Yes I should have said more clearly that they are old enough to know the difference between right and wrong. You have a fair point.

As Paul said, they have not had much of a fair chance, but they must have realised that their acts on those other lads was basically wrong.

Les

 

Whilst that of course explains why they might have done as they did it does not excuse it. They should be sent away for a very long time. Min of 5yrs is no where near long enough Future murderers without a doubt.

TX.

 

How long did the two who abducted and actually murdered Jamie Bulger, after torturing him, go away for?

And what happened then?

 

Agreed, i doubt they will get released, i doubt they will ever be considered normal and safe to release into society. I hope the lads they attacked and thier families get the proper support and help they need because if anyone deserves it it is them.

 

I do doubt they did Les, if you consider thier daily diet of ****, 18+ slasher/horror movies and violence then maybe not. It is hard to imagine where their moral compass lies, likely not the same as 99.99% of other people. Allowing kids to watch stuff like this is just wrong, top it up with a violent alcoholic father and druggie for a mum.

My kids are 7 and 4, they watch Dora the Explorer, Spongebob and I Carly. Doctor Who is about as scarey as it gets and they only watch that with 'us parents'.

There are rubbish parents out there, some parents that just need some help and Social Services is supposed to be the net that catches this but it seems to have failed for whatever reason.

 

Again, lots of kids have violent junkie parents, the fact the social services keep them there is testament o this... they don't all turn into sadistic killers.

These people are like bacteria, they simply breed copies of themselves. Time to stop rewarding them and lock them up/sterilise junkies.

5t.

 

Er NO.

I'm sure this isn't a popular view on Scoobynet but they're KIDS. They were 10 and 11 years old when they did this. That's young, and in many countries they would be under the age of criminal responsibility.

Whatever agency decided not to take them away a long time ago from the scum that you could loosely call their parents have to take a large part of the blame. What do you expect they will turn out like when they're left to be brought up by people who let them watch ****, smoke etc etc

The best thing we can do now is help them, because quite frankly the damage done to them in their early lives is the fault of the services in Doncaster. They may be permanently broken, they may not. But the worst thing is to abandon them.

The parents however, well they're a different story. Some kind of public flogging followed by removal of the rest of their kids and sterilisation would be in order.

 

The damage done was by the parents, social services are complicit, if anyone should know better it should be the social services. You have to hope that those who made the poor decisions loose their jobs and thier cushy pensions as a result and do not just get moved elsewhere with a smack on the wrists.

As for the parents i completely agree, only this will be against their human rights, especially the sterilisation - sterilisation should be complusary for anyone over 18 with child abuse convictions anyway.

 

Yes I agree Paul, but they are old enough to know the difference between right and wrong and even with no education there is such a thing as natural law which would tel them that it is not right to behave in the shameful way that they did.

As I said before, the parents still must bear the maximum responsiblity for what happened and the law which prevents those boys' names from being published will hopefully not protect the parents from the retribution that they deserve.

Les

 

Les, without being unkind and i really mean that you are a world away from their reality.

They are ferral by the sounds of things, i will not keep repeating thier circumstances but imagine from an early age - violence on tv violence at home and sex/**** with drugs and booze avaliable. No suprises - but not a defence - they should know better it is whether they do/did.

 

Couldn't disagree more. That's typical of this country ... commit a violent act & they need help Both are damaged goods (kids personality is formed by 3yrs old so v difficult to alter after that) & need keeping away from the general public IMHO. Neither should lead a normal life ever again.

TX.

 

Well I have met youths like that Paul, so I am not as far as you might think from that situation. No need to repeat their circumstances, and yes their behaviour is directly attributable to the life thay had at their home.

I think you are arguing against me when my thoughts are the same as yours.

I said that they would have realised that what they were doing was wrong and against the law. Despite their upbringing or lack of it they are still culpable. They deserve to be punished in a manner that they do not enjoy.

The parents also need to be brought to task for their selfish and irresponsible attitude towards the two boys.

Is that so different to your thoughts?

Les

 

Youths Les, they where 9 & 10, not yooths, not looking for an argument as we are not far apart

 

What do you suggest, let society fail these kids TWICE???

