MY00 OS remap, in the pipeline?
01 December 2012, 11:32 AM
#31
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Looks like you're gonna be on too a winner duncan when the classic o/s is released
03 December 2012, 04:02 PM
#32
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Also what's up with these mappers charging vat? Why don't they take a page outa Starbucks and amazon?
03 December 2012, 04:27 PM
#33
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You can fit the fuel pump any time. It's not a massive task (although I'm crap with a soldering iron so Alcazar helped me there ).
Onto the map, an already ECUteked ECU would be around £140-150 delivered. Then the map would be around £300. The inclusion of VAT is where the difference can come in as it's a 20% difference as you know. That's where it is worth looking at the overall cost and is it cheaper.
As an example, my ECUteked ECU was £140, plus an inclusive price of £280 for a fresh map on said ECU with the license paid for. So a fully inclusive price of £420. Then you have the price of £550+ VAT making it £660 which is around 50% more. BUT then you may find a mapper who charges £500 or so all inclusive.
That's not a bashing on what mappers charge as obviously people are happy to pay mappers this money and will have preference (before the thread goes THAT way). My Impreza is 13 years old, needs a clutch soon and has the typical arch problems creeping in so I totally get you with regards cost in comparison to car value. Just like I wouldn't buy a cheap car, spend £1,000's on it to sell it. I'd keep it for the investment.
As the open source develops, I may take interest in future cars but there's not much point in my current Impreza. And I was/are very happy with my mapper of choice.
Andy
).Onto the map, an already ECUteked ECU would be around £140-150 delivered. Then the map would be around £300. The inclusion of VAT is where the difference can come in as it's a 20% difference as you know. That's where it is worth looking at the overall cost and is it cheaper.
As an example, my ECUteked ECU was £140, plus an inclusive price of £280 for a fresh map on said ECU with the license paid for. So a fully inclusive price of £420. Then you have the price of £550+ VAT making it £660 which is around 50% more. BUT then you may find a mapper who charges £500 or so all inclusive.
That's not a bashing on what mappers charge as obviously people are happy to pay mappers this money and will have preference (before the thread goes THAT way). My Impreza is 13 years old, needs a clutch soon and has the typical arch problems creeping in so I totally get you with regards cost in comparison to car value. Just like I wouldn't buy a cheap car, spend £1,000's on it to sell it. I'd keep it for the investment.
As the open source develops, I may take interest in future cars but there's not much point in my current Impreza. And I was/are very happy with my mapper of choice.
Andy
I've spotted an ecu which has been mapped so I'm gonna buy it and then get It remapped to my spec.That's gonna work out cheaper I reckon.Thing is I bought my car last year and even before that prices for scoobs,evos and skylines were dropping like tarts knickers and this year it's worse.personally I love the classic but then again I love newer scoobs and other cars like evos and r33 r34s so I've decided against massive tuning like £3000 upwards.
Also I was told you Shouldn't fit pump without remap as my car is already running a decat exhaust and I can't afford to risk damage.I'm too ***** to do the pump myself
03 December 2012, 07:45 PM
#34
Just to quell this going down the OS route. It wont be OS - it is a complete rewrite of the std ecu licenced by esl that gives twin maps, mafless and lots of other goodies as well as all the factory protection, idling and other bits that Subaru spent a lot of time developing. I don't expect it to be the same price as Alcatek but it will be a decent price for a very decent product. Esl will release pricing in due course i am sure.
03 December 2012, 08:48 PM
#35
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Very informative post,thanks Andy
I've spotted an ecu which has been mapped so I'm gonna buy it and then get It remapped to my spec.That's gonna work out cheaper I reckon.Thing is I bought my car last year and even before that prices for scoobs,evos and skylines were dropping like tarts knickers and this year it's worse.personally I love the classic but then again I love newer scoobs and other cars like evos and r33 r34s so I've decided against massive tuning like £3000 upwards.
Also I was told you Shouldn't fit pump without remap as my car is already running a decat exhaust and I can't afford to risk damage.I'm too ***** to do the pump myself
I've spotted an ecu which has been mapped so I'm gonna buy it and then get It remapped to my spec.That's gonna work out cheaper I reckon.Thing is I bought my car last year and even before that prices for scoobs,evos and skylines were dropping like tarts knickers and this year it's worse.personally I love the classic but then again I love newer scoobs and other cars like evos and r33 r34s so I've decided against massive tuning like £3000 upwards.
Also I was told you Shouldn't fit pump without remap as my car is already running a decat exhaust and I can't afford to risk damage.I'm too ***** to do the pump myself
I spoke to Bob Rawle regards fitting my fuel pump. Did it approx. 2 weeks prior to driving to Swindon for the map with no issues at all
04 December 2012, 01:32 PM
#37
Just to quell this going down the OS route. It wont be OS - it is a complete rewrite of the std ecu licenced by esl that gives twin maps, mafless and lots of other goodies as well as all the factory protection, idling and other bits that Subaru spent a lot of time developing. I don't expect it to be the same price as Alcatek but it will be a decent price for a very decent product. Esl will release pricing in due course i am sure.
