MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

Yep, same here Jura.

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

Mines powder coated.

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

Finished my front mount water sprayer today with 6 jets aiming directly onto the core. Should keep it cool enough even with a good covering I paint :-)

Ciaran

iTrader: (16)

Defo paint it. The last Impreza I bought had not had it painted and i was able to rub the fins off with my hands due to the corrosion

harvey

iTrader: (48)

I have two cars of my own fitted with Hybrid GT and one car fitted with APS. The APS is painted black. This is probably one reason why the APS consistantly runs 6-12 deg.C. over ambient when the Hybrid typically runs up to 6 C. over ambient in the same conditions.
Indeed, during mapping, Bob Rawle made the comment that he noticed the ACTs on the APS equipped car were higher than the two Hybrid equipped cars.

It matters not to me if you guys want to paint FMIC cores and if you think it does not reduce thermal performance then I can only conclude you have not invested in an accurate ACT guages or better still temperature logging equipment with properly devised testing procedure, route, regime and taking in to account ambient temperatures. If you want the best thermal performance you will not paint the core and you may make other slight modifications to ensure the best possible thermal results over all.

The reason I do not insulate the hot pipe from the turbo compressor to the intercooler core is that the temperature drops along the length of the hot pipe from the turbo discharge and this is what you want as it gives the core the lowest possible starting point to do its job. I understand that compressor discharge temperatures can be as much as 200 deg.C. I have recently measured 160 deg.C on a WOT run on the rolling road. In cruise the temperature is much lower but you are not looking for maximum performance in cruise. The surrounding temperature of the hot pipe in the under bonnet area is not likely to be more than 70 deg.C in the vicinity of the turbo charger if the exhaust side of the turbo is heat wrapped but generally the compressed air is losing temperature all the way from the compressor, through the inner wing to the core. The heat given off by the hot pipe is not a major contributor to under bonnet temperature and there are more important heat management issues in need of attention.
If you look at the design of any intercooler core you will see the tubes are sandwiched between wafer thin aluminium matrix. This has to be thin so that it absorbs and disipates heat quickly and the surface area of the matrix is critical. If you want to add an insulator to the matrix ie. paint or worse still, powder coat, you will reduce the thermal performance.
Now in the cruise at a steady 70 mph perhaps your intercooler is performing very little function as you will be running in vacuum but if you wish to test an intercooler properly you need to hold the engine on a set boost for a set period of time and look at the temperature then. This is very difficult to do on the open road because there are not many places you can run with a steady 1.5 bar or whatever for 15 seconds. Safer to use the rolling road.
If I have missed any of the questions just let me know.

allsop83

iTrader: (9)

Harvey, what is your opinion on this type of paint:

http://www.frost.co.uk/automotive-pa...osol-340g.html

??? Blurb says it is a "heat resistant paint specially formulated for your radiator, won't peel, interfere with the heat transfer or block airflow" ???

Thanks,
Chris

macmac

iTrader: (1)

after reading the above i will be leaving well enough alone , yes i agree they look better in black but why reduce the performance of a performance mod ?

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Hi Chris : Advertising blurb. At least it doesn't add 15 bhp on gear changes I have read the blurb but that is what I think it is. How can you add a layer that does not act as a heat barrier to some extent. Some people will say anything to sell their products. No doubt it is a good product if you want a black radiator or other warm surface but ask them to substantiate the claim that it does not interfere with heat transfer. To whatever extent it has to be a heat barrier.

I have some experience of painting intercoolers. The surface is aluminium and requires an etch primer followed by a top coat. There will be specialist paints around that will be single coat ie. no primer but my experience was that whether single coated black or etch primed and blacked, after a Winter exposed to road grit and potash/salt, the finish needed touching up because of physical abrasion simply from the road debris. That was the start of a need to touch up the intercooler core on a regular basis.
Now it would be possible to get a better more durable coating on the surface but that would simply improve the insulation which is exactly the opposite of the objective.
I also investigated the possibility of anodizing and dying black but the core does not lend itself to being an attractive proposition to anodize which is a great pity because then you could have black, gold, blue, red or any other colour you wanted.

banzai2009

I've never seen a zunsport grill for classic so that means the tacky ****e from halfords to use instead I'd rather paint than use that mesh.

Companies like greddy forge etc paint there logos on the front mines a forge I've painted mine black just for the stealth look can't comment on efficiency yet but I wouldn't imagine Itl make too much difference there's a few on 22b running 600+++ with painted coolers

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

Has there been any power tests done with painted and non painted coolers.
If the thin layer of paint does make any difference it would be so small you'd not need worry.

