Piston Rings

I agree that the dealers are not to blame and indeed most of them try their best to get their hatch customers back on the road and should be praised but even them seem fustrated at the response from above their heads and the customer care team in the IM group. When we lived the subaru dream and had a good friendship built up with our dealers over the years its was a cruel blow to see the way our trust in subaru warranty was put to the test and only a small number of owners got back on the road without having to part with a [ hatch full of money ] and not being accused of driving to the limit in every gear. Where will subaru get sales when their loyal customers are feeling ripped off...

SRSport

Subaru had a wonderful niche market that they decided to give up. Their greed in wanting a slice of the mass market pie has backfired spectacularly. They have not ended up with anything of significance from the Focus, Megan, Astra etc market and lost all their loyal enthusiast customers. It is such a shame as I had a sense of owning something a bit special with my Impreza. I wouldnt have that now with the current range and the service associated with them. So sad.

Hopper

I agree with the sentiments of Piston Rings and others. I had a very bad experience with the importers and as far as I can see I was completely blameless. It cost me shedloads of dosh to get a new crank etc and this was just 200 miles after the car had received a full service from a main dealer.
I still have the car, but it won't ever see the inside of a Subaru dealership again so long as I have it.
I even wrote to Japan about my feelings, but was simply referred back to IM who stonewalled throughout.
I finally gave up, but having owned two Imprezas, vowed it would be my last.

honeybadger

well said. i don't really see subaru as a company going forward. and the charge INSANE prices for their cars here in SA, even though they don't make sales really.

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

On the contrary, we have done far more 2.5 Hawks for ring land failure than hatches. It is ' always ' pistons 2 & 4 that fracture. No obvious reason why those, so I guess it must be in the way that the cylinders are fuelled.

We also see a fair number of:
oil pick up pipe failure
Cracked turbo exhaust housings
Head gaskets

Of course Hatches have only just come out of warranty, so the data is skewed as far as an independent like us is concerned. Once the Hatches are away from warranty [ the few we have done are where IM have refused a claim ] expect we'll see rather more.

David APi

PS

Forged pistons
Hatch head gaskets
and a set of 11 mm studs to clamp the heads properly fixes them every time.

Littleted

Dave could you PM me what the cost of doing such a job would be, im nearing the 3 year mark on my saloon, and im either going to trade it in or have it strengthened so I don't have a massive bill should it blow out of warranty.
Just how much all in to make it good, thanks

Its one of the first 2010s with 28k on the clock running the 320R map

Ted

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Done and sent.

scooby1929

iTrader: (1)

Do you think on my hawk 2.5 WRX having it remapped like I did with JDM will have helped the situation especially as APIDavid suggests its possibly the way the cylinders are fuelled??

honeybadger

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

All the cars we have seen for ' the problem ' have been STi. So I cannot comment about what , how and why .

Maybe the answer is to buy WRX's.

David

Littleted

yeah its weird cos they didn't have any WRX-S models go pop, but I think these had smaller turbos and maybe other differences,

mickp

iTrader: (1)

That does surprise me David but if that is what you see then i cannot argue. I have honestly not come across any Hawk owners who have suffered ringland failure. The opposite with the Hatch, i have chatted with many loyal owners who have become a statistic and moved onto something else (frightening numbers really) Are the cars always modified or do you see some standard examples ?

Littleted

Mick I think from the Hawk to the 2008 the ECU changed some new thing that Subaru didn't nail first time round, that and that initial Dodgy Map didn't help, so in essence an accident just waiting to Happen, That's what ive decided after trolling the forums to death.
I think you know that anyway, a lot of fingers pointed to them Pistons, which actually didn't help matters, and know that that the police get a forged build if they order proves something or other.

Also I bet Daves seen a lot of blown ones, and I bet the majority will be from keen enthusiasts, him being a modder most cars he gets will have been driven hard.

Its still Puzzles me why 2 and 4 go, this points to fueling but how what where ive no idea. weird one though.

Out of Interest did somebody mention a while ago the Radiator was cut down in size on the 2008, not being a techie, wouldn't that cause issues with heat, Heat and bad det would cause issues surely. more than if I had some mega cooling affair ?

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Most of the ones we have done have been Spec D Hawks sometimes with PPP, sometimes not. VERY FEW already modded, Enthusiastic drivers sure , but isn't that why you'd buy a Subaru? [ or why you used to ? ]

l recently had a long discussion with a guy looking to buy a nice Hawk STi. I told him what to look for and how to test and listen to it. Can't remember if it was a regular one or Spec D.

He bought it and passing by here, he brought it to show me and I agreed it was a nice car, with no obvious faults after a quick run around the block.

Within 6 weeks he was back with "the problem".............

Disappointed? yes he was.

Philosphical? yes he was.

We did the usual repair/upgrade that I have advised Ted about, the car is now perfect and doing exactly what he wanted. Just that he is rather lighter in the wallet.

