Williams Motorsport meets EngineMapper the great modification test mule
11 August 2011, 10:23 AM
#93
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: holywell
Posts: 453
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quick update- Graham has been busy fitting some coilovers and a new set of wheels and tyres, the car now looks a bit more aggresive and drives much better. We have had a project meeting this week, well actually it was more a case of Graham having his own small riot here and looting my workshop! LOL. Next steps (very soon) will be to change the exhaust components, it's obvious that the standard setup is restrictive so Lets see what happens as we start upgrading things. Ive been busy fabricating an uppipe with a venturi to feed directly into the turbo, we hope this will increase exhaust flow/velocity and improve spool?........to be continued.
12 August 2011, 01:19 AM
#94
Engine Specialist
Thread Starter
Suffice it to say, it is late and I'm tired, however I have just finished fitting some tubular headers and up-pipe, along with decat 2.5" turbo back exhaust which I fitted and tweaked on the dyno earlier on today. I will give the necessaries tomorrow after tweaking for the headers and up-pipe on the dyno!
More to come, very very soon.....keep tuned....
More to come, very very soon.....keep tuned....
12 August 2011, 04:50 PM
#96
Scooby Newbie
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey folks
Just wanted to thank Graham immensely for the work he has carried out on my car this morning and yesterday.
I have had issues with the car since we bought it, the last owner had fitted a poor induction kit and a cat back exhaust but not remapped the ecu.
First run on the dyno showed a miserable 170bhp, and after some intense fault finding and testing we proved the filter was the culprit.
A standard air box and Pro R filter later got the car back up to proper power levels, couple of hours of Grahams magic later rolled off the dyno with an excellent 282bhp!
Mods are a 3" cat back, and Pro R filter, 1.2bar boost
I cannot recommend or thank Graham enough, his service was excellent, took his time and didn't stop until he was happy with the car.
Also the guys at Silverstone Autosport were very helpful.
Will definitely be taking my next car to him.
Just wanted to thank Graham immensely for the work he has carried out on my car this morning and yesterday.
I have had issues with the car since we bought it, the last owner had fitted a poor induction kit and a cat back exhaust but not remapped the ecu.
First run on the dyno showed a miserable 170bhp, and after some intense fault finding and testing we proved the filter was the culprit.
A standard air box and Pro R filter later got the car back up to proper power levels, couple of hours of Grahams magic later rolled off the dyno with an excellent 282bhp!
Mods are a 3" cat back, and Pro R filter, 1.2bar boost
I cannot recommend or thank Graham enough, his service was excellent, took his time and didn't stop until he was happy with the car.
Also the guys at Silverstone Autosport were very helpful.
Will definitely be taking my next car to him.
12 August 2011, 06:46 PM
#99
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: holywell
Posts: 453
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well it's been a very interesting week, Graham has put alot of hrs into the car and as well as looking and driving much better, weve had some interesting dyno results. I won't try and give a detailed summary but we broke the 300bhp mark. The results of the exhaust upgrades have been very interesting. Graham returned today to continue His looting exploits, today he ran off in his burberry hoody, clenching the modded up pipe I mentioned earlier and some methanol................keep watching for the results.
13 August 2011, 12:25 AM
#101
Engine Specialist
Thread Starter
Ok, so it looked like I was going to have a fairly relaxed week this week. But instead decided I'd dedicate some of my free time to moving on with the Test Mule project and really answering some of the questions that mainly I'd been pondering about.
My first hurdle was to make it drive better. Previously it had been fitted with 19" alloys and low profile tyres, which weren't in the best of balance as well as missing a spigot ring, so made your teeth feel like they would fall out over 50mph. It also suffered from too much rebound and not enough bump, due to the knackered WRX shocks and springs mated to these very unforgiving wheels and tyres.
