The legacy is classed as midsize in the US, whereas over here, it's big; with our shrinking parking spaces (and expanding occupants), so makes sense to push one of the more popular utility vehicles in that market.

2.5% is peanuts, compared to a 450-500 monthly premium on a new diesel outback.

Together with the attitude from certain dealers, it's no wonder new car sales are in the toilet.

The second hand market is another matter, though; as depreciation can pay for a lot of road tax and petrol on an older car.

 

That was a rather briefer version, matching the intellect displayed by your previous anti Subaru rantings.

Anyway, I've just been seeing what's going on in Japan right now. That's what I call truly shocking.

 

Pathetic really, i actually feel sorry for you. Maybe one day the usual new impreza bashers will not feel it necessary to post their usual cr*p on here. Jog on fools.

 

errr when have we said that F1?

We've said the US market is more important to Subaru than th UK one I agree... but we've never said the Impreza is a US success... the Legacy and Forester are their best sellers..

 

I was simply making the point that I suspect Subaru UK will have to do better than a 2.5% discount to lift sales.

And that they are struggling to keep old Subaru owners like me interested in overpriced vehicles ... especially the Impreza STi.

£31k+ is just plain madness IMO

 

I suspect that the only way Subaru UK will get you to buy a new Subaru is if they throw in a free age reducing drug. Im guessing that the largest obstacle they have is your age rather than anything else, but you keep telling yourself that its the poor offers/prices.

 

Yeah - very funny!!

Nowt to do with age ... everything to do with build quality and the plastics of a garden centre plantpot!

And the small matter of being hugely overpriced for a car which saw the end of it's days of desireability 5 years ago!

 

Seriously why are you on here? you drive a bland, boring honda oil burner that is hardly stylish or well made.

 

I've been driving an '08 for weeks now. We've just rebuilt it with Cosworth pistons and rods, SC46 turbo and Perrin front mount.
The owner wanted me to run it in, then carry out a whole range of other improvements. In my daily travels, I've found most people are interested in it, and admire it greatly. The only other place I've seen one is in our garage, they are actually quite a rare sight on the road, obviously due to the small numbers sold over here. It was always going to be sold in small numbers, Subaru clearly having the view that the writing was on the wall for the earlier demographic. From start to finish the car has been aimed at another market.
It is easily possible to build a stunning car from that base, either seriously showy or properly stealthy.
I have to say as I find.
It's a car that can provide just about anything you want in terms of excitement, and comparing it with a Honda dishwasher is just ridiculous.

 

Furious back peddling in motion LOL!

 

I see where you're coming from here, but I still think it's a shame that out of the box the current car is so different from the cars that defined the market here in the UK at least. As much as the UK isn't a huge market it isn't insignificant for Subaru either and at at one time drove their European sales more than any other country in the EU.

Anyway we are where we are and as everyone tells me time to move on.

Oh and despite Pete's efforts don't call all Hondas dishwashers. Have owned a DC2 Integra and my pal has a DC5. I am happy to say, but the build and engineering on those from the factory are as good as anything Subaru have made.

 

But now you are bringing JDM into the equation, bet if the DC5 had a UK version it would also be a bit down on spec.

 

I wouldn't be so crass as to lump all Hondas together in that way. I think we all know what a "dishwasher" is! Also it's fair to say the actual engineering on a Honda is a damn sight better than a Subaru. What I like about Subarus is being able to pootle about shopping, then blow away motorbikes on B roads, then give it stick in the muddy lanes that surround my house, without a whole lot of "traction control"

 

Honda's are simply much better built than a Subaru ... to suggest otherwise is to seriously show yourself up.

Honda's are reliable - as are Subaru's ... now, as for style and finish and equipment - I'm sorry - by any measure, Honda's are far superior.

Choose which you would rather have ....

Dishwasher 1:-

http://www.japanesesportcars.com/gal...vic-type-r.jpg

Dishwasher 2:-

http://www.carpages.co.uk/subaru/sub...i-21-07-09.jpg

I've been as fair as I can be in the choice of pictures.

One other small matter ... the ugly one (Dishwasher 2) ... is a full £14,000 MORE than the style Icon in the top photo.

Sorry, doesn't add up anymore - and, as my first post indicated, a pathetic 2.5% Off isn't going to turn an overpriced 'has-been' into a desireable 'wanna be'!!

