Civic Type R or Focus ST ?
07 January 2009 | 01:00 PM
#31
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From: Hampshire
I do indeed mean the DS, superb bit of kit. In this weather at the moment with the cheapo front tyres the dealer put on my car its spinning its wheels in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and on the change to 4th with my foot to the floor, so have to moderate the right foot until I get my Goodyear Eagle Assymetrics on!
08 January 2009 | 08:21 PM
#32
Alright mate 
I saw you were also on the ST forum 
You alright?
That's cool, I've got the stratagem duo coming next week and I can't wait. I've only had the car a couple of weeks but I read up on them and decided that was the one to have I've also got some other bits which I'm going to fit this weekend.
I saw you were also on the ST forum You alright?That's cool, I've got the stratagem duo coming next week and I can't wait. I've only had the car a couple of weeks but I read up on them and decided that was the one to have
I've also got some other bits which I'm going to fit this weekend.
10 January 2009 | 09:33 PM
#34
I'm not going to do much to it, I've had some eibach springs and ecu spacer fitted today then next week I'll get the dreamscience and panel filter. That should keep me going for a while because I still have the Cosworth too
11 January 2009 | 05:21 PM
#35
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From: Rugby League the greatest game in the world
I am thinking of going for the ST3, i have owned a Scooby in the past but i just cant seem to like the new one. Plus the outright performance is no longer such a issue. For 16k you can get a nearly brand new ST3, where as your looking at 21K for the STI.
I liked the old Type R but the new one just looks sh*te
I liked the old Type R but the new one just looks sh*te
12 January 2009 | 12:39 PM
#36
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From: Lancashire
Well I test drove both yesterday back to back. First the ST, actually an ST3 so with the leather recaros. Dealer was pretty poor - guy knew nothing about the different specs and had to refer to the brochure. Test drive was about 10 mins and he kept saying not to speed bla bla bla.
No real "this looks like a sports car" feeling when walking up to it. The drive was ok. Sound nice but felt very lardy and very sluggish / slow low in the rev range. By comparison getting back into my 1.6 Astra felt a lot nippier at lower speeds. The few times I did boot it the ST had a tendency to pull the car towards the centre of the road, conditions slightly wet. Didnt want to offer much off and lowest price was £18,350 ST2.
In contrast the Civic (in Milano Red) looks very good in the flesh especially with the 19" Rage wheels. Better seating position inside and definetly looks a higher quality inside. Ride is firm on the 19's but car feels sharp and agile even at low revs an throughout the rev range. I personally found it easier to drive through traffic etc. Good steering feedback and response. Dealer knew her stuff and the test drive was a good hour.
I also like the fold flat rear seats as means plenty of rooms for lugging around wakeboards, shooting kit and might even squeeze my MTB in there
Some great deals on the Type R's at the mo - list is £18,700 approx and straight away offered a GT at £17k with 0% finance. Ive done a bit more reading on the Type R forums and people are getting them as low as £15k new from Honda Dealers so seems like an absolute bargain compared to what Ford are offering.
I suppose I shouldnt be so shocked when comparing a Fat Hatch like the ST to a CTR but after all the praise heaped onto the ST even on here I was expecting a lot more.
So at the moment pretty tempted to order a CTR GT in Milano Red on an 09 plate. Just need the girlfriend to check if her cousin (honda salesman) can do me a better deal than locally.
Simon
No real "this looks like a sports car" feeling when walking up to it. The drive was ok. Sound nice but felt very lardy and very sluggish / slow low in the rev range. By comparison getting back into my 1.6 Astra felt a lot nippier at lower speeds. The few times I did boot it the ST had a tendency to pull the car towards the centre of the road, conditions slightly wet. Didnt want to offer much off and lowest price was £18,350 ST2.
In contrast the Civic (in Milano Red) looks very good in the flesh especially with the 19" Rage wheels. Better seating position inside and definetly looks a higher quality inside. Ride is firm on the 19's but car feels sharp and agile even at low revs an throughout the rev range. I personally found it easier to drive through traffic etc. Good steering feedback and response. Dealer knew her stuff and the test drive was a good hour.
I also like the fold flat rear seats as means plenty of rooms for lugging around wakeboards, shooting kit and might even squeeze my MTB in there
Some great deals on the Type R's at the mo - list is £18,700 approx and straight away offered a GT at £17k with 0% finance. Ive done a bit more reading on the Type R forums and people are getting them as low as £15k new from Honda Dealers so seems like an absolute bargain compared to what Ford are offering.
I suppose I shouldnt be so shocked when comparing a Fat Hatch like the ST to a CTR but after all the praise heaped onto the ST even on here I was expecting a lot more.
So at the moment pretty tempted to order a CTR GT in Milano Red on an 09 plate. Just need the girlfriend to check if her cousin (honda salesman) can do me a better deal than locally.