Andy sorted some coilovers and I sorted some wheels and tyres, courtesy of Teg Sport and their need to offload some 17" wheels into my Mondeo, well 16 wheels to be exact. I only needed 4 for the test car!!! Thanks Stu!
This transformed the ride, handling and the ability to do more than 50mph! You don't realise how out of balance your wheels are until you do 5th gear flat out on the dyno.
So it ended up looking like this all fitted:
So next up was the nitty gritty.
Well as you will recap, we'd managed to achieve 294bhp with the turbo fitted. Driving this around for a few miles and it soon became apparent that it was quite a laggy drive, more a-kin to a race car. However the standard exhaust gave a very sleeper style drive, whilst the lag gave you a slap in the face to remind you it was still the best part of 300bhp.
So the next step I decided was a turbo back decat exhaust. It happened to be a classic system I had, so needed a little modifying to make it fit, but went on rather well after. The downpipe is a twin dump style mouth for the wastegate and turbo gases, 3", reducing to 2.5" for the centre then back to 3" for the Nur Spec back box. Not ideal, but consider it a 2.5" system, so we have the ability to modify it to 3" very easily for that 2.5/3" test.
Results were surprising:
Spool was much improved, now 500-700rpm sooner, although the bhp gain was very little. I attributed this to the up-pipe cat still being present in the system, but we'd achieved that all important 300bhp! You'll notice the dip in power and torque just under 5000rpm, this I tried to map out to no avail, but you'll see why in a minute.
At this point it's worth recapping on spec so far:
Forged bottom end
Steel gaskets
Up-rated organic clutch
VF35
My own 750cc injectors
Cosworth panel filter
PFR7B plugs
2.5" turbo back exhaust system
Running on fresh V-power
It's at this point that I noticed the fueling start to waver at the top end and a little missing occur. The fuel pump had reached it's maximum. A Walbro was sourced and fitted for the next stage.....
My first hurdle was to make it drive better. Previously it had been fitted with 19" alloys and low profile tyres, which weren't in the best of balance as well as missing a spigot ring, so made your teeth feel like they would fall out over 50mph. It also suffered from too much rebound and not enough bump, due to the knackered WRX shocks and springs mated to these very unforgiving wheels and tyres.
Andy sorted some coilovers and I sorted some wheels and tyres, courtesy of Teg Sport and their need to offload some 17" wheels into my Mondeo, well 16 wheels to be exact. I only needed 4 for the test car!!! Thanks Stu!
This transformed the ride, handling and the ability to do more than 50mph! You don't realise how out of balance your wheels are until you do 5th gear flat out on the dyno.
So it ended up looking like this all fitted:
So next up was the nitty gritty.
Well as you will recap, we'd managed to achieve 294bhp with the turbo fitted. Driving this around for a few miles and it soon became apparent that it was quite a laggy drive, more a-kin to a race car. However the standard exhaust gave a very sleeper style drive, whilst the lag gave you a slap in the face to remind you it was still the best part of 300bhp.
So the next step I decided was a turbo back decat exhaust. It happened to be a classic system I had, so needed a little modifying to make it fit, but went on rather well after. The downpipe is a twin dump style mouth for the wastegate and turbo gases, 3", reducing to 2.5" for the centre then back to 3" for the Nur Spec back box. Not ideal, but consider it a 2.5" system, so we have the ability to modify it to 3" very easily for that 2.5/3" test.
Results were surprising:
Spool was much improved, now 500-700rpm sooner, although the bhp gain was very little. I attributed this to the up-pipe cat still being present in the system, but we'd achieved that all important 300bhp! You'll notice the dip in power and torque just under 5000rpm, this I tried to map out to no avail, but you'll see why in a minute.
At this point it's worth recapping on spec so far:
Forged bottom end
Steel gaskets
Up-rated organic clutch
VF35
My own 750cc injectors
Cosworth panel filter
PFR7B plugs
2.5" turbo back exhaust system
Running on fresh V-power
It's at this point that I noticed the fueling start to waver at the top end and a little missing occur. The fuel pump had reached it's maximum. A Walbro was sourced and fitted for the next stage.....
