Shaun

Cheers Micky..... not bad at the flywheel hey!

Might mean I can get a 13sec run down the 1/4 now. roflol

Steve,
Graphs from Zen are on the previous page incase you missed that last post.

I hope the tuition makes some difference..... I will find out in a few days. lol

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

How come you seem to have less torque now ????

Shaun

Not sure, as I had more torque on the latest engine than before (as per Zen Shootout) on Tracktives hub dyno. I seem to remember the torque at the hubs on Tracktives Hub dyno (high boost), was 465lbft as spec run at Zen Shootout day and then 512lbft after rebuild etc.

Who cares.

MartynJ

I'll lend you mine if you can't Shaun,

Shaun

I'm sure my car has the minerals to deliver, but I can't say the same for the "tool" between the peddles and the steering wheel.

mickywrx

iTrader: (29)

I'm not towing you!

mervil

iTrader: (5)

Excellent write up and figures Loving the stealth look too

Shaun

JUNE 2009 - Discussion of recent Flywheel Dyno Runs
Having discussed the recent flywheel dyno runs with Richard at Tracktive........

As I had originally suggested, the low boost bhp at the fly is as Richard expected. He explained that the reason why the high boost bhp was low, was because of the high ambient temps for the runs. Richard is running aggressive ignition compensation on my maps relating to charge temps, because of the high compression engine running on VPower.

We saw similar issues when Richard was mapping the car on the hub dyno, as the high boost power completed as part of the mapping showed 465bhp at the hubs (Charge temps had exceeded 40degs). Once the car cooled down, the final high boost runs achieved 486bhp.

The fact that the power/torque of the high boost run drop below the low boost power/torque at 7k on the Zen run's, backs this up.

Richard explained that he would be expecting up to 550bhp at the fly, on a cooler run that did not affect any of his ignition compensations. This is what I would expect, based on the hub to fly calculation.

All in all, the results are an eye opener for a standard fit turbo running on VPower.

Thanks to Tracktive for the build & mapping, and thanks to AET for supplying one hell of a turbo!

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

We will know if the heat affects things as mine will be on the rollers there soon Paul did say his rollers read low and if you were to go somewhere else our cars would make more. I should take mine to tractive to get my 600

ZEN Performance

It makes 550 when it makes 550!

MartynJ

LMAO, thats strange Paul, our dyno has the same problem

Shaun

Steve,
I have no idea what charge temp compensators you will have set in your map, as I am only stating what Richard has told me about the map he has done on my car and what affect a 31+deg ambient temp on that map, would have in his opinion. Remember, this was only a comparison run..... modification back to back testing has and will continue to be done on Tracktives Hub Dyno as the benchmark for this car.

Everyone has an opinion of things, but I just thought it worthwhile to explain what was explained to me, which in all honesty seems fairly sensible.... especially when I experienced first hand what differences were made when the charge temps had been decreased during the Tracktive Hub Dyno runs, and how the increased charge temps had a direct impact on the maps compensators (which is what Richard had made allowance for, because of the higher compression and fuel type used).

Like I said.... it made what it made at the flywheel on the Zen dyno, on the day, under the conditions it ran. If these were lowest case senario.... than all the better!

Hammer man

iTrader: (25)

Just spent the afternoon reading this project,,(beats working). Super dooper car, and great write-up Shaun.

Shaun

JUNE 2009 – The future evolution plans
Well, either I am mad or simple…… or maybe both!!

This thread has detailed the stages of evolution over the past 6 months+, and of course will continue to detail the progress of the car during the coming months. Much of which will be minor set-up changes, together with how the car and myself get on during certain events. There are still three rounds of ScoobySprint 2009 left this year, various track days I intend in doing and possibly a single round of Time Attack 2009 that I am currently contemplating.

Unfortunately the dreaded “what else can I do to the car” syndrome has already reared it’s ugly head, and thus points me to the purpose of this specific update.

Make no mistake folks, these types of modifications / power expectations cost a lot of money and can cause a lot of stress. This is more than about achieving x bhp to me, it is also a hobby and something that I like doing….. albeit rather expensive. You have been warned!!!

I think this car is a right bit of kit and I am extremely pleased with the results, but one of my mates said to me “You will do something else now, won’t you….. it does not matter how good the car is!!”. After a deep conversation (yeah I know lol) I totally agreed. My problem is I get bored with having something finished and strive to get the excitement of doing something else.

This is not a great trait to have!!!

So anyway….. let’s get to the point.

Whatever I choose it is going to be painful, but here we go.