Simon
Civic is a good car, and has excellent details but it's just not as nice to be in as the Focus, in particular the Civic suspension is rotten, and the Type R version is even worse and on long journeys I end up being tired in the Civic but very comfy in the ST, even with it's lowered Eibach's fitted.
The Honda is a nice choice, but out of the two I would always choose the ST to take out from a comfort perspective as it's much nicer to live with, and not just down to the horrible rear vision in the Civic which is a nightmare in this weather.
Don't be fooled by the Honda interior either, they are a nightmare to keep clean and they scratch very easily indeed.
If I had to choose between an ST and CTR there would be no competition, ST would win hands down. I fully agree they are slow as std, but as above get it remapped and you have a completely different car.
Last edited by Dream Weaver; 12 January 2009 at 12:40 PM.
12 January 2009 | 02:34 PM
#37
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From: Arborfield, Berkshire
I have both an ST and a 56 plate Civic (albeit the 2.2 diesel version), and although when I first got the ST I preferred the Civic's seating position, and interior layout after 9 months it's now pretty much the other way round and I have adjusted the Civic layout to match the ST as much as poss.
Civic is a good car, and has excellent details but it's just not as nice to be in as the Focus, in particular the Civic suspension is rotten, and the Type R version is even worse and on long journeys I end up being tired in the Civic but very comfy in the ST, even with it's lowered Eibach's fitted.
The Honda is a nice choice, but out of the two I would always choose the ST to take out from a comfort perspective as it's much nicer to live with, and not just down to the horrible rear vision in the Civic which is a nightmare in this weather.
Don't be fooled by the Honda interior either, they are a nightmare to keep clean and they scratch very easily indeed.
If I had to choose between an ST and CTR there would be no competition, ST would win hands down. I fully agree they are slow as std, but as above get it remapped and you have a completely different car.
Civic is a good car, and has excellent details but it's just not as nice to be in as the Focus, in particular the Civic suspension is rotten, and the Type R version is even worse and on long journeys I end up being tired in the Civic but very comfy in the ST, even with it's lowered Eibach's fitted.
The Honda is a nice choice, but out of the two I would always choose the ST to take out from a comfort perspective as it's much nicer to live with, and not just down to the horrible rear vision in the Civic which is a nightmare in this weather.
Don't be fooled by the Honda interior either, they are a nightmare to keep clean and they scratch very easily indeed.
If I had to choose between an ST and CTR there would be no competition, ST would win hands down. I fully agree they are slow as std, but as above get it remapped and you have a completely different car.
The ST is an comfortable cruiser with a turbo'd engine attached. Horses for courses and all that. Maybe I will be back here next year complaining of a bad back
And what do you mean you have adjusted the Civics interior to match the ST - Im a bit lost by that one?
Cheers
Simon
12 January 2009 | 03:51 PM
#38
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From: Lancashire
The ST seats are quite high as std and when I first bought it I wasn't keen, but after a few months I found the ST so much more comfortable that I adjusted the Civic seats to be as high as possible to match the Focus.
It's not just the harshness of the Civic suspension, it's the fact it's rubbish - we had our bump stops all replaced recently due to crashing over minor potholes and they are going again.
In cold weather the rear of the Civic creaks like an old chap, and it's not just our low miles one, most of the Civic range has had suspension issues.
Civic drives OK, but the Focus smashes it for hadnling and ride, as well as for comfort and I'm including the CTR here as I nearly bought one before the ST.
The ST3 you drove must have been a bad un as I am always amazed at how good the Focus chassis is.
Don't know how bothered you are about performance, but a chipped ST will kill a CTR in every way from my experience of both cars.
It's not just the harshness of the Civic suspension, it's the fact it's rubbish - we had our bump stops all replaced recently due to crashing over minor potholes and they are going again.
In cold weather the rear of the Civic creaks like an old chap, and it's not just our low miles one, most of the Civic range has had suspension issues.
Civic drives OK, but the Focus smashes it for hadnling and ride, as well as for comfort and I'm including the CTR here as I nearly bought one before the ST.
The ST3 you drove must have been a bad un as I am always amazed at how good the Focus chassis is.
Don't know how bothered you are about performance, but a chipped ST will kill a CTR in every way from my experience of both cars.
13 January 2009 | 08:34 AM
#39
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From: Arborfield, Berkshire
I appreciate the feedback. It does sound from this (and other replies Ive seen) your very smitten with the ST. Although if Im honest it does seem a tad bias but if everyone like the same car it would be rather boring.
I was really ready to like the ST, especially the 5 pot soundtrack as thats what drew me to Scoobs originally. Admittedly I didnt have the longest test drive in the world but it just didnt grab me in any way.
From what Ive seen there is nothing to suggest a standard ST will outdo an FN2 CTR especially in terms of handling. They have almost identical PS per tonne and Top Gear got the FN2 around their track 1.5 secs quicker than the ST.