13 August 2011, 01:29 AM
#102
Engine Specialist
Thread Starter
The next step was logical, Williams Motorsport headers and up-pipe, (looted from a local workshop 
), and a map tweak to suite. The up-pipe and headers had the next biggest single gain aside from the initial map and turbo change. It meant I could run the fueling leaner to extract more power and run a little more ignition too. Ultimately equating into a much more efficient burn. Very evident in the results. Just the header and up-pipe changed netted an overall 310bhp peak without mapping, 320bhp after mapping. Mean sound to them too, changed the exhaust note from a muffled burble into a mean growl, almost Porsche-esk.
It was at this point that I decided it was time to do a back to back ECU test. I happened to have a Simtek available for use, so fitted that and an air temp sensor in the intercooler to run mafless. A little bit of mapping later and I ended up with this:
The difference in peak power is down to a degree of timing being left out on the Simtek. I was able to measure the noise of the engine and it's proximity to det with the Simtek's mapping knock dashboard so acutely that this was the point at which the map was on the threshold of det. On the original ecu I had to switch off the knock control above 4500rpm, as the ECU would hear what it thought was det and remove an inordinate amount of timing with no noise audible through my det cans.
The biggest gain was torque low down and top end longevity on the Simtek visibly to see on the graph. The resolution of a MAF ECU, (original), is much more course further up the load scale, so the accuracy of fueling and ignition reduces explaining that. For those purists out there to be sure I made this a fair test, I'd been mapping the standard ecu on this car for many runs and previous mods and spent the best part of 2 hours trying to squeeze what I could from it before fitting the Simtek. The more observant of you will notice the time between the last standard ECU run and the Simtek run was just over an hour. That includes fitting the Simtek and mucking around and then mapping from scratch. No prior setup work done.
I'll be completely honest, the Simtek for one of these cars is a £1260 upgrade,(fitted and mapped), and I was very skeptical that it would have that amount of value in the improvements that could be made over the standard ECU. However it was very clear when I fitted the large injectors to the original ECU that it was struggling to cope with their non linear application of fuel, so starting was not as good and low speed driving and acceleration was not as good as it should be. No amount of tweaking the ECU sorted this enough for me to be 100% happy, but it is more than acceptable. Standard ECUs always seem to have a lazy throttle response about them no matter how hard you try to improve upon it. With the Simtek fitted and barely mapped it was evident it had improved throttle response a low end drive-ability 10 fold, especially over the standard setup, standard map which seemed to have flat spots 'built in'. Incredible results so far I thought, well wait until the drive home.
The other ability I had with the Simtek, was to monitor intake temperatures on the runs as I went. To my surprise and absolute shock I was reaching 86c peak boost and rpm, normally I'd see 40-50c on a FMIC setup on this dyno peak!! However it was taking it run after run. Imagine what power it'd be with FMIC charge temps?!
The next and final test on the dyno for the day was a meth mix test. 20% meth, 80% fresh V-power. So we drained the tank and filled it with the meth mix:
I was hoping for a little more from the Meth, but what can I expect to achieve at 86c intake temp!! To be fair the meth burns cooler and cleaner, so in theory should stabilise the intake temperature. However after a discussion with the Andy it was obvious the crucial next modification was to deal with the intake temperature issue and aspire to extract the most we can out of this setup before moving on.
So to the driving home bit and the road test. It sounded mean, very mean, probably a little too loud as a daily driver, but definitely brought a smile to my face. Jumped on the *** back towards Wrexham and very quickly noticed how much more responsive the car was, how much smoother and also how much more spool was available from the turbo. The Simtek has made me wonder whether 10kg has fallen off my fly-wheel or if I'd missed a big button in the original ECU entitled 'click here for normal throttle response'. If anyone is skeptical themselves, then pop down and you can drive it back to back on each ECU!! The original ECU vs Simtek test was going to be only a trial week on the Simtek, but now i've felt what it can drive like then I'm going to have to buy one for this car, otherwise we'll step backwards.
