Personally i think he should hang
16 December 2008, 10:58 PM
#31
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IBTW most of the costs of keeping someone in prison must surely be 'fixed costs' anyway, unless you have to build new prisons (which I think we should be doing anyway), and hiring more employees. Plus of course the actual cost involved is in the grand scene of things is the square route of nothing
In fact with the exception of a heavy duty door and stainless steel bathroom the cells look my girlfriends city centre apartment !!!!! ......... and she has to pay a lot more than a criminal to live there........... joking aside i really dont know what the total cost of housing the likes of Liam Brady was but i bet its a lot more than having him executed after those evil crimes were committed
Last edited by Buzzer; 16 December 2008 at 11:00 PM.
16 December 2008, 11:03 PM
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You cant either though? it isnt possible, the only thing i would say though is if you personally ever found the hatred to want to kill someone and plan their death, would knowing paying with your life be a good return? I am fairly certain that a "lot" of people would think twice about it. The problem with murder is that the murderer ruins so many lives, they devistate relatives lives, communities and social structures. Without Britain having the death penalty in place, no one will ever know if its a deterrent but hey i'm willing to give it a go
We are building lots of new prisons, thats something i'm heavily involved with in my job, they're lovely In fact with the exception of a heavy duty door and stainless steel bathroom the cells look my girlfriends city centre apartment !!!!! ......... and she has to pay a lot more than a criminal to live there........... joking aside i really dont know what the total cost of housing the likes of Liam Brady was but i bet its a lot more than having him executed after those evil crimes were committed
We are building lots of new prisons, thats something i'm heavily involved with in my job, they're lovely
In fact with the exception of a heavy duty door and stainless steel bathroom the cells look my girlfriends city centre apartment !!!!! ......... and she has to pay a lot more than a criminal to live there........... joking aside i really dont know what the total cost of housing the likes of Liam Brady was but i bet its a lot more than having him executed after those evil crimes were committed
Ian Brady
16 December 2008, 11:04 PM
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16 December 2008, 11:47 PM
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Some one should charge the murdering ***** girlfriend with being persistently stupid in a built up area, Sky news must be loving that story!
If ever there was an argument for compulsory sterlilization she is it!
As for the death penalty that would be the easy way out, I suspect 22 years as big bubba's plaything is going to leave him walking like John Wayne if they ever let him out.
You have to wonder if the girlfriend will wait for him on the outside, oh wait, she's a scally, £10 says she's getting roared up by someone else within a week.
If ever there was an argument for compulsory sterlilization she is it!
As for the death penalty that would be the easy way out, I suspect 22 years as big bubba's plaything is going to leave him walking like John Wayne if they ever let him out.
You have to wonder if the girlfriend will wait for him on the outside, oh wait, she's a scally, £10 says she's getting roared up by someone else within a week.
17 December 2008, 12:18 AM
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Some one should charge the murdering ***** girlfriend with being persistently stupid in a built up area, Sky news must be loving that story!
If ever there was an argument for compulsory sterlilization she is it!
As for the death penalty that would be the easy way out, I suspect 22 years as big bubba's plaything is going to leave him walking like John Wayne if they ever let him out.
You have to wonder if the girlfriend will wait for him on the outside, oh wait, she's a scally, £10 says she's getting roared up by someone else within a week.
If ever there was an argument for compulsory sterlilization she is it!
As for the death penalty that would be the easy way out, I suspect 22 years as big bubba's plaything is going to leave him walking like John Wayne if they ever let him out.
You have to wonder if the girlfriend will wait for him on the outside, oh wait, she's a scally, £10 says she's getting roared up by someone else within a week.
but I agree completely. 
17 December 2008, 12:40 AM
#36
My 2p, and no doubt I'll be shot down for this. I personally feel we really need to crack down on 'lower level' crime, and make it so harsher punishment is given for that, to make it more than clear destructive, antisocial, criminal behaviour won't be tolerated and won't be taken lightly, with a slap on the wrist or an asbo which most likely will be ignored.
We do need to be harsher, and do more to stop people getting to a point of serious crime such as this case. And we need to tackle social issues from the root. There is alot needs done in society and in law to take a heavier hand, but we need to tackle alot of causes as well as setting punishment.
I don't say this because I'm particularly liberal, but I think we need to look at the whole picture.
As for the death penalty, I don't agree with it personally for many different reasons. Not just as I don't think it's the right approach in itself, but also, I don't feel it would be a strong deterrant.I doubt many little ******* etc really give consideration to the consequences when going out committing whatever crime. I doubt this murderer considered what his actions would result in, either in terms to people, or in terms of what might happen to him if caught, even people like this would generally not want to be imprisoned for a chunk of their life, and even if we had a dp, I don't think that would be even thought about in many cases. Also, those killed in the subaru crash, I doubt they gave a second thought to what could happen to them or anyone either... whether they'd be caught and what punishment they might get, whether they could have killed someone, or as it happened themselves.
In many criminals, or even kids acting up(at whatever level), I doubt many really give any or much consideration to the consequences before hand, and no matter what punishment is out there, it may not stop them. They need to learn what results from their actions, so treat them harshly for 'lesser' crimes, see if they want to go back inside, make prisons tougher, and yes try to get into the minds of them before it comes to this sort of thing if possible.
There is alot needs adressed, and while I share the anger of people out there, we need to tackle thing with clear thinking, not emotionally.
We do need to be harsher, and do more to stop people getting to a point of serious crime such as this case. And we need to tackle social issues from the root. There is alot needs done in society and in law to take a heavier hand, but we need to tackle alot of causes as well as setting punishment.
