Teacher's Pensions contributions to DOUBLE.
15 January 2011, 10:18 PM
#91
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League Tables and OFSTED Inspections were introduced by Labour in a desperate attempt to bring some accountability into the Teaching profession.
Teachers object to both measurements .... I leave you to consider why.
Teachers object to both measurements .... I leave you to consider why.
15 January 2011, 10:19 PM
#92
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15 January 2011, 10:21 PM
#93
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How about accountability for the legions of public sector none jobs and local council 'executives' on silly money?
15 January 2011, 10:25 PM
#94
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I mentioned quite a few figures .... from a starting salary of £22,000 through Teachers on £35,000 to an average in my school of £46.000 to Heads of Departments on £55,000 to Heads on £100,000 + A Lease Car fully expensed (from school funds)
Now, you ended on more than £22,000 - more than £35,000 and, I guess, very close to £46,000?
Puts your Pension at £23,000 a year and a Tax Free Lump Sum of £69,000 ... paid for from the current working peoples taxes, these people will get nowhere near your retirement payments.
That's your contract and good on you .... but, this thread is about whinging Teachers complaining about a request for them to contribute a bit more.
Out of interest, what age did you retire?
Now, you ended on more than £22,000 - more than £35,000 and, I guess, very close to £46,000?
Puts your Pension at £23,000 a year and a Tax Free Lump Sum of £69,000 ... paid for from the current working peoples taxes, these people will get nowhere near your retirement payments.
That's your contract and good on you .... but, this thread is about whinging Teachers complaining about a request for them to contribute a bit more.
Out of interest, what age did you retire?
Last edited by pslewis; 15 January 2011 at 10:27 PM.
16 January 2011, 10:45 AM
#95
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Teachers Pensions are final wage schemes, so they get the same money in pension as they were in the job. I know cos my Bro and Sis are teachers.
So only fair that they give a bit more from their £30k+ salaries.
Not all of us can afford a pension at all, let alone a final salary scheme.
So only fair that they give a bit more from their £30k+ salaries.
Not all of us can afford a pension at all, let alone a final salary scheme.
Les
16 January 2011, 11:06 AM
#96
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In all fairness Pete, the OFSTED aspect and league tables is a bit of an interesting one.
If you actually ask educators - and don't forget OFSTED lifts the "stone" on ALL aspects of an establishment -
Outcomes for learners
Quality of provision
Leadership & Management - including Governors
Safeguarding
Equality & Diversity
Educators don't have ANY issue with an OFSTED process. The issue that they take task with is that OFSTED have been known to (a) get "it" wrong, and (b) approach a centre/establishment with an agenda.
Personally, I LOVE it when OFSTED come in - (I'm an OFSTED Grade 1 lecturer working in a Grade 1 section (Music Tech) in an overall Grade 2 college) - bring it on.
OFSTED have also changed the grading criteria, so to make it harder to actually get a grade 1.
I love playing with the inspectors - they come in to my section and they are run RAGGED. One year I even had a set of trainers put to one side. I gave them to the inspector and said, "Try to keep up!"
I see it (as do the MAJORITY of lecturers and teachers) as an opportunity to show off what I/they do each and every day. The paperwork is always in place etc etc.
The management and governors usually don't get off so lightly - OFSTED changed it's focus last year to assessing Teaching & Learning - what ACTUALLY happens in the classrooms and have the students/kids learnt anything. The teaching staff finally rejoiced - less red tape!
The "suits" were assessed on their performances and for the first time in a LONG time, they were held accountable for their actions.
OFSTED still haven't got it right, but they're moving in the right direction.
So spare me the diatribe about lecturing/teaching staff not wanting OFSTED - it's actually the management and governors that don't want it, as the buck stops with them - and how their performance is then put into a league table (which actually means NOTHING at all)
I will concede that there are a proportion of teaching staff who are letting the side down (and by your constant berating, I can only assume that they mostly work in your school! ) - however, teaching standards are getting better and better (as is proven by the GCSE & A level results)
Speaking of which - I'd be REALLY interested to read your schools OFSTED report and league table placement.
What's the name of your school again?
