Thats 30k and IMO they earn every penny. Each officer thats out and about will deal with an average of 10 incidents a day. each rota has an average of 20 officers (nation wide) each force has an average of 5 areas to cover

When you work out how much work they do, and how many complaints they get I think its harsh for anyone to label all police as useless or inept.
Some are, thats the same in any line of work, Police officers have a harms way policy, that means that they HAVE to put themselves in harms way to save life or property.
Each day officers get seriously assaulted, Just because people on here have had a bad experience to undermine the work they do, the dangerous work they do is ill informed.

With the case of this two bit reality show star, when the officers were taking the statement they could have said one of two things when she told them she had waved a knife.
1, well done (this would have made the media and everyone would have been bending the rules to suit them claiming the police say its alright, eg, someone was looking at my car so I ran after them with a knife, and we all know it would happen.

2, You should'nt wave a knife at people (at the point before she had waved the knife no violence had been threatened by anyone, she had raised the stakes)

If you dont understand why the officer said it was not a good idea then I dont think this is a debate so much as another very boring, very repetitive SN "we hate the police" thread that is full of comments by the same old people taring ALL police with the same brush.

Whatever advice the officer gave this women it was going to hit the media. The responsible thing to say was dont wave a knife around.
He didnt say it was an offence to protect yourself in your own home. Infact there is an instant arming defence built into the charging standard with regards to cases like this.
Its no a secret defence and all police and all briefs and a lot of the public will know, or should have taken the time to inform themselves before commenting otherwise.

The police in this country are up against it all the time, Almost every job they deal with they can only satisfy 50% of the people involved. An ABH charge, Victim happy, offender not. Theft from shop charge, Shop happy offender not. 3 points for speeding, parents with kids that live around there happy, motorists not.
When you know at best you will only get a 50% rate of good will from almost all your work it would be nice to get support, I am sure the majority of people that read a little deeper than internet news pages or car forums will accept why the advice was given.

But let me ask you this, If you knew the law, knew this was going to go public, knew knife crime was a hot topic and knew that most stabbings in dwelling burglaries occur using the home owners knives what advice would you have given?

 

But how do you know what their intenetion was - ok it probably was bad, but where do you draw the line. If this had been day time, or they were marginally in the drive way, or it was a street house and they were standidng on the footpath looking in

 

Personally I'd have said the boys were in the wrong-lets be honest a house party is pretty easy to spot-what was the householders version of events?
cheers Richie
(ps in general I am a police supporter not knocker)

 

This, of course, depends entirely on the circumstances. If she genuinely feared for her own or the child's safety, then she was entitled to wave the knife, providing she could later satisfy a court (and not the police) that it was proportionate and necessary.

 

I don't know what planet you are on, or what you have been smoking, but i am fairly certain (even though i can't at this moment find any data to back this up) that 99.9% or more of the general public would not "quite happily s[t]ab someone", even if they were not actually looking for fluffy bunnies!

Even the "giftedly challenged" people in society would be unlikely to stab someone for no sensible reason - at least not in the circumstances that we are describing here (lads in yer garden).

Generally law abiding citizens do not stab other people at the drop of a hat - but i bet that a higher percentage of people who roam in other peoples gardens at night do!!

Unfortunately it seems as though the police don't appear to understand this

mb

 

Richie - so if that was your lad or relative who came home with a broken nose and two black eyes because he knocked on the wrong door - you would say to him "That's life"

 

So if she has to satisfy a court, then you are expecting her to have been arrested and charged.

 

But Boomer, it will happen and some innocent at some point will be knifed, hurt or mudered as a result. And then where do you all stand....

 

No - you're a police officer, surely I shouldn't have to explain the law regarding use of force to you?

 

felix you totally missed my point, yes i broke the law and fully excepted my punishment no mater how big or small, my point is how can someone stabbing someone and get lesser punishment than someone speeding???

even tho my friend did not press charges the state said they will still press charges???

 

Haha. This thread has been blown out of proportion.

The bottom line is that they were on PRIVATE PROPERTY and shouldn't of been there. End of!

 

Felix explained it well. As a result of your friend not pressing charges there isnt any evidence for the state to use against the step son. So no case.

When you were clocked speeding there was either photograph or video evidence to prove it (equivelent to your friend pressing charges) Results in you getting banned and fined. Not havin a go just how i understood it.

 

No I'd give him a good bollocking for disturbing someone at midnight and being so stupid as to be unable to spot a house party.
As I also said what was the story from the householder?-Were the boys banging on windows etc to try to get someone in the house to open the door or were these questions not asked by the attending officers?
Or was it seen as an open and shut 'easily solved' case with which to boost the arrest/conviction targets?
cheers richie

 

my point is the step son obviously did brake the law and just because the step dad did not press charges he still should of been punished thats where the laws a joke, you say just because the step dad did not press charges they could not do anything so say he died he could still not press charges but he would be tried for murder yes so what s the difference?????

as for my speeding there was no evidence, no pic no vid no vasca just my word against his, but i knew i had broken the law and excepted my punishment

my point being who commited the worst crime and who got the harsher punishment( and i'm not saying mine was harsh at all)

 

It was the police who brought the prosecution to court. Even though there was no evidence if step dad withdrew his account. The police still prosecute, when it goes to court, step son denies the offence and hence there is no evidence offered to argue agaist him. Hence innocent until proven guilty holds true and he walks free.


The evidence is the PC's account (and your admission) - in your case the court chose to believe the PC

 

The victim and his parents wanted to persue a complaint - so it had nothing to do with targets.

