EBC Bluestuff v Pagid 4.2.1
16 March 2011, 09:45 PM
#38
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Thought I would add 2c to this thread. I just tried out a set of EBC blues on my 05 STi (Godspeed grooved disks). I did 200 miles on the road bedding them in and then 130 miles on Snetterton 300. The pads are finished. They are slightly better than DS2500's and a fair bit better than the Kevlar ones but really no good at all if you are an occasional amateur track day social driver like myself. They faded less than expected but ultimately just turned to cheese and flaked. All this in 8 degree weather, I think that in summer they will be horrendous. Next up I wil try Pagid RS-29, they are the most expensive at £300 odd / set but hopefully will make more than one track day per set.
16 March 2011, 10:45 PM
#39
Thats an interesting compromise........330 miles and there shot ????
So are EBC blues the dogs or not......
Id heard from a Time Attack competitor they were brilliant
So are EBC blues the dogs or not......
Id heard from a Time Attack competitor they were brilliant
16 March 2011, 11:27 PM
#40
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EBC bluestuff proved to be a very efective pad, very good from cold and fade free during fast road use, these were used with k-sport 8pots and 356mm rotors, a big
from me.
from me.
17 March 2011, 01:01 PM
#41
Hi All
Tried these pads in our Hatch demo last year at the 'Ring and they were excellent all rounders but..............
I'm sure you are all aware that these are strictly for track use and not approved for highway at all and for this reason that EBC are separating these into a RACE GROUP product.
If you were involved in an accident on a public road (and we hope not), you will be in deep water if it was found you were using this type of pad.
I know that none of us expect to be invloved in an accident but I lost a good friend of mine last weekend when he was invloved in a head on collison with another car. I'm sure the local Police will be investigating fully the vehicles invloved.
Just food for thought and we wont be selling these for road cars until approval is granted.
Glenn
Revolution
Tried these pads in our Hatch demo last year at the 'Ring and they were excellent all rounders but..............
I'm sure you are all aware that these are strictly for track use and not approved for highway at all and for this reason that EBC are separating these into a RACE GROUP product.
If you were involved in an accident on a public road (and we hope not), you will be in deep water if it was found you were using this type of pad.
I know that none of us expect to be invloved in an accident but I lost a good friend of mine last weekend when he was invloved in a head on collison with another car. I'm sure the local Police will be investigating fully the vehicles invloved.
Just food for thought and we wont be selling these for road cars until approval is granted.
Glenn
Revolution
17 March 2011, 01:09 PM
#42
Sorry to hear about your friend.
17 March 2011, 02:59 PM
#43
Just to clarify we are all talking about Blustuff "NDX", not Blustuff.
ps Im sure if the rozzers wanted to do us for something, in the event of accident, there would be a lot other issues we could all face rather than brake pad use: HID's; tinted windows; decat exhaust. ECU remap; alloy wheels; general modifications etc
ps Im sure if the rozzers wanted to do us for something, in the event of accident, there would be a lot other issues we could all face rather than brake pad use: HID's; tinted windows; decat exhaust. ECU remap; alloy wheels; general modifications etc
19 March 2011, 01:21 PM
#44
With respect then why are they not available at every ebc dealer?
Also 1st time i've been told I talk "a load of nonsense" for a long time and thanks for that.
As i said earlier, drove to the 'Ring and back and they were fine and exceeded my expectations so I know they work.
Plenty of people modify cars in different ways but tints, decats exhausts etc arent the what stop the car...discs and pads and thats the point I was trying to make as this is what the Police may look at.
Also 1st time i've been told I talk "a load of nonsense" for a long time and thanks for that.
As i said earlier, drove to the 'Ring and back and they were fine and exceeded my expectations so I know they work.
Plenty of people modify cars in different ways but tints, decats exhausts etc arent the what stop the car...discs and pads and thats the point I was trying to make as this is what the Police may look at.