Current thoughts are:

1) Buy a MY08 car and transplant my engine, fuel system and other ancillaries
Now… this gives me quite a horn, as it would be cool to have a brand new shape Impreza with all the excitement that over 500+bhp provides. I do like the new shape and I would really enjoy this project. The downside is that this will cost me serious cash, for nothing other than a change of shell and newer feel to the car.

This is not a straight swap, as a number of things will need to be purchased again to fit a MY08 car (suspension, brakes, FMIC etc). It would cost me approximately (assuming I can get a JDM car cheap enough and I sell my Spec C with the MY08 engine) £17,000 to complete (this is additional after selling the Spec C). I could do this cheaper by buying a UK MY08, but then I would be stuck with transplanting a UK 2.5l back in to the Spec C, which will have an affect resale and may offset the saving.

2) Push more power out of the CURRENT engine spec of the Spec C
Using E85 or race fuel Tracktive could (in theory) extract more power from the existing set-up. With the high compression engine, the advantages of using high octane fuel could be quite big and cost effective. The reality of this though, is a potential risk on the cylinder liners (remember, I am still on standard liners) with the increased combustion pressures using higher octane fuels, which would be compounded by the increased compression. It is not an issue…. it is a risk. Based on others use of this block (minus the increased compression) it has proved to survive on turbos like a GT35, whilst running Race Fuel.... so like I say, it is a realistic risk, rather than an absolute.

Without doubt, this would be one of the easiest things to test, but I have always wanted to approach the path of most resistance in a way. I have no issues with others choosing to use other fuel types, but I have always wanted to achieve, what I achieve, using VPower.

3) New engine, new turbo and still using VPower
This interests me.... alot.

For this approach I would need to head towards a level that is worth doing it for. My current way of thinking would be a bottom end that is capable of being thrashed and able to withstand 800+bhp (gotta be realistic here and provide me with future scope lol). Be able to handle the highest octane fuel I can throw at it (again future proofing). A turbo that can produce 600bhp at the hubs on VPower.

AND

I would discuss increasing the compression even further if possible, as I would be looking at retaining as much driveability as possible on a larger turbo.

AND

I would also be looking at the possibilities of increasing engine size over 2.5 ltrs.

Tracktive have a bottom end build that would be suitable and I have also been discussing options with Litchfield Imports, as they have a bottom end in development at the moment.

AET Turbos are looking at some different turbo options for me and again Litchfield Imports have some exciting twinscroll developments (both rotated) of the GT35 "type"..... all with the biggest wheel I can ram in the housing! lol

Above all, the car needs to retain excellent road manners.

Conclusion
Way too early to say yet, as a fair bit of research needs to take place and options considered, but I would be lying if I said that Option 3 does not look exciting.

Nothing would be started (if at all) until early Winter 2009 (I need to get some enjoyment out of it with it's current engine spec), but more info on what gets decided as soon as that happens.

Now I have got that off my chest, I can start to think about here and now and continue to crap myself about running at this weekends ScoobySprint!

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

I'm sure you recently commented on me being silly for thinking of going for more power. A larger turbo will also give later spool? As for a transplant into a newer car ? If you went for a UK car I'm sure the 2.5ltr engine won't affect the resale value of your car as prices of 2nd hand vehicles are in the toilet.

mickywrx

iTrader: (29)

Why would you need to buy a new brake kit to fit a Hatchback? I assume the rears?

Fronts mount the same, so just swap them over and get new disks or the disks redrilled.

I digress anyway.

Enjoy the bloody thing for a bit!

Shaun

Steve,
You are absolutely correct on the power front. This is getting stupid, but then again I am stupid! Yes... a larger turbo will give you later spool..... the challenge is as least amount as possible, whilst still hitting targets. That is what I achieved with the current set-up and something I want to carry through with further developments. Getting 600bhp at hubs, with VPower, whilst still achieving this will be a challenge in itself on a 35.

Litchfields value my Spec C with a 360bhp 2ltr at £15,000 on his books. So hardly hitting the toilet quite yet. But yes.... market values need to be thought about when looking to make a decision. I did say "may" though as regards to any offsetting of savings, if involving a UK engine.

I am meeting Iain tomorrow, so will undoutedly discuss available options.

Shaun

Micky,
I would need to put brakes back on my Spec C and I suspect the bells/brackets won't fit a MY08. Or vice versa. Rears are OE on the Spec C, so no issues there.

No intention of doing anything, but enjoying the current spec for the rest of the year. If I still remain a muppet towards Winter..... who knows what will happen.

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

How do you feel you did at scoobysprint today ??? I noticed the result, but do you think the tuition improved you or was it all forgotten under pressure ???