Lads knocked on the door 2-3 times (they were brought to the address by taxi - but were actually on the wrong road, number was right). They were told it was just a few friends back for a few drinks so weren't expecting loud music etc. Householder is very annoyed by being woken up by local youths banging on his door at all hours and decided tonight enough was enough. He opens the door to be confronted by 2 slightly drunken lads asking 'where's the party' Householder sees this as an escalation of his problems as they are now confronting him at his own door step and so punches them in the face and shout abuse at them.

So are you saying the lads are still in the wrong and got what they deserved. Would it have been ok for the housholder to pick up a knife on his way to the door.

 

Daryl - you say "....later satisfy a court". Hence to do this, she must be at court. And for her to be at court, she must have been arrested for something and later charged.

So are you now saying she sould have been arrested for this and taken before a court to decide if her response was "...proportionate and necessary..."

 

Felix it's good to see that as a Policeman you are making more of the victim waving a knife than you are of the ******* being in her garden uninvited. It's this typical dreadful attitude by the majority of today's coppers that's the reason for the rate of crime and general attitude of todays society.

It's like when you get your house broken into. The police put more effort into making sure the insurance claim is accurate than they do at catching the theives.

I'll state for the record if someone breaks into my house and I'm able to defend myself I'm bloody well going to. I will do whatever it takes to protect my family and my property. If I have to stab someone to do so then so be it but it will only be because I had to not just because I could.

I also believe that the law is being changed with regard to people breaking into your house.
If the law stated that you have every right to kill someone who was in your house without your permission then burglary of occupied houses would pretty much stop instantly. Who gives a toss about the rights of those who shouldnt be there? They waive those rights the second they come into my property without permission.

Give the people that commit these crimes a hard time not the people who are a victims of them!!!!

 

Not wrong, no, but more of a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time..... but saying that if I was going to a mates house at that time then I would probably know where he lives and if I was not sure then I would call on the mobile to make sure it is the right door before banging.

Did he pick up a knife? No. So completely irrelevant question.

 

oh yeah i totaly understand that and please don't think i'm trying to justify what i did, i'm just trying to get my head round how a boy who stabbed someone could walk from court with lesser punishment than someone speeding!!!

 

^^^^^ sorry don't know what happened there the bit in the middle is me not felix

 

so it was a bit of a **** up really, a bit like that fella with the irish accent who was shot dead by the police for carrying a table leg in a plastic bag that he had had renovated...............or charles de menezes, i believe the coppers got off with that didn't they? so get off your high horse pal, people have the right to defend themselves from perceived threats, mistakes are unusual. If the shed robbers were doing that in some states in america, they would have been shot dead by the owner, bunny hunting or not, as a result, shed robbing will be non existant knowing it's possibly the death penalty....in this country, it is a escorted ride to the station, and let go to possibly appear in court if the evidence isn't ****. so whats the deterrent?

 

America is by no means any better! Me and a mate were handcuffed because my mate had placed a can of beer on the ground! We just heard FREEZE!! they were ready to draw guns and everything, came straight up to us and put the cuffs on whilst explaining we had littered in Texas!!

My point being is it goes on everywhere, silly laws and some silly decisions made. Look up MIC and MIP laws in the states for under age drinking, its as bad as speed cameras for money making imo.

But if the law was as simple as "They're on my property, shoot them". You could effectively get a person inviting someone they want rid of on their property, shoot them and claim they were trespassing! Just a different angle to look at it from.

 

As I said in an earlier post - I would not have dealt with it in this way and the knife would not have been mentioned.

I'm not bothered about insurance claims - thats for the home owner.

If the law changes so that you could kill someone in your house, then expect burglars to go armed in future and hunt in packs

 

Did not know where his mate lived, knew him from college only. Did not call him on his mobile as he assumed the address was right and the taxi driver took him to the correct road.

The point with the knife is that the householder could state he felt threatened - and if the suggestion on this thread that you should be able to use what ever means you want, is accepted then he could have used it.



Look folks, I'm not trying to defend the ******* and I accept that they were there for committing a crime; I just don't believe its right to start arming ourselves with knives and using them to threaten people.

The police need to be boosted in numbers and the bureaucracy of our service needs to be changed so we are able to be where we are needed. At present we are fighting a losing battle. Last night we had 14 on our shift with a job queue of 102, all jobs with people wanting the police asap, and when we arrived they wanted our undivided attention for the foreseeable future to sort their problems out. Add onto that the 30 emergency calls and our own queues of ongoing jobs and it’s easy to see that we are stretched.

 

The police in this country are up against it all the time, Almost every job they deal with they can only satisfy 50% of the people involved. An ABH charge, Victim happy, offender not.


No **** sherlock



That little quote above shows what a bunch of w@nkers the police really are!

 

OK, here's a complaint i had.

Dealing with an incident where two school girls had been sesnding each other stupid messages on MSN. One got really upset and the parents wnated police action. My intial suggestion of turning the computer off and ignore her was not approved of by the IP. Burglary in progress comes in not far away, so I made my apologies and said i would return but i had to go. Scoolgirl and mum then made a complaint agaist me for not dealing with their job first

 

And another where nobody was happy

Taxi driver makes a complaint that a fare had assaulted him causing minor injuries (bruising, reddening). Manage to find the fare who also makes a complaint stating that it was the taxi driver who attacked him.

Therefore one word against another with no other evidence available (no cctv, witnesses etc) so the case never went anywhere – so both fare and driver were not happy with police.

 

Like this one...

Father stabbed to death in own home after confronting gang stealing his television | Mail Online