04 December 2012, 04:41 PM
#38
Ecu Specialist
It will be available through any of the ESL tuners. Hopefully it will be more competitive than the EcuTek based solution, that seems to vary in cost across the tuning community. An EcuTek licence is £150 plus vat. So it will be interesting to see the pricing when its circulated. I charge £450 plus vat for a remap if the car is "virgin" with a discount to certain limited edition clubs plus the Legacy boys.
And, yes, if we are VAT registered that has to be charged. I could just change my name to Google through ... lol
As Duncan says, though, its going to be an enhanced product compared to whats currently available from EcuTek. Should be good.
cheers
bob
And, yes, if we are VAT registered that has to be charged. I could just change my name to Google through ... lol
As Duncan says, though, its going to be an enhanced product compared to whats currently available from EcuTek. Should be good.
cheers
bob
04 December 2012, 08:31 PM
#39
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The way I thought about it was my car had a decat already and for the price of the remap, air filter and Walbro fuel pump I gained over 65 bhp and lots of torque for £500ish all in. That's pretty good value when you think what the remap's for
I spoke to Bob Rawle regards fitting my fuel pump. Did it approx. 2 weeks prior to driving to Swindon for the map with no issues at all
I spoke to Bob Rawle regards fitting my fuel pump. Did it approx. 2 weeks prior to driving to Swindon for the map with no issues at all
I agree about the power to cost ratio.Also I think the smoother drivability is very important for me. Il get the pump done as I want Bob to do my mapping aswell.
26 January 2013, 06:59 PM
#41
Ecu Specialist
Mmmm, well as has been said before ESL are not doing this for love so there will be a cost and why should it be any cheaper than EcuTek given its offering more for the money? have to wait and see.
Live mapping will be great, but accuracy is not dependant on it, any tuner should map the car "accurately" whatever system he is using and how ever long it takes. This system will not be any more "accurate" than any other given the rom file is the rom file.
So far the only question I have is what happens if you brick your laptop before you flashed all your changes into the ecu, or even what happens if it bricks while that process is gong on. Knowing ESL there will be some fail safes in place, the Jecs is notorious for interference type influences using the EcuTek solution and I know that will have to be addressed given what has been publicised.
Good to see the update, looking forward to its availability.
cheers
bob
Live mapping will be great, but accuracy is not dependant on it, any tuner should map the car "accurately" whatever system he is using and how ever long it takes. This system will not be any more "accurate" than any other given the rom file is the rom file.
So far the only question I have is what happens if you brick your laptop before you flashed all your changes into the ecu, or even what happens if it bricks while that process is gong on. Knowing ESL there will be some fail safes in place, the Jecs is notorious for interference type influences using the EcuTek solution and I know that will have to be addressed given what has been publicised.
Good to see the update, looking forward to its availability.
cheers
bob
26 January 2013, 11:37 PM
#43
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[QUOTE=Bob Rawle;10962009]Live mapping will be great, but accuracy is not dependant on it, any tuner should map the car "accurately" whatever system he is using and how ever long it takes. This system will not be any more "accurate" than any other given the rom file is the rom file.
/QUOTE]
IMHO, given the inherently iterative nature of mapping and the fact that reflashing on ecutek requires both the entire address space to be rewritten each time and a cumulative risk of total ECU failure with each reflash, I would suggest the quality of the map and efficiency with which it is derived is likely to be better if you can instantaneously adjust per-cell, engine running, with no risk of bricking.
/QUOTE]
IMHO, given the inherently iterative nature of mapping and the fact that reflashing on ecutek requires both the entire address space to be rewritten each time and a cumulative risk of total ECU failure with each reflash, I would suggest the quality of the map and efficiency with which it is derived is likely to be better if you can instantaneously adjust per-cell, engine running, with no risk of bricking.
27 January 2013, 05:06 PM
#44
Ecu Specialist
Hi Andy, indeed but thats not "accuracy" just robustness which is great. The rest is down to the developed technique used when mapping.
Hurry up and release !!
cheers
bob
Hurry up and release !!
cheers
bob
08 April 2013, 12:50 PM
#50
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Two cars running beta firmware now without issue, our Sti5 running very nicely mafless. Productionising the cable is proving more of a job than we had originally anticipated, there is more to it than 92-98.
26 June 2013, 03:17 PM
#53
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Progress has been slow, I apologise for this and realise it is frustrating. We are improving the fueling algorithm at the moment and writing the debrick routines. The majority of the work has been done but life has got in the way a bit of late.
10 April 2014, 11:44 AM
#59
This thread has taken a somewhat different direction from the original question though. I guess it's unrealistic to want a free tool like open source on the new age cars but it's not exactly what I had in mind when starting the thread.