20 March 2011, 03:59 PM
#45
That's not my business Glen. It's a more specialised product with limited production would be my guess. Maybe herein lies the problem why some (non NDX) EBC dealers seem to be scaremongering though. 
Feel free to correct me. What is the exact Police protocol with this then? How many people have been prosecuted?
Exceeded my expectations and many other people's too. The best fast road/track pad I've ever come across. Glad you're enjoying them. 
Please substantiate. Are you supposing the NDX would fail a MOT brake roller test or any Police braking test? The answer is no, and we both no that. The Police only care that the brakes work as they should do, not some stamp on the back that usually wipes off anyhow.
20 March 2011, 07:23 PM
#46
An insurance company may take a different view though.......they will get out of paying up for the slightest reason.
Brake pads which are not for road use would be an easy escape for them. Especially if the accident was down to braking distances etc.....
Brake pads which are not for road use would be an easy escape for them. Especially if the accident was down to braking distances etc.....
20 March 2011, 09:37 PM
#47
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Fine in theory, but I worked in motor insurance for 14 years and we never repudiated a claim on that basis (if the brakes were ineffective by roller that may well be a different matter).
21 March 2011, 05:05 PM
#48
Not sure how a car can go on the rollers for a brake test if its smashed up in an accident?
I've also no idea what the Police protocol is nor do I care but just thought i was just making a valid point for drivers to make their own assumptions.
Do you know the answer as to how many people have been prosecuted? - thought not, then why am I talking nonesense as I'm only giving my opinion?
Maybe a member of scoobynet who is in the Police Force could give us the answer that might clarify it for us all....
I was only making a point that the pads arent yet approved for road use not that they dont work as i already stated that i've used them previously and they were fine.
Didnt catch your name but its called a debate and NOT scaremongering - if you think I have the time to go onto forums to play those sort of antics then your deluded, and I'm not going to get drawn into an online argument with anyone either.
I'm sure there's a few officers on here regularly which could help to clarify this for everyone following the thread.
Lets get back to the topic and keep tittle tattle out of it please as we're all adults....
I've also no idea what the Police protocol is nor do I care but just thought i was just making a valid point for drivers to make their own assumptions.
Do you know the answer as to how many people have been prosecuted? - thought not, then why am I talking nonesense as I'm only giving my opinion?
Maybe a member of scoobynet who is in the Police Force could give us the answer that might clarify it for us all....
I was only making a point that the pads arent yet approved for road use not that they dont work as i already stated that i've used them previously and they were fine.
Didnt catch your name but its called a debate and NOT scaremongering - if you think I have the time to go onto forums to play those sort of antics then your deluded, and I'm not going to get drawn into an online argument with anyone either.
I'm sure there's a few officers on here regularly which could help to clarify this for everyone following the thread.
Lets get back to the topic and keep tittle tattle out of it please as we're all adults....
15 April 2011, 10:04 PM
#49
Just to clarify some points on here , a few have mentioned about the NDX pads being illegal which technically they are , REG90 was brought in by Brussels to regulate that all pads sold in Europe for road use must be + or - 15% performance of a standard factory fitted pad , any pad that is 15% better than a standard pad is therefore technically illegal , so Mintex M1155 , Ferodo DS2500 , Performance Friction , Pagid blues , NDX ect ect are all technically illegal to use on European roads.
But this then only stands for cars made after 1999 , and also only applies if you have the original factory fitted calipers fitted , so if you fit Brembo's on a WRX , or AP calipers , or Prodrive Alcons , K sports ect ect , then you are not then technically illegal.
What is the point in bringing out a regulation , that doesn't cover everything !
What the ruling should have been , was to bring in a minimum standard of pad so that they worked no worse than 15% of a standard pad , and left the upper limit alone.
I can't see anyone ever being prosecuted for it , if it did bother you , get a cloth with white spirits on , and the wording will come off the back of pads , and you wouldn't be able to tell what they are after they have weathered.
