Question for Sam - RE: HKS Induction Kit
22 March 2001, 06:21 PM
#31
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My two pence worth(based only on experience);have tried three different induction kits on three different scoobies(one standard UK,one with PPP and one STi)The kits made no difference to the way the car felt at all,if anything on one of them it made the car feel more lethargic.15 BHP, I d'ont think so!!!I'm afraid I d'ont have the intellectual capacity to argue physics with you but I've got the experience of 3 scoobs.
22 March 2001, 11:28 PM
#32
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 1999
Location: SSO2003 2nd, SSO2005 1st, SSO2006 2nd, TACC Rd4 5th 4wd: In my car ;-)
Posts: 2,637
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmmmm,
So WRC cars have to use turbo restrictors purely to induce more heat into the turbo, to restrict the cars power......tosh.
I've done back to back testing on two induction systems (car never left the RR).
There was a 30bhp difference between the two systems, and the more restrictive system increased the CO' by 3.5%.
The main problem is that it gets to the point where the standard ECU just can't cope with the extra mod's.
Mark.
So WRC cars have to use turbo restrictors purely to induce more heat into the turbo, to restrict the cars power......tosh.
I've done back to back testing on two induction systems (car never left the RR).
There was a 30bhp difference between the two systems, and the more restrictive system increased the CO' by 3.5%.
The main problem is that it gets to the point where the standard ECU just can't cope with the extra mod's.
Mark.
23 March 2001, 10:26 AM
#33
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 3,055
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shaun.
You talk so much tosh some times!!!!!
There is absolutely no question that my car was more powerful after fitting my induction kit. Heat soak only becomes an issue when the car is moving slowly or not at all, but once up to speed it becomes irrelevant. In the summer the temperature of the air coming through the duct is the same regardless whether it's going into an airbox or onto a cone. The duct for the old air box remains in my case, so air is ducted directly onto the cone from that, as well as from my new bonnet scoop.
Even on a rolling road, where an induction kit is less likely to perform due to the lack of airflow, my car still showed grest gains.
I don't think K&N have got one of the best rolling roads in the country for no reason?
It may be different for Cossies, but this is Scoobynet so koff!
Stef.
You talk so much tosh some times!!!!!
There is absolutely no question that my car was more powerful after fitting my induction kit. Heat soak only becomes an issue when the car is moving slowly or not at all, but once up to speed it becomes irrelevant. In the summer the temperature of the air coming through the duct is the same regardless whether it's going into an airbox or onto a cone. The duct for the old air box remains in my case, so air is ducted directly onto the cone from that, as well as from my new bonnet scoop.
Even on a rolling road, where an induction kit is less likely to perform due to the lack of airflow, my car still showed grest gains.
I don't think K&N have got one of the best rolling roads in the country for no reason?
It may be different for Cossies, but this is Scoobynet so koff!
Stef.
23 March 2001, 12:27 PM
#35
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by R19KET:
<B>Hmmmm,
So WRC cars have to use turbo restrictors purely to induce more heat into the turbo, to restrict the cars power......tosh.
[/quote]
WRC have to use restrictors 'cos the rules say so... but it does put heat into the air charge due to the reduction in compressor efficiency - check out the amount of intercooling they run though
Rich
<B>Hmmmm,
So WRC cars have to use turbo restrictors purely to induce more heat into the turbo, to restrict the cars power......tosh.
[/quote]
WRC have to use restrictors 'cos the rules say so... but it does put heat into the air charge due to the reduction in compressor efficiency - check out the amount of intercooling they run though
Rich
23 March 2001, 01:58 PM
#36
Scooby Regular
Stef,
You know as much about engines and physics as I know about taking the correct lines at Donnington!!!!!!
"There is absolutely no question that my car was more powerful after fitting my induction kit."
Have you bench dynoed this before and after then?? Are you sure you are not getting MORE POWER mixed up with MORE RESPONSIVE????
"Heat soak only becomes an issue when the car is moving slowly or not at all, but once up to speed it becomes irrelevant."
*****!!!!!! Admittedly once you are moving the heat problem will be less, but NO WAY will it be as excluded as a direct fed enclosed air-box system. Have you tested the charge temp via electronic thermometer......I thought not!!! But then again you could always borrow mine....I think you will find the results VERY interesting!!!!!
"In the summer the temperature of the air coming through the duct is the same regardless whether it's going into an airbox or onto a cone."
Again mate, try the above experiment!!! The Summer is where you will find the biggest differences between Induction Kit and Air Box!!!!
"Even on a rolling road, where an induction kit is less likely to perform due to the lack of airflow, my car still showed grest gains."
But don't we all know RR are abosolute crappo!!!
"I don't think K&N have got one of the best rolling roads in the country for no reason?"
What is that just to show us people how ineffective there induction kits are then!!??