They have committed a terrible crime and nobody is going to excuse that, but what are we supposed to do with children of this age, it's surely wrong to just simply pour all our scorn and then give up on them.

 

^^ They're screwed already, you'll never turn them in to good kids so don't waste your effort. They should suffer the consequences of their actions (as the harmed kids & parents of harmed kids will do forever more) rather than find an easy life via us taxpayers.

TX.

 

I live not far from Edlington about 5 miles away infact and whilst the area isn't the best of places the family only lived there for 3 weeks. They were from a place called Wheatley which is a proper sh*t hole. I actually lived in Wheatley for 3 years and ironically didnt get a single bit of trouble despite everyone knowing that I had a 450bhp Impreza in my garage lol

Cant comment on the family as I dont know of them but they were from part of Wheatley nick named Devils Island. It's a load of horrible grotty prefab houses that hold the worst that Doncaster has to offer. Its known for its population of smack heads and general low life no hopers.

Whilst Edlington isn't exactly the best of areas they've had a raw deal in all of this.

As for the family both the two boys and the mother and father should be put to death.

 

Don't know how old but they were a bit older than those two. Their sense of values was similar, and frightening!

Les

 

I get the feeling that this is oing to get worse, these kids are the next genersation of parents breeding at will and if the incentiveas of free housing and money are not reduced or removed then they will live off of the state and imaine what the kids of thier kids will be like?!*!

NL do not seem to have grasped this nettle, the odd sticking plaster or soundbite has not helped.

Camoron goes on about Broken Britian, he needs to get specific and deal with the broken bits and sections of society and not tar us all with the same brush. I am not broken, nor are my kids, who we work real hard at bringing up as decent people.

If the problems are left any longer then we will have an us and them britian, 'us' who live in gated communities patrolled by armed guards and have jobs, are employable and 'them' who do not...

The chav-scum family who Jennys' brother lives with - i dropped the mum and two kids back at the council house the other day, carrier bag on the step, i picked the bag up to help and out fell a set of drug dealers scales - they belong to her 14 y/o son!

 

If you cannot provide for your children you should not have them simple as that. We currently have the spawn of satan in my sons school, he has taught my son several swear words and is consatantly hitting other kids. His parents do not work, did not bother attending the nativity play (which this kid ruined) and use the time at he is at school to get p1ssed and smoke cannabis.
And this kid is only 4, imagine what he is going to be like as an adult.

 

How can you possibly know this???

 

^^ How do I know? I don't for certain just as you don't know that they'll ever get "better". I'd rather not expend further time & money on them though

It's all about where to exert some effort ... do you try to "improve" some kids who tried to murder some other kids or do you apply that effort somewhere else where it will make a difference? How about helping the victims instead

TX.

 

So you think we should have these children killed???

What would that say about our society.....

What does that say about YOU?? The same person who very recently stated that they 'weren't bothered' about the suffering of hundreds of thousands of people of Haiti, yet suddenly you are very interested in the suffering of the poor victims of this crime?

Helping the victims goes without saying, nobody ever said we should help the perpetrators INSTEAD!!

 

Cameron's remark about "broken Britain" needed to be said. You may not be "broken" Paul, but thare is a very large slice of society which is. Like the "chav-scum family you mentioned.

You are dead right about the future if the nettle is not grasped and there is a positive move back to the normality that we used to ecpect in this country.

I have mentioned before more than once that we are looking towards needing a 10 foot electrified fence around one's property in the future!

Its a question of attitudes and sense of values which are going the wrong way in so many cases now.

Les

 

How have you leapt to that conclusion from my posts Let them rot in a detention center then jail when they are old enough. I wouldn't even bother to release them.

TX.

 

"One murder is a tragedy, a 1000 is a statistic" ... I'm touched that you spend time researching other threads for my posts though.

TX.

 

I leapt to this conclusion because you said we shouldn't spend any 'taxpayers money' on them. How the hell do we keep them in a detention centre and then jail for the next 6 or 7 decades for free?

 

No research required, just a memory. When I read something as tragic as your comments on that thread, I'm not likely to forget

 

you stalking him?

 

No you'd get jealous