Shaun

Steve,
If I am being honest......it was a disaster , as we had major problems with the car (but not in regards to the engine). I will write up a full report today and explain all.

Fai17

iTrader: (2)

I'm all ears Shaun

Shaun

JUNE 2008 - ScoobySprint Round 3
Houston we have a problem!!

A weekend from hell is probably too strong a word, but it was not exactly relaxed and trouble free as anticipated.

First off.......

I spent a fair bit of time on Friday in the car, driving around to enable me to be more comfortable. This started off on the wrong foot, when I went to get some liquid rereshments from the local shops (before setting off) and managed to kerb one of my wheels. Not a big deal in it's own right, but these had been re-furbed last Summer and where spotless..... until now.

Anyway, I did about 160 miles on Friday. The car was then shoved back in the garage, all ready to go on Saturday up to York.

Saturday Morning - Departure Day
I was at home relaxing (well... bricking myself because of the Sprint the following morning!) and I received a call from Richard Bulmer (Tracktive Solutions).

He was not a happy chappy!

He phoned to say that his car was not going to be running at this round, as it looked like whilst he was mapping it on the Friday, his engine dropped a valve. Until he strips it down, he would not know the damage, but at best it has scrapped his heads, various valves and a piston. At worse, it has scrapped the block. This was REALLY bad news, as the car had undergone various modifications since Round 1 and it was literally all but ready, apart from the final mapping.

Now... running in a team means at times you have to make sacrifices that benefit the team. This was one of those situations. My car was running and Richard is undoutedly a better driver (he has certainly spent as much time, if not more, in my car over the past 8 months lol). I had stated that this year I would be the only person driving my car, but in this scenario, I offered the car to Richard, to give the team the best chance of getting points.

So the deal was done.... Richard would use my car, even though I was still going to drive myself. The car would be running under two drivers (thus, two competitor numbers).

Shaun

Sunday - ScoobySprint Race Day - Round 3
Round 3 was based on Corsica..... twisty and very technical. Not only would this suit the better drivers, but it would also be paramount that your car handled well. The latter was something I was certainly concerned with, as the handling of the car had already been questioned during ScoobyLive 2008 by Simon de Banke, when the suspension set-up had been radically changed.

Setting up the Tracktive Service Area (Photo by Neill Watson.com)


Now.... because of my recent tuition I had also put pressure on myself, as I really wanted to put in to practice the different techniques.

Simon gave me a briefing session as I queued up and explained to me, that as this was the sighting lap just take it easy. Don't worry about the time and just concentrate on the lines and smoothness for this run. He said, that if any point you go "ooo ****", you are going way to quick and this is not what the sighting lap is about. Simon said he would watch me go round and feedback to me on how it looked.

I took his advice onboard and just drove as smooth as possible....... the time was really slow and I posted a 57.016 secs. This was 34th out of 37 for the sighting lap. lol

Simon came over and said that whilst it was not a quick run, it looked good and smooth. Certainly better than anything else (driving wise) he had seen me do before. Simon said that I had drove it well, and that I just needed to pick the speed up..... so get out there NOW (whilst it is still fresh in your head) and try again!

This was now the first timed run......

On this run, I tried to still keep the run smooth and picked up the pace. I must admit, I did not feel that comfortable on this run as the car did not seem to like changing direction and was running very wide just after turn-in. Initial turn-in was great, but it would not hold the line. I just thought I was pushing too hard!

I came in and found I had posted a 49.547, with a split time of 19s. This was slightly concerning, as although the car did not feel right, it showed that I was quick in the first sector (Rob North running as part of the team, was also getting a 19s first sector time at that point and he went on to achieve a 46.375 for his first timed run). The second part of the course was the real twisty bit.

Simon came over and said the run looked good and said I needed to try and improve from this now and that the 1st sector time was great, now I just had to improve on the last sector.

At the end of the 1st timed runs, I was now 15th out of 37 runners.

It was now Richard's turn.......

Go.. Go.. Go (Photo by Neill Watson.com)


Richard managed a 1st timed run of 48.578. Now Richard is a better driver than me, so the fact that he only managed to go 1s quicker than me immediately caused concern when we heard the time.

Richard came in and was not happy!

He said that he pushed the car and it had virtually no grip at the front..... he said the car handled like a bag of ****!

Rightly or wrongly, my heart just sank!

Whilst Richard was thinking about what he could adjust, I went back out in the car just before the lunch break. With the confirmation of the feedback I was getting on my last run (about the car not feeling right) and the fact that Richard had confirmed this and stated that the car was handling really badly, I lost total confidence in myself and the car. No surprise then, that on my 2nd timed run I was slower! At this point (even though I still had available three more timed runs) I just gave up!! I decided not to run anymore..... I had lost all enthusiasm.