 

i can smell a visit to top gear , STAR IN A REASONABLY PRICED CAR , and today we have PS LEWIS in his honda trying to beat the time set by stevie wonders guide dog

 

^^ Now, that's FUNNY!! ^^

 

One other small matter ... the ugly one (Dishwasher 2) ... is a full £14,000 MORE than the style Icon in the top photo.
[/quote]

Here is why you muppet (taken from Times reveiw of the Typr R);

Don’t, though. Because almost everything else about it is rubbish.
First of all there’s the driver’s seat, which is adjusted with a ratchet rather than a wheel. This means you can’t fine-tune the angle of the backrest. You either sit bolt upright, like you’re at the kitchen table, or you lounge, like Sylvia Kristel in those early Emmanuelle films.
Next there’s the rear spoiler. From the outside it looks great, arching across the rear window like that, but from the inside it means you cannot see the car behind. You may as well use the rear-view mirror as a handy place to stick Postit notes for all the good it does.
And now we move into the realms of what you get for the money. I’ll save you the bother of looking it up. It’s diddly squat. Not even sat nav, which is a nuisance when you’re on that big roundabout in Rugby and all the signposts are pointing to places you’ve never heard of. Leamington or Southam? How about neither.
Engine? Well what they’ve done is taken the 198bhp unit from the old Civic and popped it, pretty much unchanged, into the new one. That, of course, would be fine if the new one weighed the same as the old one, but it doesn’t. It weighs a whole lot more.
This then is like saying, “Hmmm. We need a new engine to power the Queen Mary. I know.
Let’s get one out of that jet ski over there.”
Yes, it is still a fine engine. I really do love the revviness of all those VTEC units. But the new Civic is bound to be slightly slower and slightly less economical than the old one. And where’s the progress in that Honda, with your Earth Car and your Power of Dreams ad campaign? The fact of the matter is that Ford, Renault, Vauxhall and Volkswagen can all sell you a hatchback with much more get up and go.
Cunningly, Honda has tried to mask this lack of oomph by fitting the new Type R with a suspension system that, plainly, is made out of bricks. Even my wife, who likes hard-riding cars and thinks the Subaru Impreza is “a bit soft”, was alarmed by the way the Honda leapt and crashed down the road.
Me? I think it’s a disgrace. I don’t care what it’s like on a track, or when it’s doing handbrake turns in a supermarket car park: on a normal road, on a normal day, the ride quality is completely unacceptable. Anyone whose body is held together with a skeleton is going to come home every night in several agonising pieces.
And on top of all this the car I drove could not find Radio 2. It just locked on to Radio 1, which completed my discomfort as surely as if I’d slammed my head in the door.
All things considered, then, I pretty much hated it. It is nowhere near as good as a Golf GTI because, to be honest, it’s nowhere near as good as walking. This, I feel sure, will guarantee its success among the earwig boys.

 

Cut'N'Paste ... Cut'N'Paste ... and not even edited to make it pleasant to read - so, I didn't bother!!

Mine is the softer Type S 2.2 Diesel anyway ... it is far better than the TypeR ... the image was simply to prove beyond all doubt that the Civic looks far better than an Impreza STi HatchBack.

 

As Im a fan of Help the aged I have done the hard work to help you Pete.




Here is why you muppet (taken from Times reveiw of the Typr R);

Don’t, though. Because almost everything else about it is rubbish.

First of all there’s the driver’s seat, which is adjusted with a ratchet rather than a wheel. This means you can’t fine-tune the angle of the backrest. You either sit bolt upright, like you’re at the kitchen table, or you lounge, like Sylvia Kristel in those early Emmanuelle films.

Next there’s the rear spoiler. From the outside it looks great, arching across the rear window like that, but from the inside it means you cannot see the car behind. You may as well use the rear-view mirror as a handy place to stick Postit notes for all the good it does.

And now we move into the realms of what you get for the money. I’ll save you the bother of looking it up. It’s diddly squat. Not even sat nav, which is a nuisance when you’re on that big roundabout in Rugby and all the signposts are pointing to places you’ve never heard of. Leamington or Southam? How about neither.

Engine? Well what they’ve done is taken the 198bhp unit from the old Civic and popped it, pretty much unchanged, into the new one. That, of course, would be fine if the new one weighed the same as the old one, but it doesn’t. It weighs a whole lot more.
This then is like saying, “Hmmm. We need a new engine to power the Queen Mary. I know.
Let’s get one out of that jet ski over there.”

