Nutt on drugs classification - alcohol worse than heroin
02 November 2010, 12:26 PM
#61
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you mean that you can't get hooked on one dose of crack. Well I would not know since I have never been silly enough to try it. I do remember official advice being that it can hook you immediately.
We are as usual seeing that heavy drinkers will say that alcohol is not that dangerous and similarly, drug users will say just the same, ie that they don't agree that there is a problem as far as they are concerned. I think that is the real danger, they cannot see the damage that is actually being done to their bodies and will eventually destroy them in later life. Is that really worth it?
I like a drink in moderation but would not go over the top, nothing heroic in that to my mind. I was well and truly hooked on cigarettes and it was hard to ditch them. I can only hope that it does not get me in the end! Luckily because I prefer to remain in control of my brain I have managed to avoid anything to do with the other drugs and certainly don't intend to start. i don't need to be on an induced high to enjoy my life, I am happy enough with my lot as it is, why should I become dependent on brain changing substances and screw up my future? just seems daft to me!
Les
We are as usual seeing that heavy drinkers will say that alcohol is not that dangerous and similarly, drug users will say just the same, ie that they don't agree that there is a problem as far as they are concerned. I think that is the real danger, they cannot see the damage that is actually being done to their bodies and will eventually destroy them in later life. Is that really worth it?
I like a drink in moderation but would not go over the top, nothing heroic in that to my mind. I was well and truly hooked on cigarettes and it was hard to ditch them. I can only hope that it does not get me in the end! Luckily because I prefer to remain in control of my brain I have managed to avoid anything to do with the other drugs and certainly don't intend to start. i don't need to be on an induced high to enjoy my life, I am happy enough with my lot as it is, why should I become dependent on brain changing substances and screw up my future? just seems daft to me!
Les
02 November 2010, 12:34 PM
#62
Two very different 'drugs' B2Z, with different paths to addiction. But the effects have the same out come, should you choose to abuse them.
02 November 2010, 12:53 PM
#63
Guest
Posts: n/a
Well no because the heroin addict is going back for more because of the physical addiction and craving, not because it is fun. Someone choosing to get pissed is doing it because they want to not because they physically have to.
You can get pissed and not become an alcoholic, you take heroin and if not addicted immediately you will be after the 2nd or 3rd time. That to me makes them very different drugs indeed and miles apart in how addictive they are.
You can get pissed and not become an alcoholic, you take heroin and if not addicted immediately you will be after the 2nd or 3rd time. That to me makes them very different drugs indeed and miles apart in how addictive they are.
02 November 2010, 12:56 PM
#64
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central Scotland
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So, going back for some more alcohol because you find it fun, is not the same as, going back to get more smack because you find it fun?? Horses for courses.
Two very different 'drugs' B2Z, with different paths to addiction. But the effects have the same out come, should you choose to abuse them.
Two very different 'drugs' B2Z, with different paths to addiction. But the effects have the same out come, should you choose to abuse them.
Did you watch the programme last night by the way?
5t.
02 November 2010, 01:57 PM
#65
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: riding the crest of a wave ...
Posts: 46,493
Likes: 0
Received 13 Likes
on
12 Posts
Alcoholism has more of a mental side to it as far as i can see - maybe as much because its a weaker drug , on average anyway
Real alcoholics of course will do their best never to be sober , which doesnt take much (and is far safer/cheaper than sourcing heroin )
Both will fitt tho if they dont get their fix..
Real alcoholics of course will do their best never to be sober , which doesnt take much (and is far safer/cheaper than sourcing heroin )
Both will fitt tho if they dont get their fix..
02 November 2010, 02:18 PM
#66
Well no because the heroin addict is going back for more because of the physical addiction and craving, not because it is fun. Someone choosing to get pissed is doing it because they want to not because they physically have to.
You can get pissed and not become an alcoholic, you take heroin and if not addicted immediately you will be after the 2nd or 3rd time. That to me makes them very different drugs indeed and miles apart in how addictive they are.
You can get pissed and not become an alcoholic, you take heroin and if not addicted immediately you will be after the 2nd or 3rd time. That to me makes them very different drugs indeed and miles apart in how addictive they are.
02 November 2010, 02:23 PM
#67
These kind of threads really annoy me
Things like Heroin, Meth etc etc should never be legal IMO
Things like cocaine, ecstacy, amphetamines, weed, I think yes
All I want to do is smoke a joint legally, is that so much to ask ?