Jura has said he's tested his cooler before and after paint and found no difference whatsoever.
I personally prefer the look of a painted cooler so if it's costing me 1 bhp then so be it.

stevep360

iTrader: (20)

I went through all this years ago, buy a hyperflow or aps if you want the back look, many cars running up to 700bho and above with those intercoolers and they are powder coated.
Or get an rs 500 core and make the pipework

SCOOBYOLS46

if your after looks then paint it if your after performance leave it how it is ! personally you should leave it how it is bud

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

Paint it. I've painted mine several times over the years (same cooler different cars) The last of which was 600bhp and ACT temps were absolutely fine.

Alot of of people have theories but they are seldom tested

banzai2009

Why does everyone bang in about these cossy rs500 coolers? Is there somthing particular about them that's worth getting as me mate has one heap and I'm considering it if there's a particular gain with them

banzai2009

Why does everyone bang in about these cossy rs500 coolers? Is there somthing particular about them that's worth getting as me mate has one cheap and I'm considering it if there's a particular gain with them

stevep360

iTrader: (20)

: thumb:

harvey

iTrader: (48)

My knowledge is not based on theory, it is based on actual measurement. If some of you think that adding a layer of paint makes no difference that is fine. It will make no difference in the cruise or when the engine is not developing much power because the intercooler is serving little purpose but on power the situation changes. For the test to be meaningful you need to record or log ACTs on power in set circumstances. If you have the facility to record ACTs and see no difference in temperature, on load, then all the readings I have taken over several years must be wrong You can also relate the temperature difference to the power difference. 10 deg.C. is 3% power approximately.
The other thing you should do if you want to measure the performance on an intercooler is check the pressure drop across the core or across the system if that is easier.

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

What temps are we talking here Harvey ?

A thin layer of paint will not cause a 10 degree increase surely...

harvey

iTrader: (48)

The difference in ACT between a painted and unpainted core at WOT on the rolling road can be in excess of 10 degrees in my experience. As soon as air charge cooling becomes marginal the painted core cannot cope.

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

I find it hard to believe that a thin layer of paint on the front part of a cooler will develop an increase of over 10 degrees C.
The main surface area of the fins are in the middle, the part you paint is only a tiny portion of the entire surface area.

jayallen

iTrader: (31)

Surely the high end intercooler companys would of carried out their own testing on their painted/coated cores and if it was found that it made a big difference in performance they wouldnt do it..

Ive painted my last 2 cores in satin black.

jayallen

iTrader: (31)

Just to add.....What colour are ALL Classic WRX top mounts..?

ronjeramy

iTrader: (1)

what colour are the STI's though

jayallen

iTrader: (31)

Sti's are alloy.

jura11

iTrader: (7)

I must agree with Matty,we are running painted intercooler for few months without the one problem,high ACT can be down to weather as we are been on the Santa pod when outside has been 35C and our ACT has been at 40-45C(on WOT has dropped down to the 34C)


Jura

scatty

iTrader: (1)

i think it looks fine as it is. saying that it looks good black too.

i sprayed mine when i had the blob and put some mesh in front. only had slight chipping a year on.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

There is little or no difference when the car is on light work and the intercooler has capacity in hand but at high boost it is quite noticable.
The fins disipate heat and I have not worked out how to paint an intercooler to look good without painting into the fins so it all looks black. How can you paint the edge only?
Somebody referred to powder coating. That is even worse as it is a thicker coating applied electrostatically so it results in TOTAL coverage.

You wish.
APS want to sell intercoolers. They want to cater for both parts of the market. They will know just as I do that a coating of paint degrades the ultimate performance but it does look nice.
You said "high end" Did you mean high price?
An APS FMIC at more than twice the price will not outperform a Hybrid GT2. From the experience and testing I have done I know what works and what does not in some areas, intercooler cores being one.
To carry on the "high end" anology a bit further, advertisers claim all sorts of advantages from their dump valves. AFAIK the most expensive is the HKS SSQ. Fine if you want to make a noise but I am yet to see an improvement in performance from one of these. Show me factual evidence.
"High end" air filters. I am sure they are well designed and a lot of care has gone into design, specification and manufacture. Adds 15 bhp. Bollocks, indeed lies. A ploy to sell product.

If you want to buy a performance enhancing product and then degrade its performance that is fine. Your choice. Nothing to do with me but I have told you what I believe to be the case based on what I have done.
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