If you actually ask educators - and don't forget OFSTED lifts the "stone" on ALL aspects of an establishment -
Outcomes for learners
Quality of provision
Leadership & Management - including Governors
Safeguarding
Equality & Diversity
Educators don't have ANY issue with an OFSTED process. The issue that they take task with is that OFSTED have been known to (a) get "it" wrong, and (b) approach a centre/establishment with an agenda.
Personally, I LOVE it when OFSTED come in - (I'm an OFSTED Grade 1 lecturer working in a Grade 1 section (Music Tech) in an overall Grade 2 college) - bring it on.
OFSTED have also changed the grading criteria, so to make it harder to actually get a grade 1.
I love playing with the inspectors - they come in to my section and they are run RAGGED. One year I even had a set of trainers put to one side. I gave them to the inspector and said, "Try to keep up!"
I see it (as do the MAJORITY of lecturers and teachers) as an opportunity to show off what I/they do each and every day. The paperwork is always in place etc etc.
The management and governors usually don't get off so lightly - OFSTED changed it's focus last year to assessing Teaching & Learning - what ACTUALLY happens in the classrooms and have the students/kids learnt anything. The teaching staff finally rejoiced - less red tape!
The "suits" were assessed on their performances and for the first time in a LONG time, they were held accountable for their actions.
OFSTED still haven't got it right, but they're moving in the right direction.
So spare me the diatribe about lecturing/teaching staff not wanting OFSTED - it's actually the management and governors that don't want it, as the buck stops with them - and how their performance is then put into a league table (which actually means NOTHING at all)
I will concede that there are a proportion of teaching staff who are letting the side down (and by your constant berating, I can only assume that they mostly work in your school!
) - however, teaching standards are getting better and better (as is proven by the GCSE & A level results)Speaking of which - I'd be REALLY interested to read your schools OFSTED report and league table placement.
What's the name of your school again?
16 January 2011, 02:48 PM
#98
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We all know P S Lewis is a troll who creates smoke and mirrors to cause friction.
I have friends who went into teaching IT came back out into industry for the money and better conditions and i have a friend who went in mid 20's with a golden hello 4 years ago give it three years when there are jobs in the private sector and a large number of quality people will leave civil service and teaching for where the money is in the private sector the public sector only looks good for the short period of the recession and for those who claim it as being so great working for the Government why aren't you working in it??
All those comments about getting the civil service into the real world i spent 10 years in construction getting between 4 & 6 % year on year wage rises and endless overtime my clients in Local Government didnt and the equivalent role in local government P60 earnings were about 30% less than mine and they were not allowed to receive paid overtime they just got TOIL, i was approached more than once to move from private to public sector but didnt because of the massive cut in wages and benefit, but i am sure PS Lewis will choose to ignore these facts.
I have friends who went into teaching IT came back out into industry for the money and better conditions and i have a friend who went in mid 20's with a golden hello 4 years ago give it three years when there are jobs in the private sector and a large number of quality people will leave civil service and teaching for where the money is in the private sector the public sector only looks good for the short period of the recession and for those who claim it as being so great working for the Government why aren't you working in it??
All those comments about getting the civil service into the real world i spent 10 years in construction getting between 4 & 6 % year on year wage rises and endless overtime my clients in Local Government didnt and the equivalent role in local government P60 earnings were about 30% less than mine and they were not allowed to receive paid overtime they just got TOIL, i was approached more than once to move from private to public sector but didnt because of the massive cut in wages and benefit, but i am sure PS Lewis will choose to ignore these facts.
16 January 2011, 03:17 PM
#99
We all know P S Lewis is a troll who creates smoke and mirrors to cause friction.
I have friends who went into teaching IT came back out into industry for the money and better conditions and i have a friend who went in mid 20's with a golden hello 4 years ago give it three years when there are jobs in the private sector and a large number of quality people will leave civil service and teaching for where the money is in the private sector the public sector only looks good for the short period of the recession and for those who claim it as being so great working for the Government why aren't you working in it??