But this then only stands for cars made after 1999 , and also only applies if you have the original factory fitted calipers fitted , so if you fit Brembo's on a WRX , or AP calipers , or Prodrive Alcons , K sports ect ect , then you are not then technically illegal.
What is the point in bringing out a regulation , that doesn't cover everything !
What the ruling should have been , was to bring in a minimum standard of pad so that they worked no worse than 15% of a standard pad , and left the upper limit alone.
I can't see anyone ever being prosecuted for it , if it did bother you , get a cloth with white spirits on , and the wording will come off the back of pads , and you wouldn't be able to tell what they are after they have weathered.
23 April 2011, 08:02 PM
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Hi Guys
Had one guy in touch with me this week saying he has judder in track use of Blues, not on EBC discs but its not a disc quality issue anyway.
I tried to answer this chap but he doesnt want to listen so here is the answer to anyone having judder on track use of ANY brand of pads.
1) Hub runout is most likely cause, even if your old set up ran good, new discs may not line up and seat the same and 0.004 inches runout will cause judder and steering wheel shake. You can try rotating the discs on bolt hole and run again but the best way is to dial gauge the discs and if you have runout get them pro Cut skimmed. Shown on our website on this link.
http://www.ebcbrakes.com/automotive/pro_cut_lathe.shtml
2) Caliper sticking is number 2. We run the four pot scooby discs and calipers on our test rig and find that after about two weeks dyno work the caliper seals harden and start to drag. That is a year or so worth of hard driving but at that point, caliper drag will cause temps to shoot up under track use hundreds of degrees and the judder will set in
EBC can do service exchange calipers, any of our online sellers can handle that job for you and they will be like new with new pistons seals and pressure tested jobs.
There can be more complicated reasons for judder but these need a good photo shot of the discs to comment on, basically a crystalline structure change and some of the cast iron elements surfacing, doesnt happen often but of the first two things dont fix it, these are where we would check
Cheers guys
Had one guy in touch with me this week saying he has judder in track use of Blues, not on EBC discs but its not a disc quality issue anyway.
I tried to answer this chap but he doesnt want to listen so here is the answer to anyone having judder on track use of ANY brand of pads.
1) Hub runout is most likely cause, even if your old set up ran good, new discs may not line up and seat the same and 0.004 inches runout will cause judder and steering wheel shake. You can try rotating the discs on bolt hole and run again but the best way is to dial gauge the discs and if you have runout get them pro Cut skimmed. Shown on our website on this link.
http://www.ebcbrakes.com/automotive/pro_cut_lathe.shtml
2) Caliper sticking is number 2. We run the four pot scooby discs and calipers on our test rig and find that after about two weeks dyno work the caliper seals harden and start to drag. That is a year or so worth of hard driving but at that point, caliper drag will cause temps to shoot up under track use hundreds of degrees and the judder will set in
EBC can do service exchange calipers, any of our online sellers can handle that job for you and they will be like new with new pistons seals and pressure tested jobs.
There can be more complicated reasons for judder but these need a good photo shot of the discs to comment on, basically a crystalline structure change and some of the cast iron elements surfacing, doesnt happen often but of the first two things dont fix it, these are where we would check
Cheers guys
23 April 2011, 09:53 PM
#51
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I am the chap in question
I did listen, but your arrogance & attitude that came about when I said I was also talking to others to get my problem resolved, was nothing short of abhorrent.
I don't want to overtake this thread with vitriol towards you, when I was just trying to get an issue resolved, but suffice to say, I can post up your comments on here for all to see if you want them all to know what kind of a business man you are.
I don't want to overtake this thread with vitriol towards you, when I was just trying to get an issue resolved, but suffice to say, I can post up your comments on here for all to see if you want them all to know what kind of a business man you are.
Last edited by I-am-Cos; 23 April 2011 at 09:58 PM.