So overall review of the mods so far:
Turbo back exhaust needs complementing with decat up-pipe on WRX models at least, I believe the headers contributed considerably to efficiency of gas exhausting.
TMIC is crap, although we are going to use some unorthodox methods to try and retain this, just for fun!
Simtek = awesome, drive ability improved 200%, start-up and idle is 100% better than original ECU full stop. Definitely excels as an ECU and worth the money, although if you'd asked me before I might not have been so convinced that it would make such a difference!
Hope you enjoyed that part of the update, stay tuned for more....
Graham
), and a map tweak to suite. The up-pipe and headers had the next biggest single gain aside from the initial map and turbo change. It meant I could run the fueling leaner to extract more power and run a little more ignition too. Ultimately equating into a much more efficient burn. Very evident in the results. Just the header and up-pipe changed netted an overall 310bhp peak without mapping, 320bhp after mapping. Mean sound to them too, changed the exhaust note from a muffled burble into a mean growl, almost Porsche-esk.It was at this point that I decided it was time to do a back to back ECU test. I happened to have a Simtek available for use, so fitted that and an air temp sensor in the intercooler to run mafless. A little bit of mapping later and I ended up with this:
The difference in peak power is down to a degree of timing being left out on the Simtek. I was able to measure the noise of the engine and it's proximity to det with the Simtek's mapping knock dashboard so acutely that this was the point at which the map was on the threshold of det. On the original ecu I had to switch off the knock control above 4500rpm, as the ECU would hear what it thought was det and remove an inordinate amount of timing with no noise audible through my det cans.
The biggest gain was torque low down and top end longevity on the Simtek visibly to see on the graph. The resolution of a MAF ECU, (original), is much more course further up the load scale, so the accuracy of fueling and ignition reduces explaining that. For those purists out there to be sure I made this a fair test, I'd been mapping the standard ecu on this car for many runs and previous mods and spent the best part of 2 hours trying to squeeze what I could from it before fitting the Simtek. The more observant of you will notice the time between the last standard ECU run and the Simtek run was just over an hour. That includes fitting the Simtek and mucking around and then mapping from scratch. No prior setup work done.
I'll be completely honest, the Simtek for one of these cars is a £1260 upgrade,(fitted and mapped), and I was very skeptical that it would have that amount of value in the improvements that could be made over the standard ECU. However it was very clear when I fitted the large injectors to the original ECU that it was struggling to cope with their non linear application of fuel, so starting was not as good and low speed driving and acceleration was not as good as it should be. No amount of tweaking the ECU sorted this enough for me to be 100% happy, but it is more than acceptable. Standard ECUs always seem to have a lazy throttle response about them no matter how hard you try to improve upon it. With the Simtek fitted and barely mapped it was evident it had improved throttle response a low end drive-ability 10 fold, especially over the standard setup, standard map which seemed to have flat spots 'built in'. Incredible results so far I thought, well wait until the drive home.
The other ability I had with the Simtek, was to monitor intake temperatures on the runs as I went. To my surprise and absolute shock I was reaching 86c peak boost and rpm, normally I'd see 40-50c on a FMIC setup on this dyno peak!! However it was taking it run after run. Imagine what power it'd be with FMIC charge temps?!
The next and final test on the dyno for the day was a meth mix test. 20% meth, 80% fresh V-power. So we drained the tank and filled it with the meth mix:
I was hoping for a little more from the Meth, but what can I expect to achieve at 86c intake temp!! To be fair the meth burns cooler and cleaner, so in theory should stabilise the intake temperature. However after a discussion with the Andy it was obvious the crucial next modification was to deal with the intake temperature issue and aspire to extract the most we can out of this setup before moving on.