Why is it socially acceptable for everyone to poison thereself with a pint at the end of the day but its illegal for me to sit infront of the telly smoking a wee bit of weed ?
It works so well in Amsterdam so why not here ?
Things like Heroin, Meth etc etc should never be legal IMO
Things like cocaine, ecstacy, amphetamines, weed, I think yes
All I want to do is smoke a joint legally, is that so much to ask ?
Why is it socially acceptable for everyone to poison thereself with a pint at the end of the day but its illegal for me to sit infront of the telly smoking a wee bit of weed ?
It works so well in Amsterdam so why not here ?
Last edited by stef_2010; 02 November 2010 at 02:27 PM.
02 November 2010, 02:23 PM
#68
You seem to be of the impression that 'all' alcohol users are 'users' and 'all' other drug 'users' are addicts. Not so, both contain both types of people, regardless long it took them to get addicted.
It is just that 'you' choose to ride out the 'cold turkey', no matter how **** you feel. A lesser willed person may turn to an early morning beer to see him through.
Heres one back
Yes i did watch it. Very predictable i thought.
Last edited by Glowplug; 02 November 2010 at 02:37 PM.
02 November 2010, 02:31 PM
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
The problem is B2Z that you are talking about two different groups of people. Users, Joe gets p1ssed and/or chases the dragon at the weekend with a few mates and goes back to work on Monday. Addicts, Fred cannot function without his 2 ltrs of cider or his mainline hit for breakfast and sits in his **** ole day after day waiting for his next hit.
02 November 2010, 02:39 PM
#70
02 November 2010, 02:58 PM
#72
That is only one city in Europe, a tourist attraction. Therefor, earning the city £££££££££££ in revenue, again, TAX. And believe me, it is very tightly controlled. It could never work so well, say nation or world wide.
02 November 2010, 03:22 PM
#75
I've witnessed it yes
This is because, why. Is that what you and your circle consider to be acceptable in society and you use them on recreational basis, or do you have other reasons?
Its just from what I've witnessed and experienced myself.
A majority of the harder drug users dont fit into 'society' they have no self respect for thereself or others
I'm sure that if you do just that, and don't start sitting in the street dealing, then plod will not be using the enforcer on your front door.
But if I'm returning homewith it in my pocket thats a different story, drug marker on my name, searched everytime they stop me, treated as a drug dealer
That is only one city in Europe, a tourist attraction. Therefor, earning the city £££££££££££ in revenue, again, TAX. And believe me, it is very tightly controlled. It could never work so well, say nation or world wide.
I know I'm a regular visitor
Its just from what I've witnessed and experienced myself.
A majority of the harder drug users dont fit into 'society' they have no self respect for thereself or others
I'm sure that if you do just that, and don't start sitting in the street dealing, then plod will not be using the enforcer on your front door.
But if I'm returning homewith it in my pocket thats a different story, drug marker on my name, searched everytime they stop me, treated as a drug dealer
That is only one city in Europe, a tourist attraction. Therefor, earning the city £££££££££££ in revenue, again, TAX. And believe me, it is very tightly controlled. It could never work so well, say nation or world wide.
I know I'm a regular visitor
02 November 2010, 03:28 PM
#76
That said, i am at the moment taking 300mg of medicinal heroin/opium a day for pain relief. I ran out a few weeks ago and did experience some of the physical withdrawal effects, flu like symtoms, insomnia and the squits. Not nice. But my doctor and my experience assures me that this can be over come with the proper detox program. I don't get a buzz from them anymore (i use to when i first started them), if i where to abuse them, or be 'psycologically' addicted then i am sure i could be ****'d up all day long. And for free to boot.
Like i keep saying, it is down to the persons state of mind more that the 'drug'.
02 November 2010, 04:14 PM
#77
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central Scotland
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE=b13bat;9689973]The problem is B2Z that you are talking about two different groups of people. Users, Joe gets p1ssed and/or chases the dragon at the weekend with a few mates and goes back to work on Monday. Addicts, Fred cannot function without his 2 ltrs of cider or his mainline hit for breakfast and sits in his **** ole day after day waiting for his next hit.
You seem to be of the impression that 'all' alcohol users are 'users' and 'all' other drug 'users' are addicts. Not so, both contain both types of people, regardless long it took them to get addicted.
Just for reference you went first so if you don't like it, don't dish it out. Understood? I was replying to someone else anyway.