Fortunately, whilst Richard was not happy...... he did not give up!

After some discussion between Richard, Simon and myself, Richard started to make some changes to the suspension.

On Richard's 3rd timed run he posted a 48.266. It was slightly better, but Richard said the car was still so far off it was untrue.

After another chat, Richard decided to alter the anti-roll bar at the back. The big problem (as I had felt on my first timed run) was that, initial turn-in was great, but the car would just push on straight away. There was little to no grip at the front and zero feedback through the front.

Unfortunately we were unable to adjust the rear anti roll bar, as the bolts had seized!!! So we had to make further adjustments on the low speed compression on the rear dampers. In affect the ARB was doing nothing and we were trying to use the shocks to do what the ARB should be doing..... not good!

Mr Bulmer getting his hands dirty on my car (Photo by Neill Watson.com)


Richard went out for his 4th timed run and the results suddenly improved. He had managed to post a 46.156s run. At this stage it enabled a 4th overall placing..... good enough for the shootout final.

Richard commented on, that whilst the car felt a lot better than it had in the morning, it was still a country mile off. We had done everything we could do as far as adjustments were concerned, with what we had. This car needs some serious attention to the handling set-up!!

At this point, I asked Richard if he had used high boost yet! Richard said it would be a waste of time, as he can't even get the grip with low boost!!! So, as with the last event, we were still using low boost. lol

He had one timed run left and wanted to improve further....... he tried high boost! This was a big mistake (as he had previously suggested), as he posted a time of 71.609!!! lol As you may of gathered..... he totally ran out of grip at one point and totally lost it!

So regardless of the fact that my car was handling badly (but certainly better than when we both had our first couple of runs), Richard still managed to beat the laws of physics and get my car in 4th place overall for the final. Richard even managed to better his time in my car, in the final, with a 45.922s.

Lined up ready for the FINAL (Photo by Neill Watson.com)


Huge thanks go to Richard for the determination/support and Simon for the advice!

Massive congratulations go to Rob North for getting 2nd overall!!!!

One thing I have learnt, is to keep trying....... I suspect my times would of fallen throughout the day as the set-up was made better and in all reality, when it was a level playing field (handling wise), I was not that far off Richard. I should learn to be more patient.

Suffice to say, that this car is having it's handling set-up totally changed. We need to find what is wrong and get it sorted for ScoobySprint Round 4!

Based on how it did on Sunday and that it can (will) be changed to vastly improve, Richard thinks that changes made to the handling (so it actually does handle), he could of gained another 2secs on the best time he posted.

The evolution will continue over the next 8 weeks, for the next event!

gussy

iTrader: (2)

Carry on Shaun you havent finished yet.... so what was main problem ???.....you didnt have your turn ups high enough ?? you seemed to be in a jovial upbeat mood??

gussy

iTrader: (2)

Shaun forget that comment off me I had posted before seeing what the problems where I think everybody had problems with their cars I certainly did it just would not do what I was asking of it to do unfortunatly Im almost sure it was the driver and not the car in my case after Ian posted a better time driving mine

Shaun

Gus,
The course was certainly a lot more challenging than previous rounds. It does not matter how much power you have though, if the car does not handle, it is all a waste of time......... as I found out first hand. Until you understand first hand, it does not matter how many others tell you.

I just wish I had carried on now..... but I was a beaten man after the second timed run and everyone round me saying that either the car did handle like a boat or it looked like a boat on the circuit, I had lost all my confidence. I thought there was no point in carrying on....... big mistake, as the car's set-up did get better over the day, although still crap.

As regards to you mate..... just keep practicing.

The next round is the killer though in my view..... that will really test car set-up and driver talent.

gussy

iTrader: (2)

Im already looking forward to it Shaun even more so cos its on tarmac,which will make a nice change from abrasive concrete

Shaun

Just to add regarding the event.....

The car drove to and from the event (no trailers used here ) and as previously, the new engine ran faultlessly. It was just a shame it's true potential could not be exploited.

Coming back home, the car had just clocked over 1500 miles since the rebuild.

Fai17

iTrader: (2)

Nice informative write up Shaun

Welldone

gussy

iTrader: (2)

[QUOTE=Shaun;8779758]Just to add regarding the event.....

The car drove to and from the event (no trailers used here )

Im in the same boat Shaun driven the car to and from each event + spare wheels and tyres x 4,box of tools/trolly jack/jerrycans/axle stands/oil/spare pads etc etc all carried in the car