"It may be different for Cossies, but this is Scoobynet so koff!"
Ooooooooooo
I can quite possibly believe that a standard air box and pipe work on a Scoob could be restrictive. If this was the case, then a properly designed one (pipe work less restrictive, better airflow, but still a panel and enclosed) would still out perform an induction kit!!!!!!!
Hey, but what do I know......I only own a crappy Escort Cossie!!!!!
Shaun.
You know as much about engines and physics as I know about taking the correct lines at Donnington!!!!!!
"There is absolutely no question that my car was more powerful after fitting my induction kit."
Have you bench dynoed this before and after then?? Are you sure you are not getting MORE POWER mixed up with MORE RESPONSIVE????
"Heat soak only becomes an issue when the car is moving slowly or not at all, but once up to speed it becomes irrelevant."
*****!!!!!! Admittedly once you are moving the heat problem will be less, but NO WAY will it be as excluded as a direct fed enclosed air-box system. Have you tested the charge temp via electronic thermometer......I thought not!!! But then again you could always borrow mine....I think you will find the results VERY interesting!!!!!
"In the summer the temperature of the air coming through the duct is the same regardless whether it's going into an airbox or onto a cone."
Again mate, try the above experiment!!! The Summer is where you will find the biggest differences between Induction Kit and Air Box!!!!
"Even on a rolling road, where an induction kit is less likely to perform due to the lack of airflow, my car still showed grest gains."
But don't we all know RR are abosolute crappo!!!
"I don't think K&N have got one of the best rolling roads in the country for no reason?"
What is that just to show us people how ineffective there induction kits are then!!??
"It may be different for Cossies, but this is Scoobynet so koff!"
Ooooooooooo
I can quite possibly believe that a standard air box and pipe work on a Scoob could be restrictive. If this was the case, then a properly designed one (pipe work less restrictive, better airflow, but still a panel and enclosed) would still out perform an induction kit!!!!!!!
Hey, but what do I know......I only own a crappy Escort Cossie!!!!!
Shaun.
23 March 2001, 01:58 PM
#37
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 1,998
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gordon,
i have always been led to believe that a panel filter is better for a turbo engine.
to sort this out once and for all,why not take your car back to Star in April.i know it may be a bit warmer than the last day,but am sure Jim would have a note of the air temp. of the last day and be able to work out a true gain or loss for us.if there is a gain then Steven and the other non-believers(inc. me) could chip in a pay for your run and if there is a loss/same,Sam and the other believers could pay.Star's set up should aid the induction kit as they have,i think an 80mph large fan,they also feed cool air into the intercooler and the bonnet is open.come on lads put your money where your mouth is!!!
john
i have always been led to believe that a panel filter is better for a turbo engine.
to sort this out once and for all,why not take your car back to Star in April.i know it may be a bit warmer than the last day,but am sure Jim would have a note of the air temp. of the last day and be able to work out a true gain or loss for us.if there is a gain then Steven and the other non-believers(inc. me) could chip in a pay for your run and if there is a loss/same,Sam and the other believers could pay.Star's set up should aid the induction kit as they have,i think an 80mph large fan,they also feed cool air into the intercooler and the bonnet is open.come on lads put your money where your mouth is!!!
john
23 March 2001, 02:27 PM
#38
Scooby Regular
T-UK,
That's not the test you need to perform mate, cause this is only 1 dimensional. To get a real comparison you need to test the same car, back to back on a hot day in 4th and 5th gear........check the peak boost and held boost in both instances, along with responsiveness. I may see differences on cooler days, but they will be more obvious on a hot day!!
Shaun.
That's not the test you need to perform mate, cause this is only 1 dimensional. To get a real comparison you need to test the same car, back to back on a hot day in 4th and 5th gear........check the peak boost and held boost in both instances, along with responsiveness. I may see differences on cooler days, but they will be more obvious on a hot day!!
Shaun.
23 March 2001, 03:08 PM
#39
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What have I done? I just said that it sounds louder and pulls harder. I didn't mention anything about BHP gains. At first, I didn't notice any difference but then I thought it picked up that wee bit quicker. BHP could still be the same but I don't fancy standing on ANYBODIES toes by turning up at the RR in April just to prove something that you guys are arguing over. I ain't fussed as I'm happy with my car and personally speaking - cause it's my topic after all - I think the car drives/responses/pulls quicker. Now I've had a STD air box and an air box with a K&N panel filter and a Blitz Induction Kit - all on the same car (Not at once though!) and I think that the Blitz kit tips it all. At the end of the day - I just want to know if anyone else thinks it's a good buy and/or if the Induction Kit can be regarded as a suitable upgrade.
P.S. Sorry for any stress that I may have caused but the truth is out there and I'm just out looking for it.
P.S. Sorry for any stress that I may have caused but the truth is out there and I'm just out looking for it
.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post