25 April 2011, 10:33 AM
#54
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EBC Bluestuff continues to impress
Yes I was having a bad day I suppose and have apologised to Paul who is all cool now and we gave a plan to find out his problem and will report back here in due time
I am an engineer and not a salesman so accepting my failures there
I have re programmed my brain
Please don't have a field day on me Dynamix you don't know the story
Bluestuff still selling well and sales doubling each week. Great news is we have passed the ECE R 90 tests on a bunch of models as the cold friction fell within limits and the high temp friction which is where this material really shines is NOT part of the test
Getting into more serious end of the Market we are learning all the time here at EBC and won't fail
Long live British Manufacturing
We are well on with our new factory at Northampton also
It is MASSIVE
More British jobs three new apprentices hired and sales 37% up si far this year
Cheers to all
I am an engineer and not a salesman so accepting my failures there
I have re programmed my brain
Please don't have a field day on me Dynamix you don't know the story
Bluestuff still selling well and sales doubling each week. Great news is we have passed the ECE R 90 tests on a bunch of models as the cold friction fell within limits and the high temp friction which is where this material really shines is NOT part of the test
Getting into more serious end of the Market we are learning all the time here at EBC and won't fail
Long live British Manufacturing
We are well on with our new factory at Northampton also
It is MASSIVE
More British jobs three new apprentices hired and sales 37% up si far this year
Cheers to all
25 April 2011, 11:52 AM
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Yes I was having a bad day I suppose and have apologised to Paul who is all cool now and we gave a plan to find out his problem and will report back here in due time
I am an engineer and not a salesman so accepting my failures there
I have re programmed my brain
Please don't have a field day on me Dynamix you don't know the story
Bluestuff still selling well and sales doubling each week. Great news is we have passed the ECE R 90 tests on a bunch of models as the cold friction fell within limits and the high temp friction which is where this material really shines is NOT part of the test
Getting into more serious end of the Market we are learning all the time here at EBC and won't fail
Long live British Manufacturing
We are well on with our new factory at Northampton also
It is MASSIVE
More British jobs three new apprentices hired and sales 37% up si far this year
Cheers to all
I am an engineer and not a salesman so accepting my failures there
I have re programmed my brain
Please don't have a field day on me Dynamix you don't know the story
Bluestuff still selling well and sales doubling each week. Great news is we have passed the ECE R 90 tests on a bunch of models as the cold friction fell within limits and the high temp friction which is where this material really shines is NOT part of the test
Getting into more serious end of the Market we are learning all the time here at EBC and won't fail
Long live British Manufacturing
We are well on with our new factory at Northampton also
It is MASSIVE
More British jobs three new apprentices hired and sales 37% up si far this year
Cheers to all
As you know from this thread, I have the suberb NDX Bluestuff on my modded 2001 WRX. The Scoob I just bought has Yellowstuff pads and EBC cross drilled discs, again a very good set up and coping well with a fair bit of performance (the Yellowstuff need a bit more warming up than the NDX, but are still excellent).
If all that also involves some much needed British manufacturing, all the better! So the pads are manufactured in Northampton?