Next. Your point it technically correct. However, the clear issue that everyone else can see is that very few people who 'use' alcohol are addicts and very few of those will go on to be so. Also I think you will struggle to find anyone who has had half a lager and gone back for more because they needed it to get over the effects.
You can't say the same for smack heads. the fact is the number of recreational users is minimal. Those who are recreational users initially will almost certainly end up with a serious addiction both physical and psychological.
The point in made in the post you so graciously quoted was that someone, a regular user, stated for the nation that the first hit took them back for more and they'd had a serious habit/life of crime since then.
You, who admits they haven't ever tried it due to being worried about the effects, are dismissing what is known as a 1st person account of addiction to say its all ok and a bit of recreational smack doesn't hurt. I and I think the sensible majority of the nation respectfully disagree.
5t.
You seem to be of the impression that 'all' alcohol users are 'users' and 'all' other drug 'users' are addicts. Not so, both contain both types of people, regardless long it took them to get addicted.
Just for reference you went first
so if you don't like it, don't dish it out. Understood? I was replying to someone else anyway.Next. Your point it technically correct. However, the clear issue that everyone else can see is that very few people who 'use' alcohol are addicts and very few of those will go on to be so. Also I think you will struggle to find anyone who has had half a lager and gone back for more because they needed it to get over the effects.
You can't say the same for smack heads. the fact is the number of recreational users is minimal. Those who are recreational users initially will almost certainly end up with a serious addiction both physical and psychological.
The point in made in the post you so graciously quoted was that someone, a regular user, stated for the nation that the first hit took them back for more and they'd had a serious habit/life of crime since then.
You, who admits they haven't ever tried it due to being worried about the effects, are dismissing what is known as a 1st person account of addiction to say its all ok and a bit of recreational smack doesn't hurt. I and I think the sensible majority of the nation respectfully disagree.
5t.
02 November 2010, 05:07 PM
#78
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Frankly alcohol, heroin, crystal meth, and crack all cause serious problems and in reality they should all be illegal. I can well believe that Alcohol is more dangerous to society as a whole than cocaine, Ecstacy, weed, methadrone,, benzo fury 5IAI, MDAI, Dimethocaine, NRG1 NRG2 and Kryptonite. The hugely increaseing list of drugs available does indicate a serious problem with our society and perhaps understanding why the UK loves drugs so much as a nation will be a better way to deal witht he problems than argue about which drug is the worse for you.
If you want to do something good for society then go and pick some litter up from the street or something.
Maybe it's better that people drink than turn into religious fanatics?
02 November 2010, 05:42 PM
#79
[QUOTE=fivetide;9690129]
The problem is B2Z that you are talking about two different groups of people. Users, Joe gets p1ssed and/or chases the dragon at the weekend with a few mates and goes back to work on Monday. Addicts, Fred cannot function without his 2 ltrs of cider or his mainline hit for breakfast and sits in his **** ole day after day waiting for his next hit.
You seem to be of the impression that 'all' alcohol users are 'users' and 'all' other drug 'users' are addicts. Not so, both contain both types of people, regardless long it took them to get addicted.
The first was well deserved imo. And i can take as many animated emosicons you can post.
Thank **** for that, you understood at last. No body that 'uses' alcohol are addicts, correct. Only people that 'abuse' alcohol are addicts.
I think you will find that, EVERY single alcohol addict started with that half a lager. They, unlike you and i, either didn't want to stop or didn't know when to stop. Again, down to the individual.
Once again, confusing the two, abusers (smack heads) and users (recreational users). Example: I know a woman with a very responsible job/career, on her weekends off she likes nothing more than a hit after a good night out. It would be impossible for her to abuse as it would cost her her career. She often coins the phrase, you have to work to pay to play,
Once again. The experience and words words of a "smack addled prossie" (aka an addict) and i'm afraid as such, has little creadence. An addict will always justify their addiction/action, it is paet of being an addict.
You seem to be of the impression that 'all' alcohol users are 'users' and 'all' other drug 'users' are addicts. Not so, both contain both types of people, regardless long it took them to get addicted.
was well deserved imo. And i can take as many animated emosicons you can post.So now you are quoting the trusted and well respected words of a 'smack addled prossie'. Your words.
02 November 2010, 06:16 PM
#80
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
02 November 2010, 06:53 PM
#81
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central Scotland
Posts: 3,687
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_method
So now you are quoting the trusted and well respected words of a 'smack addled prossie'. Your words.
Yes pretty much, as i am also saying, a bit of recreational alcohol doesn't hurt. When in fact, a good skinful of ale at the weekend possibly does more physical damage than a hit of heroin. I think the sensible majority would agree, self control and moderation is the key.
