No, guess not. Think I'll stick with the "safe bet" and use the DR725...at least it's black, which will complement the stealth look I'm going for

 

Stripped out Pro Class car?

Pro Class, yes..... but it could of run in your class as I utilised nothing for the pro class, but that was my choice. I was running VPower, no anti-lag or launch control was used and neither did I use slicks.

As far as stripped out is concerned, it was and is full OE road trim. In fact it had a full ICE system installed as well. IIRC my car was by far the heaviest in the top 5 and that was even without SDB driving!

My car is pure road class.

 

No Shaun, you're pure "class"

 

I read this whole thread last night and found it very interesting. I had a couple of ideas. I wondered what would happen if you had a TMIC and were stuck at a traffic light for a while with your ACT rising, if you could turn on your heater or something like that to make a fan cut in and take heat away from the intercooler? Also, has someoen checked what happens to the ACT when driving a classic at say 80+ mph - does the ACT go up as the air gets deflected over the small bonnet scoop? This is a theory which I have seen put forward on other forums, that EJ20K (V3 and 4 STIs) engines tend to spin bearings after being driven at high revs in higher gears, ie at high speeds the air deflects over the scoop, the ACT goes up, detonation occurs and a bearing gets spun. The theory is that it happens in higher rather than lower gears due to the ACT going up as the speed goes up, but I don't think this has been tested. With an ACTgauge both of these scenarios could be investigated scientifically.
I happen to have a Version 4 JDM STI, and am wondering if just getting a hood scoop like the V7 STI one would work, see STi 7 Bonnet Scoop Impreza 97-00 Scooby Subaru Impreza Turbo Parts STi WRX Lancer EVO Manifolds Turbo Intercoolers - Flat4online.co.uk
[I find the bigger ones really ugly.] I agree with Harvey that his FMIC is fantastic value compared with the price of a hood scoop and getting it painted, but I want to change my car as little as possible as it works so excellently from the factory, and looks really good for its age. I also plan to get a Simtek and tune (stay VF24, stock inj, Walbro, catless DP) when I have a job again, and would be looking to get the absolute best throttle response possible out of that, since the nimbleness of the car is one of its greatest attributes relative to the bugeye WRX I had before, so I would prefer to stay TMIC.
Finally (sorry for rabbiting on) I believe the Simtek has a probe of its own which presumably is checking the ACT and compensating for it. Is that correct? Thanks for an interesting thread, Tom

 

You were going on alright then, 'til you mentioned that dirty word " Flat4online " do a search on here and the MR2 forum and the Lancer register, in fact even ask the checkout lady at Tesco. They will all have something to say about customer service from Flat 4.......

Harvey has let me have details of high road speed heat soak on top mounts data that he has collated over a period of time. You are right though, it is a self feeding problem. As the ACT rises, it creates in cylinder temperature rises, which cause det. Then in cylinder heat soaks through into the water core temp and the oil temp and the problem becomes exponential.

Exhaust gas temp rises too and all of a sudden it wll goes wrong.

The big scoop is certainly one way to get more air into a moving top mount. The problem is still not addressed though, for stand-still-time heat soak. Only a front mount can have any effect upon that. On a top mount that has been standing still for say 20-25 seconds the temperature will rise significantly. The next 1/4 - 1/2 mile will be the most dangerous you will ever drive.

Simtek are working on a heat-soak timing-reduction problem at the moment. The system as designed is set to pull timing when it detects intake air temp rising. So it does; regardless of whether you are on boost or not, which is not optimum. The problem arose when cars that have been sitting in a traffic jam suddenly lose tickover control because the system has yanked out 4 degrees [ or whatever ] of timing. Simtek is being reworked to only yank timing on boost and at other times ignore the heat soak.

In any Simtek set up we fit an air intake temperature monitor as close as possible to the throttle body, it's part of the kit.

That help you? David APi

 

David.

I'm going SD on my Denso ECU (I've got the Grp N ROM i'm working on with my own test mule) so won't need the MAF for air flow metering but i would still like to keep hold of it to use the IAT sensor. Is there any way of mounting the MAF sensor between a TMIC and throttle body, like on a blow through tube?? Is it doable??
Also...Do you stock a large diameter blow through tube, maybe 76mm-80mm?

Francis

 

Not enough room there Francis.

If you are just using it for measuring IAT on a speed density ecu then diameter isn't really relevant.

 

I appreciate the advice Duncan. I just wanted the pipe to match the intercooler and throttle body diameter.

There must be a way of doing it, maybe if i move the Intercooler back as far as it will go, modify the length of the throttle body inlet and intercooler outlet, it is hassle though, or finally bite the bullet and get a cough...cough...this is so painful.....FM cough.... IC... cough....cough!!

 

If you must soldier on with the TMIC then just buy an AIT sensor for retro fit - they just need a 6 or 8 mm hole for it to fit into on anything. We either drill the FMIC pipes or the face of the top mount as close as we can to the throttle body.

There is no logical reeason to use your old maf tube where you want to put it even if it did fit. [ Which it won't ]

David APi

 

I am amazed more people are not using water injection with their TMIC's, but then I suppose with the sat at the traffic light scenario even that doesnt help.

 

Water injection into the cylinder or water spray on the intercooler?

Water injection will involve a full kit and require mapping to be set up efficiently. It also would not effect inlet temps but rather reduces in cylinder temps.

Water spray has a very limited effect (if any). Personally, I think they are a gimmick. The best way to cool an intercooler with a spray is with something like to Cry02 kits from DEI.