AndytJ
25 April 2011, 02:12 PM
#56
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Cheers Andy
The new Northampton plant manufactures steel backing plates which we have always made for all our motorcycle brakes and ate now expanding this to make auto plates so I don't have to wait a couple of years for European plate suppliers to wake up when new models come out
Npton will also expand rotor production to over double
EBC disc pads are made in Bristol
That is also our own factory
Five divisions to EBC now
Let me know when you need to upgrade to Blues on the new car as although we do not sell direct your feedback has been very helpful ind developing blue and I will do you a special deal
Thanks
The new Northampton plant manufactures steel backing plates which we have always made for all our motorcycle brakes and ate now expanding this to make auto plates so I don't have to wait a couple of years for European plate suppliers to wake up when new models come out
Npton will also expand rotor production to over double
EBC disc pads are made in Bristol
That is also our own factory
Five divisions to EBC now
Let me know when you need to upgrade to Blues on the new car as although we do not sell direct your feedback has been very helpful ind developing blue and I will do you a special deal
Thanks
25 April 2011, 02:42 PM
#57
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Cheers Andy
The new Northampton plant manufactures steel backing plates which we have always made for all our motorcycle brakes and ate now expanding this to make auto plates so I don't have to wait a couple of years for European plate suppliers to wake up when new models come out
Npton will also expand rotor production to over double
EBC disc pads are made in Bristol
That is also our own factory
Five divisions to EBC now
Let me know when you need to upgrade to Blues on the new car as although we do not sell direct your feedback has been very helpful ind developing blue and I will do you a special deal
Thanks
The new Northampton plant manufactures steel backing plates which we have always made for all our motorcycle brakes and ate now expanding this to make auto plates so I don't have to wait a couple of years for European plate suppliers to wake up when new models come out
Npton will also expand rotor production to over double
EBC disc pads are made in Bristol
That is also our own factory
Five divisions to EBC now
Let me know when you need to upgrade to Blues on the new car as although we do not sell direct your feedback has been very helpful ind developing blue and I will do you a special deal
Thanks
25 April 2011, 09:03 PM
#58
Andy - any feedback on the pad material suitability for track use on wrx calipers as it just seemed really weird that all 3 guys/girls that were using Blue Stuff pads on that track day all suffered extreme juddering issues normally as a result of overheat of pad material and depositing the binding agent onto the discs from my understanding.
I do know the whole story, but that isnt the point here. It does seem that the Blue Stuff work reasonably well on the road and also on the track in suitable set ups such as KSports but perhaps on the OE calipers it does seem heat is a major issue for the pads.
I do know the whole story, but that isnt the point here. It does seem that the Blue Stuff work reasonably well on the road and also on the track in suitable set ups such as KSports but perhaps on the OE calipers it does seem heat is a major issue for the pads.
25 April 2011, 11:49 PM
#59
I'm after an opinion of upgrading standard pads to the new bluestuff NDX on my RB5, I wasn't really considering them as a choice due to the race nature of the pad, but I've heard varying reports that from cold they're actually better than red/yellow stuff compounds?
I'd say I'm a spirited driver, 100% road at the moment but looking into trackdays, and haven't experienced any significant fade on standard pads so far, but the brakes really aren't very confidence inspiring, lacking bite and feel. Pedal isn't spongy, so can only put it down to pads...
Would be glad of any opinions, though I appreciate this may be a bit off topic...
I'd say I'm a spirited driver, 100% road at the moment but looking into trackdays, and haven't experienced any significant fade on standard pads so far, but the brakes really aren't very confidence inspiring, lacking bite and feel. Pedal isn't spongy, so can only put it down to pads...
Would be glad of any opinions, though I appreciate this may be a bit off topic...
26 April 2011, 12:35 AM
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I'm after an opinion of upgrading standard pads to the new bluestuff NDX on my RB5, I wasn't really considering them as a choice due to the race nature of the pad, but I've heard varying reports that from cold they're actually better than red/yellow stuff compounds?
I'd say I'm a spirited driver, 100% road at the moment but looking into trackdays, and haven't experienced any significant fade on standard pads so far, but the brakes really aren't very confidence inspiring, lacking bite and feel. Pedal isn't spongy, so can only put it down to pads...
Would be glad of any opinions, though I appreciate this may be a bit off topic...
I'd say I'm a spirited driver, 100% road at the moment but looking into trackdays, and haven't experienced any significant fade on standard pads so far, but the brakes really aren't very confidence inspiring, lacking bite and feel. Pedal isn't spongy, so can only put it down to pads...
Would be glad of any opinions, though I appreciate this may be a bit off topic...
Hi mate - see post 1 re road use.