all day, if I got up feeling a little sorry for myself I will feel worse progressively throughout the day. Get up and just drive through it and generally by 11am/noon there isnt a thing wrong with you at all.

c_maguire

I'd put money on the fact he does a lot better than someone in the same position who mopes about it.

toneh

iTrader: (1)

Quite possible mate , my only worry is that a strong self belief may lead to not seeking medical help which may also help

c_maguire

The best approach would be pragmatic - get occasional checkups, be aware of what may happen and consider medication when the time comes if it has a positive impact (both physical and mental implications must be considered) on lifestyle.
You are right in that a strong self-belief which excludes the consideration of all options is worrying as it is possibly akin to being in denial.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I do have a good freind who did suffer from ME at the time when it was pretty much unheard of. I've known him since we were both four years old. He went down with ME midway during secondary school and never really recovered until his late teens after college.

He's OK now, but during the worst periods he'd just collapse from sheer exhaustion. And when I mean collapse I mean unconscience. Despite this he was always trying to soldier on, to me it was clear that the mind was willing, but for whatever reason his body wasn't allowing it. Yet before this he was the most athletic of people - one of the top players in the youth football leagues and also a damn good tennis player. He's one of those people who was annoyingly good at anything sports related. Always ate well (parents are health freaks) and a fairly clever person to boot.

To go from that to someone labelled as "lazy" by the lesser informed just isn't right, as he was always a "can do" type of guy. Still is, and even after coping with this he managed to do more than the average workshy person in half the time and despite missing most of school and college, he still managed to get better qualifications than me (and I had a near 100% attendance record, and him probably had 10%).

So I honestly think ME is very a real condition, for him at least. However I do belive that now ME is more widely publicised I think it is likely that it is misdiagnosed for others suffering from more treatable or circumstance related conditions (for example, stress related depression).