Yes, it is still a fine engine. I really do love the revviness of all those VTEC units. But the new Civic is bound to be slightly slower and slightly less economical than the old one. And where’s the progress in that Honda, with your Earth Car and your Power of Dreams ad campaign? The fact of the matter is that Ford, Renault, Vauxhall and Volkswagen can all sell you a hatchback with much more get up and go.

Cunningly, Honda has tried to mask this lack of oomph by fitting the new Type R with a suspension system that, plainly, is made out of bricks. Even my wife, who likes hard-riding cars and thinks the Subaru Impreza is “a bit soft”, was alarmed by the way the Honda leapt and crashed down the road.
Me? I think it’s a disgrace. I don’t care what it’s like on a track, or when it’s doing handbrake turns in a supermarket car park: on a normal road, on a normal day, the ride quality is completely unacceptable. Anyone whose body is held together with a skeleton is going to come home every night in several agonising pieces.

And on top of all this the car I drove could not find Radio 2. It just locked on to Radio 1, which completed my discomfort as surely as if I’d slammed my head in the door.

All things considered, then, I pretty much hated it. It is nowhere near as good as a Golf GTI because, to be honest, it’s nowhere near as good as walking. This, I feel sure, will guarantee its success among the earwig boys.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

 

A PS Lewis debate on the premise that black is in fact white.
"Look, it just is, ok?"

 

With this obvious colour distinction issue, does PS Lewis have problems with the pink or brown question.

 

I like the way you are trying to preach to the engine tuner about Impreza's
I recon you try and tell your dad how to sh@g as well don't you.

 

31k for a Subaru imo is far to much. I bought a new one 4 years ago and never again just not worth it. With petrol prices and tax I just could not justify it anymore.

The other thing I would never do again is modify it.Money that you never ever get back.

If I actually look back at some of my favourite cars of the past such as the Pug 1.9 GTI and Golf GTI they are so much nicer just standard

 

A torquey diesel Legacy, Pete. Beats your Honda hands down.

 

I paid £22k for my Impreza, new.

I owned it for over 10 years ... it was superb, reliable, did everything I asked of it.

But that was a different age.

The Subarus nowadays are simply not inspiring, not value for money, not quality, not very fast, not wanted, not stylish, not comfortable, not built with decent materials, not practical, not equiped to modern expectations ...... etc. etc.

Now, of course, you get the die-hards who would buy a Subaru however bad they get (I did think I was one of those people) ..... that doesn't mean they are a car of choice for the intelligent - they are not, not on any level at all ..... which is sad!

 

The only sad thing around here, Pete, is your goodself. You continually come onto a Subaru forum, having made the decision to buy a Honda diesel, and try to convince us all that you are the smart guy and everyone else is an idiot for sticking with Subaru. It's long odds on that you are simply trying to convince yourself that you haven't dropped a bo llock in buying a car that must be about as exciting as a wet weekend in Morecambe. Give it a rest, son, you have become the forum joke.

 

QFE

You defo dropped one Petey - just move to a Honda forum and stop slating our cars Might possibly stop you from stressing too

 

He did move to the Honda Forum, but was banned before too long:

http://www.civinfo.com/forum/general...rbo-civic.html

FWIW I've just changed my '05 wagon for a 56 Type S GT Diesel aswell. You cant compare the two cars IMO.

You either want a fast car with great grip and crap running costs that rattles quite a bit, or a well built, cheap to run car with great interior and a bit more toys.

At least I still have my '93 car for fun Should have kept your old wagon aswell Pete

 

Keeping an old classic as a toy wasn't an option - I have an old MX5 for my go-kart thrills

The Type S GT Diesel Honda is, as you say, well built - well equiped and full of toys ... it's also got 340Nm of torque which means it pulls like a steam train!!

Don't get me wrong - I am a big fan of Subaru ... just they have nothing of any interest in their line-up at the moment - and 2.5% will not change that.

 

I also believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion. It is also possible that people in this case would agree with Pete like myself.

Lets face it they are overpriced, unreliable and the interors our like something out of a Datson.

I have always been a huge Subaru fan but in recent years I think they have lost their way. In fact I can hardly remember when I last saw one of their new hatches on the road.

What made Subaru so iconic in the early 90s was their reliabilty, price and stand out hard as nails looks imo they have lost all that. Sorry Subaru