Thank **** for that, you understood at last. No body that 'uses' alcohol are addicts, correct. Only people that 'abuse' alcohol are addicts.
Good example here:
Originally Posted by fivetide
You can't say the same for smack heads. the fact is the number of recreational users is minimal. Those who are recreational users initially will almost certainly end up with a serious addiction both physical and psychological.
You can't say the same for smack heads. the fact is the number of recreational users is minimal. Those who are recreational users initially will almost certainly end up with a serious addiction both physical and psychological.
Once again, confusing the two, abusers (smack heads) and users (recreational users). Example: I know a woman with a very responsible job/career, on her weekends off she likes nothing more than a hit after a good night out. It would be impossible for her to abuse as it would cost her her career. She often coins the phrase, you have to work to pay to play,
As i clearly diferentiated between the two but you not only failed to notice but also claimed i hadn't.
Why not go take some smack, or if you have kids give them some? Of course a sensible person like you should be able to provide a good time without any of the fall out right? You are that clever aren't you?
5t.
Last edited by fivetide; 02 November 2010 at 06:56 PM.
02 November 2010, 06:58 PM
#82
Yeah, supposedly good for you.
I would think, in terms of heroin, that would be classed as abuse. Then again, perhaps a single hit of an evening after a hard day, it depends on, what i keep banging on about, self control.
But that said, i am taking it daily (prescribed), and can rub along nicely with the rest of the world. It probably depends on the dosage and the required effects, i obviously do not take it recreationally, just for pain relief.
Irrelivent really, the thread is alcohol 'vs' heroin. Also i have no experience with the substance or it's users so could not possibaly comment. If i could have my time again, i would definitly give it a go though, especially with all the hype.
But that said, i am taking it daily (prescribed), and can rub along nicely with the rest of the world. It probably depends on the dosage and the required effects, i obviously do not take it recreationally, just for pain relief.
Irrelivent really, the thread is alcohol 'vs' heroin. Also i have no experience with the substance or it's users so could not possibaly comment. If i could have my time again, i would definitly give it a go though, especially with all the hype.
02 November 2010, 07:48 PM
#83
Er yes it is because that's the definition. "The closer a source is to the event which it purports to describe, the more one can trust it to give an accurate description of what really happened"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_method
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_method
Oh, and please do not insult me by quoting wiki at me.
I just don't see the point of of being nearly unconscious, i'd rather just goto bed. I don't like/enjoy the lethargy induced by my prescribed dose. I liked to be up, not down.
Which is all I said in the first place. Thanks for playing but i suggest you stop now. You are making yourself look a little bit silly.
Good example here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by fivetide
You can't say the same for smack heads. the fact is the number of recreational users is minimal. Those who are recreational users initially will almost certainly end up with a serious addiction both physical and psychological.
As i clearly diferentiated between the two but you not only failed to notice but also claimed i hadn't.
Good example here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by fivetide
You can't say the same for smack heads. the fact is the number of recreational users is minimal. Those who are recreational users initially will almost certainly end up with a serious addiction both physical and psychological.
As i clearly diferentiated between the two but you not only failed to notice but also claimed i hadn't.
Why would you suggest that i go give it to kids??
Why would you suggest that i am any less sensible than yourself??
Why would you syggest i am less intelligent than youself??
The answer, because the thread has extended beyond your intelllect and life experience. Therefor you revert to making obscure, offensive and down right silly comments.
I think my friend, unless you have anything constructive to add, to save your embarrassment you should take some of your own 'advise'.
03 November 2010, 05:00 PM
#86
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Les
03 November 2010, 05:04 PM
#87
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anyone my point was basically to counter Luan Pra bang moaning about alcohol and how UK society was so 'bad'. It's not like many officially dry societies are utopias is it?
03 November 2010, 05:40 PM
#88
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I have seen lots of people at or after a good party with no signs of catharsis whatsoever. Perhaps they are naturals at it!
OTOH as you say, I have also seen the odd religious freak several sheets to the wind too.
People decide for themselves what is their Utopia of course. There are so many ways.
Les
OTOH as you say, I have also seen the odd religious freak several sheets to the wind too.
People decide for themselves what is their Utopia of course. There are so many ways.
Les
03 November 2010, 05:46 PM
#89
Super Muppet
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Inside out
Posts: 33,364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
aaron_ions
General Technical
17
03 November 2021 11:07 AM