So to the driving home bit and the road test. It sounded mean, very mean, probably a little too loud as a daily driver, but definitely brought a smile to my face. Jumped on the *** back towards Wrexham and very quickly noticed how much more responsive the car was, how much smoother and also how much more spool was available from the turbo. The Simtek has made me wonder whether 10kg has fallen off my fly-wheel or if I'd missed a big button in the original ECU entitled 'click here for normal throttle response'. If anyone is skeptical themselves, then pop down and you can drive it back to back on each ECU!! The original ECU vs Simtek test was going to be only a trial week on the Simtek, but now i've felt what it can drive like then I'm going to have to buy one for this car, otherwise we'll step backwards.
So overall review of the mods so far:
Turbo back exhaust needs complementing with decat up-pipe on WRX models at least, I believe the headers contributed considerably to efficiency of gas exhausting.
TMIC is crap, although we are going to use some unorthodox methods to try and retain this, just for fun!
Simtek = awesome, drive ability improved 200%, start-up and idle is 100% better than original ECU full stop. Definitely excels as an ECU and worth the money, although if you'd asked me before I might not have been so convinced that it would make such a difference!
Hope you enjoyed that part of the update, stay tuned for more....
Graham
Last edited by EngineMapper @ Group B Motorsport; 13 August 2011 at 01:32 AM.
13 August 2011, 11:09 PM
#107
Engine Specialist
Thread Starter
Fair comment and really the most logical next step. Andy and I have discussed this, I definitely favour jumping straight to a FMIC as I know it's the most effective way to go, but we've decided to try some unothodox methods first to see how far we can stretch the TMIC.
Thanks for all the positive comments! We had our first failure tonight of an up-pipe gasket. They were fairly cheap fibrous gaskets rather than the original steel Subaru, so I'm getting up tomorrow morning to replace that with a genuine and hopefully get out to a local meet.
Keep the suggestions coming!
Graham
14 August 2011, 12:11 AM
#108
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: holywell north wales
Posts: 1,738
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just a few words from me, id seen this thread appear in March and though then, this will make an interesting Scooby read.
The do’s and don’t and will it or will it not make a difference are what’s always on peoples mind, and the fact how much do I spend an what on … .. . .
Over the last 6 months Graham and Andy have achieved a lot , with a lot of questions already been answered , depending on how much power to actually want that is .
It was about 3 weeks ago that I actually met graham and the test car at work (Silverstone Autosport) wanting to try out the new turbo set up and I thought seams a nice chap !… Since then , with me now with having burnt fingers from changing plugs , lack of hearing from the growl of the exhaust from dyno runs , and still finding tools that are missing , ive decided that this project is in very safe hands with graham , he brings a whole new experience and quality with what people call mapping .
As for the car I had the pleasure in having a drive in her on Friday with the standard ecu fitted and I was impressed it drove well, 4500 revs it just came alive.
Graham then said the next step was the simtek, he knows what I thought of them , ive seen a few come into work with poor idle and starting issues and the customers blaming the ecu.. so I was a little doubtful …….. However he has completely proven me wong the car idles like a little clock and even on those big injectors when the standard ecu struggled.. And I had the pleasure of having a drive in it today, if I had closed my eyes I would of thought I was in a different car, it was so smooth just a couple of % on the throttle pedal and the car responded with what ever you wanted from it , power delivery was again very good but a lot smoother , It was so much more enjoyable to drive , I just never thought that a ecu (simtek) could actually be that good ..
I think that if anyone currently has a simtek fitted to there car and has any issues just give graham a bell, im sure he will cure whatever the issue you have with it .
That’s my thoughts on things the way they stand , cracking project so far , im looking forward to the next step .
Rich
The do’s and don’t and will it or will it not make a difference are what’s always on peoples mind, and the fact how much do I spend an what on … .. . .