David

MOTORS S GT

iTrader: (2)

I have to agree with David on the Hawkeye STI ring lands issue, i have seen more ringlands on them, usually at a higher mileage than the Hatch STI, but that said have had a Hawk with only 17,000 miles with ringland failure, 90% std unmolested cars, never had a WRX with the problem, but a couple of 2.5 Turbo Foresters have.

As already stated, forged pistons, Cosworth gaskets, ARP studs, & pinned liner locations, & your never likely to be troubled again.

SRSport

Can we not have a quote on a post so we can all see how much this costs? As posted before I am unlikely to buy a Subaru again but there is still a little flame there somewhere. Depending on the cost depends on how much that flame is fanned.

scooby1929

iTrader: (1)

Seems strange that the problem is with the STI and not the WRX. At last an advantage of the WRX

thenewgalaxy

Interesting David.

My Hawkeye STi PPP was a 2006 Hawkeye Spec D and that went pop at 38,000 miles in 2009, just out of warranty too. I drove the car reasonably hard from time to time but mainly did motorway miles. I suspected the issue to be down to poor use of fuel by the previous owner and lengthy visits between intervals (12000 miles).

I've heard lots of reasons. High revs, fuel running lean, heat from the turbo due to fuel lines being incorrectly placed, fundamental issues with the pistons... Whichever way it would seem daft that the engine was allowed to rev to 7k if the first problem is the case, why the engine isn't allowed to run a little richer of the second is the case, or why the fuel is allowed to travel like it is if that's true. If cast pistons is the problem why do they not fit forged as standard?!

Anyway, the car never felt quite right after its forged rebuild and I eventually sold it later.

Once bitten twice shy though, I now change the oil very regularly on my cars. My Blobeye got changes every 3k and I'm changing it every 2k on my Cosworth. It has forged pistons and uprated studs etc - I didn't buy it particularly for the piece of mind, I bought it for the overall package - but I remain hopeful that the problem has been cured for my current ride, otherwise I suspect it could get very expensive. If not then that's a shame because I did not buy this car to pootle about town at low revs.

Alan Jeffery

We took this piston out of a Hatch this week.





The usual broken ring land. We actually booked it in on the basis of a marginal head gasket seal, but on checking the ECU out we found evidence of knock activity. Sure enough, the broken piston was the culprit.
You couldn't actually hear it knocking at all.

We're fitting these now. The bore is fine, we're just going out to .25 and honing to fit.



Along with these, but using the Cosworth stopper head gasket.



Job's a jolly good one...

scoobysteve1983

i own a hatch sti ppp on an 09 plate and all this is a little worrying! is there a thread on how many have failed vs how many have not? i too would like to see a rough price quote for a forged rebuild, ie, i drop the car off, the work gets done then i pick it up. what sort of figure are we talking 3 - 4k???

Alan Jeffery

I know this sounds daft, but how much do you want to spend?
There's a difference of course between doing the minimum required and a labour of love

It's possible to get some forged pistons in there for a couple of thousand, but you're missing a fair bit.

This is the sort of quality £5000 full drive in drive out gets you.













Example is a Hawkeye, but you get the idea!

This includes Mahle pistons, H beam rods, ACL Race bearings. RCM oil pump and sump baffle, ARP head stud kit, Cosworth head gaskets, new cam belt, water pump etc. Fully balanced assembly. Fully overhauled heads. Genuine Subaru seals and supplementary gaskets. Bolts and bare metal brackets plated.
We use stress plates for boring and honing, ALL work carried out in our own machine shop.
The price includes the first oil and filter change after the first 50 miles of running in carried out by me personally.
We map and dyno in house using Ecutek Race Rom.

Alan Jeffery

PS that isn't a "demo" engine, ALL our engines have that standard of finish.

scoobysteve1983

engine ****!!!

turbo900

My failure was a 2.5 wrx hawk and piston was in same shape as Alans pics. I'm having issues just now though with knock from new engine when cold. It retards timing etc and runs rough as its now a forged piston short block. Car is running standard ecu and dealer is not happy to warrant it with a remap (which should be able to sort this). Catch 22 and i'm stuck with a rough car doing 16mpg

rob84

iTrader: (5)

did they machine the block to suit forged pistons or just throw a standard set in it and hope for the best.. Doesnt sound like it was done correct in my eyes

jazzyjembreaze

iTrader: (11)

Thin liners along with cast pistons dosnt help the EJ257
Engine runs very hot under load
Forged along with external cooking for a bigger smile

jazzyjembreaze

iTrader: (11)

^
Cooling

turbo900

Who knows mate, having hassle and engine builder (who is reputable in the buisness although mayb not subaru) is coming to listen/check car on saturday along with dealer when its cold. Its fine once warmed but over a few days of running the performance drops of and it starts to run terribly. Not a good first foray into subaru ownership
All local experts say this is normal on forged pistons until hot and a remap will sort this out but dealer is not keen.

jazzyjembreaze

iTrader: (11)

Sry missed ur post
I was ref 2 the EJ257 as a whole
Your compression will have changed m8
I don't understand your quote on dealer mapping
Who built the engine ? Run inn map ?

SRSport

Maybe the new 5 year warranty may help out future potential customer...except the STI owners...

New Subaru warranty