The nail in the coffin for the ST is the lease rates as this time around I dont fancy sinking all my cash into a car. Most places are charging around £100 more per month for the ST over the FN2 which shows their lack of confidence in its residual value.
Cheers
Simon
but if everyone like the same car it would be rather boring.I was really ready to like the ST, especially the 5 pot soundtrack as thats what drew me to Scoobs originally. Admittedly I didnt have the longest test drive in the world but it just didnt grab me in any way.
From what Ive seen there is nothing to suggest a standard ST will outdo an FN2 CTR especially in terms of handling. They have almost identical PS per tonne and Top Gear got the FN2 around their track 1.5 secs quicker than the ST.
The nail in the coffin for the ST is the lease rates as this time around I dont fancy sinking all my cash into a car. Most places are charging around £100 more per month for the ST over the FN2 which shows their lack of confidence in its residual value.
Cheers
Simon
13 January 2009 | 09:30 AM
#40
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From: Lancashire
I think the ST is awesome now I've sorted the performance mods and lowered the suspension.
It was a different story when I bought it though, I was very very disappointed with the performance as std and found it very lacking in any sort of fun factor - in fact I have a 5 page thread saying such a thing on the STOC forum!!
It's impossible to emphasise how much having it remapped makes it into a totally different car, it's like jumping from a Justy into a P1.
It was a different story when I bought it though, I was very very disappointed with the performance as std and found it very lacking in any sort of fun factor - in fact I have a 5 page thread saying such a thing on the STOC forum!!
It's impossible to emphasise how much having it remapped makes it into a totally different car, it's like jumping from a Justy into a P1.
13 January 2009 | 09:45 AM
#41
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From: Lancashire
And for a bit more bias, the Top Gear ST lap was wet, and the CTR lap was bone dry (and gets a slating - YouTube - Top Gear new honda civic type r) so 1.5 secs is fine IMO 
As for residuals, I don't think anything is safe - our Civic has lost over 50% since we bought it at 6 months old.
But you can't argue with the lease costs, if there is a £100 a month difference, although the Civic costs a lot to run, our last service was over £500, £150 on the Focus.
As for residuals, I don't think anything is safe - our Civic has lost over 50% since we bought it at 6 months old.
But you can't argue with the lease costs, if there is a £100 a month difference, although the Civic costs a lot to run, our last service was over £500, £150 on the Focus.
13 January 2009 | 10:20 AM
#42
The new UK CTR isnt worthy of the Type-R badge, although that badge is the only reason it sells if it were Civic Sport (which i think would be more appropriate), they wouldnt sell many. The Type-R badge has become a clevering marketing ploy for Honda UK and it works for them.
Evidently your budget wont stretch to the JDM CTR which is a superbly rated car and well worthy of the Type R badge but if you really wanted to go down the Type-R route why not get a mint DC5 Integra from litchfield or newera imports?
If it has to be a uk car, personally Id be looking at a Leon Cupra, Astra VXR or ST3. I havent driven a new UK CTR but the reviews ive read have been lame accross the board so surley thats a good indication.
Evidently your budget wont stretch to the JDM CTR which is a superbly rated car and well worthy of the Type R badge but if you really wanted to go down the Type-R route why not get a mint DC5 Integra from litchfield or newera imports?
If it has to be a uk car, personally Id be looking at a Leon Cupra, Astra VXR or ST3. I havent driven a new UK CTR but the reviews ive read have been lame accross the board so surley thats a good indication.
13 January 2009 | 10:22 AM
#43
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From: Arborfield, Berkshire
Your correct the ST lap was in the wet. Just didnt show it on the powerlap list I looked at - only said it was foggy lol??
Thats very high for a service - especially when with a new or up to 6mth old car they offer you £530 for 5yrs fixed servicing. What did that include over and above the service cost?
Cheers
Simon
Thats very high for a service - especially when with a new or up to 6mth old car they offer you £530 for 5yrs fixed servicing. What did that include over and above the service cost?
Cheers
Simon
13 January 2009 | 11:03 AM
#44
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From: Lancashire
£344 for the service, and then it needed pads all round at £170, even though it's done less than 20k miles and is the Mrs car so never brakes hard!!! They said the front pads were down to 10%!!
The dealer is average at best though, so they never told me about the servicing package or anything else when we bought it, they always take hours longer than they say as well to do anything.
The dealer is average at best though, so they never told me about the servicing package or anything else when we bought it, they always take hours longer than they say as well to do anything.
13 January 2009 | 11:05 AM
#45
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From: Lancashire
Don't get me wrong though, in general the Civic has been excellent and returns 55-57mpg when we do a long run. It just seems to have more niggles than the Focus does and feels a bit more like driving a tank.
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