Over the last 6 months Graham and Andy have achieved a lot , with a lot of questions already been answered , depending on how much power to actually want that is .
It was about 3 weeks ago that I actually met graham and the test car at work (Silverstone Autosport) wanting to try out the new turbo set up and I thought seams a nice chap !… Since then , with me now with having burnt fingers from changing plugs , lack of hearing from the growl of the exhaust from dyno runs , and still finding tools that are missing , ive decided that this project is in very safe hands with graham , he brings a whole new experience and quality with what people call mapping .
As for the car I had the pleasure in having a drive in her on Friday with the standard ecu fitted and I was impressed it drove well, 4500 revs it just came alive.
Graham then said the next step was the simtek, he knows what I thought of them , ive seen a few come into work with poor idle and starting issues and the customers blaming the ecu.. so I was a little doubtful …….. However he has completely proven me wong the car idles like a little clock and even on those big injectors when the standard ecu struggled.. And I had the pleasure of having a drive in it today, if I had closed my eyes I would of thought I was in a different car, it was so smooth just a couple of % on the throttle pedal and the car responded with what ever you wanted from it , power delivery was again very good but a lot smoother , It was so much more enjoyable to drive , I just never thought that a ecu (simtek) could actually be that good ..
I think that if anyone currently has a simtek fitted to there car and has any issues just give graham a bell, im sure he will cure whatever the issue you have with it .
That’s my thoughts on things the way they stand , cracking project so far , im looking forward to the next step .
Rich
14 August 2011, 05:28 PM
#109
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Somewhere halfway between heaven and hell, some call it earth!
Posts: 1,305
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You say the Simtek was 'barely mapped', had you given more time mapping it, do you believe it would have made a greater achievement over standard or was it at peak?
14 August 2011, 06:58 PM
#111
Engine Specialist
Thread Starter
Graham
14 August 2011, 07:00 PM
#112
Engine Specialist
Thread Starter
Graham
15 August 2011, 10:34 AM
#113
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: holywell
Posts: 453
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes this is the most obvious and possibly what we should do next, either that or just go front mount? However, we do like to challenge the 'norm' and with this in mind we want to try water injection as the answer to the intake temp problem.
Ive been using an aquamist system on the rally car for a long while, although I have a FMIC, when running the antilag in stage it generates alot of heat and the water injection drops the temps by around 30deg.
Injecting water into the cylinders also adds extra oxygen which in theory should give more power? It's probably not as practical as fitting a better intercooler but will be interesting to test?................keep watching.
Ive been using an aquamist system on the rally car for a long while, although I have a FMIC, when running the antilag in stage it generates alot of heat and the water injection drops the temps by around 30deg.
Injecting water into the cylinders also adds extra oxygen which in theory should give more power? It's probably not as practical as fitting a better intercooler but will be interesting to test?................keep watching.
15 August 2011, 11:55 AM
#114
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Dublin,Ireland
Posts: 641
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This really is a great thread to Follow,read and understand what each and every mod minor or major does for the engine.
I'm interested in one part in particular , running the large 750cc injectors and getting start up and idle perfect and better than when running the standard ecu on the car. Is cold start good also? And economy when cruising is it much the same?
I ask because I have just ran in an engine and is ripe for mapping shortly, Its a fully forged 2.5 with V4 sti heads,Autronic Smc , but still running yellow 440cc injectors runing 0.7bar, was previously mapped to 1bar before the engine build and is still running that map.
I have a set of Nismo 740cc injectors to fit will these work and still retain fuel economy off boost driving and aslo a decent idle and cold start up?
Cold start was never setup on it previously which can be a pain
I'm interested in one part in particular , running the large 750cc injectors and getting start up and idle perfect and better than when running the standard ecu on the car. Is cold start good also? And economy when cruising is it much the same?