 

I have W/M injection with an AVO tmic and it appears to work for me. My only concern is wether or not the TM is sapping power after a few runs but as I've posted before it always appears cold to touch. I'm trying to run some defintive tests on it if only the weather would allow. By and large I feel the dangers of heatsoak are overstated, certainly in the case of a Newage. If you are in traffic or traffic-lights then there are speedlimits all around anyway.
The W/M is an expensive bit of kit with install costs.
Trev

 

Thanks for your input David, i hear where you're coming from.

As for ACT's the only way to measure these accurately is with a sensor in the right place. Then you could do before and after comparisons for accuracy.

I have some head scratching to do and choices to make.

 

This thread has become very interesting over the last few days.

I'm going to push my top mount to the limit on my everyday driver next month. Got a ACT coming from Harvey so can keep an eye on temps (Thanks David for the static warning temps input).

The OEM tmic must be valid for a reason even if hot to touch. Otherwise Subaru would have done a Mitsubishi and fitted FMIC as standard?

Steve

 

whats the on the road prove of and evo and an sti?

question answered

 

an still intend to use them to the day

 

For minimal cost the heatsoak issue can be reduced to the point it is almost insignificant.

On my Spec C I have paid particular attention to wrapping the turbo exhaust housing and the uppipe/downpipes as they are by far the main contributors to intercooler heating when stationary.
You can use an expensive turbo blanket or, as I prefer, just use normal exhaust wrap folded over the turbo a few times and tucked in round the sides.

If I'm in town stuck at lights etc then before hitting the open road I just give a quick spray with the 50/50 water meth mix and its always cool to the touch.

Andy

 

Yeah, shocking decision. I'll swap you for a hybrid.

 

sorry mate I don't get what you're saying?

 

hey this thread has gone mad i only asked if anyone knew of

Browser Warning

of which i found in the end and all this has kicked off about intercoolers what a big can of worms this turned out to be lol what other cans could i open to keep you lot amused

 

Don't say sorry mate.

I've found out a lot of info from this thread to be honest. Nice to see some tuners and mappers taking the time to add some feedback too.

Even after reading all of this. I am still going to see what my car puts out not just pub talk numbers but as a quick car using the TMIC for everyday use.

I'm going to be running the stock internals with the TMIC. Suicide maybe but unless you try you don't know.

Can't wait to fit all my tricks and remap with JGM in the month.

Andy F, when you use say the 50/50 mix with meth have you upgraded the pipework at all? Is there any other addative that can be added to the stock IC bottle in the boot like Wetter Water that would help cooling?
I'm going to be running Meth on my next map with JGM but via the fuel tank with V-Power. Do you think it's worth it to add a drop to the IC tank too for cooling etc?

Mine is on manual IC spray button though so not boost operated.

Steve

 

The std pipework was fine, water wetter should help too but I have not tried it, just beware that water wetter is not nice on paintwork, it stains it.
The meth mix has a chilling effect as it evaporates, try spraying it on your hand.........brrr !

 

HEY ANDY .F , i have on my car an a.r.c. top mount on my 96 uk spec its the slanty type i havnt seen another one like this before i know there supposed to be better than a standard one but what would you say i could run bhp wise safely just a thought , i have been told that with the 440 inj upgrade and epexi i could run about 330 bhp ?? i have an hks filter, blitz full decat, td05 turbo top entry ,walbro fuel pump pfr7`s ported and wraped headers other than that engine is standard on my 7d standard ecu i get 267 bhp but i have an epexi ecu i want to fit what sort of figures could i aim for with these mods ?? cheers mate any info much appreciated

 

Into the inlet, waste of time onto the actual intercooler. Have to disagree that it has a very limited effect, I have run it on previous cars where I havnt been able to fit a big enough intercooler and got some good results. As for a re-map, you would need one anyway after fitting a new intercooler.

 

I don't think so. After all it was good enough for Harvey on his Sti wagon producing 585bhp.

 

My Perrin/Aquamist w/m injection is tapped into the underside of the tmic in front of the exit to the throttlebody so helps reduce further, air inlet charge.
I understand the closer the nozzle is placed to the inlet valves the more it's about supressing detonation.
Trev

 

The OEM tmic must be valid for a reason

It's called ergonomics

 

Steve, mapping the car on any mix of additives always brings problems. Unless you mix accurately EVERY TIME, you run the risk of the map being off. Especially if you are wringing the neck of the engine on the additive added map.

If you always put in 40 litres then the mix is easy, But the day that you can only get in 29.66 litres [ or whatever ] the calculation for the mix goes adrift and once you have lost control of the mix percentage you'll need to start again.

Bob Rawle used to run around with a 10 litres or so of methanol in his boot in jerry cans. Then put in a precise amount of fuel, a measured amount of meth and that worked well.

Do it any other way and you'll walk into a minefield.

David

Ethanol either Bio or Meth rots standard rubber fuel hoses, there's another problem.

 

David,

Thanks for the warning and input. Again nice to see a tuner adding to this.

I'm going to be changing the rubber lines on the rails for braided ones and carrying out parallel rails mod at the same time.

I wasn't sure myself about adding meth to be honest but after chatting to JGM and him knowing my car well he advised ditching the NF Booster for Meth.

I will be running 5ltrs ONLY. Yes I know pretty much not worth it , but if you think about it from my point of view how much I am making with a 100mls of NF on STi Pinks 5ltrs is a step forward.

After reading AndyF input with meth added to the IC spray bottle too I may take this option also to keep temps down.

Besides, what you worried about David. If it went **** up I'll get you to build me a 450/450 engine. lol

Steve

 

That's the point Steve, Not all braided hose is ethanol resistant and at stupid money per metre, don't buy the wrong stuff, just cos it's braided.

Ask the supplier.

David APi