All those comments about getting the civil service into the real world i spent 10 years in construction getting between 4 & 6 % year on year wage rises and endless overtime my clients in Local Government didnt and the equivalent role in local government P60 earnings were about 30% less than mine and they were not allowed to receive paid overtime they just got TOIL, i was approached more than once to move from private to public sector but didnt because of the massive cut in wages and benefit, but i am sure PS Lewis will choose to ignore these facts.
I have friends who went into teaching IT came back out into industry for the money and better conditions and i have a friend who went in mid 20's with a golden hello 4 years ago give it three years when there are jobs in the private sector and a large number of quality people will leave civil service and teaching for where the money is in the private sector the public sector only looks good for the short period of the recession and for those who claim it as being so great working for the Government why aren't you working in it??
All those comments about getting the civil service into the real world i spent 10 years in construction getting between 4 & 6 % year on year wage rises and endless overtime my clients in Local Government didnt and the equivalent role in local government P60 earnings were about 30% less than mine and they were not allowed to receive paid overtime they just got TOIL, i was approached more than once to move from private to public sector but didnt because of the massive cut in wages and benefit, but i am sure PS Lewis will choose to ignore these facts.
Anyway lets not forget all the free holidays Teachers get as well .Skiing ,outdoor pursuits ,strolling around in the sunshine abroad ,just for volunteering to go with the kids on the school trips !!!
16 January 2011, 06:00 PM
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I'm not trying to vilify academia just stating the obvious. It's a refuge for many people, but it doesn't look like that on the inside.
16 January 2011, 06:06 PM
#101
Scooby Regular
I never said that Civil Servants don't get a bum deal .... I think they do!! An Engineer in the Civil Service has an equivalent in outside industry to be compared to.
Teachers do not have an equivalent outside the comfort zone which is Education .... and therefore we cannot compare like for like - but, an average pay of £46,000 a year with 60 days holiday and 26 directed hours a week is not half bad by any measure!!
We tend to forget all the foreign holidays Teachers get - paid for by the Parents of the children they escort ...... Spain, Switzerland, France, USA ....... not only that - the Teachers also take their partners with them to 'assist' in the childcare!! What a farce!!!
It's simply because Teachers bleet and moan and blub and look for sympathy that makes my blood boil .................. let them lap it up, but they should stay very, very quiet!!!
Teachers do not have an equivalent outside the comfort zone which is Education .... and therefore we cannot compare like for like - but, an average pay of £46,000 a year with 60 days holiday and 26 directed hours a week is not half bad by any measure!!
We tend to forget all the foreign holidays Teachers get - paid for by the Parents of the children they escort ...... Spain, Switzerland, France, USA ....... not only that - the Teachers also take their partners with them to 'assist' in the childcare!! What a farce!!!
It's simply because Teachers bleet and moan and blub and look for sympathy that makes my blood boil .................. let them lap it up, but they should stay very, very quiet!!!
17 January 2011, 11:45 AM
#102
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I never said that Civil Servants don't get a bum deal .... I think they do!! An Engineer in the Civil Service has an equivalent in outside industry to be compared to.
Teachers do not have an equivalent outside the comfort zone which is Education .... and therefore we cannot compare like for like - but, an average pay of £46,000 a year with 60 days holiday and 26 directed hours a week is not half bad by any measure!!
We tend to forget all the foreign holidays Teachers get - paid for by the Parents of the children they escort ...... Spain, Switzerland, France, USA ....... not only that - the Teachers also take their partners with them to 'assist' in the childcare!! What a farce!!!
It's simply because Teachers bleet and moan and blub and look for sympathy that makes my blood boil .................. let them lap it up, but they should stay very, very quiet!!!
Teachers do not have an equivalent outside the comfort zone which is Education .... and therefore we cannot compare like for like - but, an average pay of £46,000 a year with 60 days holiday and 26 directed hours a week is not half bad by any measure!!
We tend to forget all the foreign holidays Teachers get - paid for by the Parents of the children they escort ...... Spain, Switzerland, France, USA ....... not only that - the Teachers also take their partners with them to 'assist' in the childcare!! What a farce!!!
It's simply because Teachers bleet and moan and blub and look for sympathy that makes my blood boil .................. let them lap it up, but they should stay very, very quiet!!!
Les
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