I ask because I have just ran in an engine and is ripe for mapping shortly, Its a fully forged 2.5 with V4 sti heads,Autronic Smc , but still running yellow 440cc injectors runing 0.7bar, was previously mapped to 1bar before the engine build and is still running that map.
I have a set of Nismo 740cc injectors to fit will these work and still retain fuel economy off boost driving and aslo a decent idle and cold start up?
Cold start was never setup on it previously which can be a pain
15 August 2011, 02:28 PM
#115
Yes this is the most obvious and possibly what we should do next, either that or just go front mount? However, we do like to challenge the 'norm' and with this in mind we want to try water injection as the answer to the intake temp problem.
Ive been using an aquamist system on the rally car for a long while, although I have a FMIC, when running the antilag in stage it generates alot of heat and the water injection drops the temps by around 30deg.
Injecting water into the cylinders also adds extra oxygen which in theory should give more power? It's probably not as practical as fitting a better intercooler but will be interesting to test?................keep watching.
Ive been using an aquamist system on the rally car for a long while, although I have a FMIC, when running the antilag in stage it generates alot of heat and the water injection drops the temps by around 30deg.
Injecting water into the cylinders also adds extra oxygen which in theory should give more power? It's probably not as practical as fitting a better intercooler but will be interesting to test?................keep watching.
I would say an STi TMIC with an aquamist setup would be awesome at keeping temperatures down, without the need for a FMIC and all it's pipework.
However, will you be setting up a failsafe mechanism? e.g. when the water/meth level (whichever you choose to inject) is running low, or when the injector is blocked, will you have it so it triggers a limp home mode? This is something which is discussed at great lengths over on NASIOC.
I would love to give water/meth injection a go, however, I would be worried about it failing and blowing the engine!
15 August 2011, 07:53 PM
#116
Engine Specialist
Thread Starter
This really is a great thread to Follow,read and understand what each and every mod minor or major does for the engine.
I'm interested in one part in particular , running the large 750cc injectors and getting start up and idle perfect and better than when running the standard ecu on the car. Is cold start good also? And economy when cruising is it much the same?
I ask because I have just ran in an engine and is ripe for mapping shortly, Its a fully forged 2.5 with V4 sti heads,Autronic Smc , but still running yellow 440cc injectors runing 0.7bar, was previously mapped to 1bar before the engine build and is still running that map.
I have a set of Nismo 740cc injectors to fit will these work and still retain fuel economy off boost driving and aslo a decent idle and cold start up?
Cold start was never setup on it previously which can be a pain
I'm interested in one part in particular , running the large 750cc injectors and getting start up and idle perfect and better than when running the standard ecu on the car. Is cold start good also? And economy when cruising is it much the same?
I ask because I have just ran in an engine and is ripe for mapping shortly, Its a fully forged 2.5 with V4 sti heads,Autronic Smc , but still running yellow 440cc injectors runing 0.7bar, was previously mapped to 1bar before the engine build and is still running that map.
I have a set of Nismo 740cc injectors to fit will these work and still retain fuel economy off boost driving and aslo a decent idle and cold start up?
Cold start was never setup on it previously which can be a pain
It retains the closed loop lambda for cruising and idle and if mapped in all the low load throttle sites will still retain as good economy as smaller injectors. However as we are running meth, the stochiometric point is lower, so it will consume between 10-15% more generally anyway, but as meth is 75p a little approx, it is 50% cheaper than V-Power. So doing the maths it's £28.80 approx for 20L of V-Power, mixed with 20% meth this brings it down to £26.04 per 20L. A tank will cost £65.01 instead of £72, (based on 50L). That's a saving of 10%, so it's approximately going to cost the same as pure V-Power vs the fuel consumption of the mix, yet I'm getting 20bhp more!
ScoobyDoo, the safety mechanism is really already built into the Simtek and most aftermarket ECUs, in the sense that they will retard the ignition timing when the air intake temperature is above a preset point with a preset curve. So really if I know the aquamist allows me to put in another 2 degrees of timing at 30c, but when off will rise to 40+ then I can take those 2 degrees out above that temperature etc etc
I've driven the car quite a bit over the last few days and am loving the change in character from the standard car and from the standard ECU. The Simtek really allows me to tweak every last part of the drive-ability from when I start the key in the mornings, to the point when the headers start to glow!
I still haven't yet been tempted to wire the anti-lag or the enable the launch.
Graham
17 August 2011, 10:40 AM
#118
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: holywell
Posts: 453
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well ive finally managed to drive my car 
I have to say it's fantastic, to be fair I havn't driven it since the first re-map (268bhp) and although the car was much better than standard the transformation now is worlds apart. I guess getting 50% extra BHP from stock will make a difference
We had a good debate about the next steps while we fitted the water injection yesterday, the result being that ive just got hold of an STI top mount. It will be interesting to test the water injection but we want to go for the most common mod that most owners will do. The conversation Graham had with the Guy from Brecon swung it.........Thanks
Grahams hoping to test the water injection in the next few days.
Results to follow...................
I have to say it's fantastic, to be fair I havn't driven it since the first re-map (268bhp) and although the car was much better than standard the transformation now is worlds apart. I guess getting 50% extra BHP from stock will make a difference We had a good debate about the next steps while we fitted the water injection yesterday, the result being that ive just got hold of an STI top mount. It will be interesting to test the water injection but we want to go for the most common mod that most owners will do. The conversation Graham had with the Guy from Brecon swung it.........Thanks
Grahams hoping to test the water injection in the next few days.
Results to follow...................
17 August 2011, 01:50 PM
#119
Scooby Regular
If you go straight to a FMIC I think you're missing a trick with what the Newage STI TMIC can do for you. If it's a case of cost and it works out the same kind of money, I would agree a FMIC would be logical.
Also measuring temps on a dyno can be subjective imo (the environment is artificial)..... others will argue that (normally the ones that own dynos lol). If you're going to measure air temps, do it on the road associated to real world airflow imo.
Also measuring temps on a dyno can be subjective imo (the environment is artificial)..... others will argue that (normally the ones that own dynos lol). If you're going to measure air temps, do it on the road associated to real world airflow imo.
17 August 2011, 02:03 PM
#120
Engine Specialist
Thread Starter
If you go straight to a FMIC I think you're missing a trick with what the Newage STI TMIC can do for you. If it's a case of cost and it works out the same kind of money, I would agree a FMIC would be logical.
Also measuring temps on a dyno can be subjective imo (the environment is artificial)..... others will argue that (normally the ones that own dynos lol). If you're going to measure air temps, do it on the road associated to real world airflow imo.
Also measuring temps on a dyno can be subjective imo (the environment is artificial)..... others will argue that (normally the ones that own dynos lol). If you're going to measure air temps, do it on the road associated to real world airflow imo.
Also agreed on the temperature situation, I've been monitoring charge temperatures on the road and have found that we are more likely running around 50-60c on a good blast. I think on the dyno I artificially run it harder with so much mapping is so little time.
The aqua-mist is more of a small experiment to satisfy myself and Andy's curiosity.
I think I'm going to spend a little time trying to maximise the current setup in terms of spool, bhp and torque. What convinced me was the thread last year about a car running a VF35 at 382.5bhp. Of course this could have been pie in the sky, but it got me thinking. With careful porting of exhaust and turbo components, right selection and careful mapping could we genuinely see 360-370bhp from it? I don't see why not, 340bhp currently is with meth, hopefully with the addition of the STI TMIC we will see 350-355? maybe more. Then perhaps with a little tickling of the exhaust we might be able to see more. I plan on going back to V-Power for now, just to keep the thread in touch with most people's expectations, but will use meth to reach the goal if we have to.
Graham
Last edited by EngineMapper @ Group B Motorsport; 17 August 2011 at 02:05 PM.