I don't say this because I'm particularly liberal, but I think we need to look at the whole picture.
As for the death penalty, I don't agree with it personally for many different reasons. Not just as I don't think it's the right approach in itself, but also, I don't feel it would be a strong deterrant.I doubt many little ******* etc really give consideration to the consequences when going out committing whatever crime. I doubt this murderer considered what his actions would result in, either in terms to people, or in terms of what might happen to him if caught, even people like this would generally not want to be imprisoned for a chunk of their life, and even if we had a dp, I don't think that would be even thought about in many cases. Also, those killed in the subaru crash, I doubt they gave a second thought to what could happen to them or anyone either... whether they'd be caught and what punishment they might get, whether they could have killed someone, or as it happened themselves.
In many criminals, or even kids acting up(at whatever level), I doubt many really give any or much consideration to the consequences before hand, and no matter what punishment is out there, it may not stop them. They need to learn what results from their actions, so treat them harshly for 'lesser' crimes, see if they want to go back inside, make prisons tougher, and yes try to get into the minds of them before it comes to this sort of thing if possible.
There is alot needs adressed, and while I share the anger of people out there, we need to tackle thing with clear thinking, not emotionally.
17 December 2008, 08:38 AM
#38
If the DP was reintroduced I would happily put the noose round this ******* neck .
Keeping them in comfort in prison is too good for them .
No way is keeping them alive ,anywhere near the same cost to us as necking the ****** !!!!!!
100 % Guilty = 100 % DEAD !!!!!!!! End Of .Literally .
I see a new Career ahead of me .
Keeping them in comfort in prison is too good for them .
No way is keeping them alive ,anywhere near the same cost to us as necking the ****** !!!!!!
100 % Guilty = 100 % DEAD !!!!!!!! End Of .Literally .
I see a new Career ahead of me .
17 December 2008, 10:38 AM
#39
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I sometimes wonder if resenting the way that one perceives younger generations developing is a integral part of getting older. BUT
Hand on heart, looking back to when I was 16, 17 I can honestly say that none of my mates would have dreamed of stealing a car. Moreover, none would have derived any esteem from participating in criminal activity of any kind. They would have been disowned by their friends.
That's the core issue here: responsibility and respect among the younger generation. Some young people, lets face it, mostly from deprived areas seem to be so disenfranchised from "regular society" that they just don't bother with education or trying to make a future for themselves.
Instead, they retreat into this murky little fantasy world where they are some kind of "gangsta" and there is kudos to be gained from being uneducated and having little prospects, and respect to be gained from your peers from indulging in criminal behaviour and undermininng the lives of those who tried to do something with themeselves.
Their lack of education and underdeveloped morals perpetuate the livestlye and they'll knock up some dozy bint, like the one that appeared on Sky news, who has no idea of what he means to be a parent and no decent moral or values system to pass down to the child, and thus the cycle is repeated.
Meanwhile the state contributes to the decline of society by
a) Being too cowardly to impose proper punishments for crimes indicative of a start down the career criminal route i.e. car crime and especially possession of offensive weapons.
b) Trying the hands of our public servants (e.g. teachers and police) with pointless beaucracy and PC nonsense which stops them dealing with such behaviour effectively. The police need more frredom when it comes to deling with gangs.
c) Not thinking properly about what to do with petty criminals after their release to try and get them out of the lifestlye and into something productive.
d) Handing out beneifts ***** nilly to any old drop out who decides its easier to doss than work.
e) Providing little in the way of entertainment access to hobbies for youngsters that doesn't cost the earth.
It's got to a situation now where many people harbour the assumption that young people will more likely than not be up to no good, and that means that the good ones are in danger of being tarred with the same brush and marginalised with the drop outs. That's not good for the future.
Ns04
17 December 2008, 11:03 AM
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The DP is the ultimate punishment, not the ultimate deterrent!
Albert Pierpoint said that after over 400 executions he was convinced that the DP was, and never would be an effective deterrent against serious crime.
When people were executed for petty crime, the crime rate was astronomical, so what does that tell you?
Without wishing to sound like NL or the Tories, we need to tackle the cause of crime, not kill those who commit it.
Of cause, those who do break the law need to be punished, but killing them is not the answer.
Geezer
Albert Pierpoint said that after over 400 executions he was convinced that the DP was, and never would be an effective deterrent against serious crime.
When people were executed for petty crime, the crime rate was astronomical, so what does that tell you?
Without wishing to sound like NL or the Tories, we need to tackle the cause of crime, not kill those who commit it.
Of cause, those who do break the law need to be punished, but killing them is not the answer.
Geezer
17 December 2008, 11:14 AM
#41
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The DP is the ultimate punishment, not the ultimate deterrent!
Albert Pierpoint said that after over 400 executions he was convinced that the DP was, and never would be an effective deterrent against serious crime.
When people were executed for petty crime, the crime rate was astronomical, so what does that tell you?
Without wishing to sound like NL or the Tories, we need to tackle the cause of crime, not kill those who commit it.
Of cause, those who do break the law need to be punished, but killing them is not the answer.
Geezer
Albert Pierpoint said that after over 400 executions he was convinced that the DP was, and never would be an effective deterrent against serious crime.
When people were executed for petty crime, the crime rate was astronomical, so what does that tell you?
Without wishing to sound like NL or the Tories, we need to tackle the cause of crime, not kill those who commit it.
Of cause, those who do break the law need to be punished, but killing them is not the answer.
Geezer
17 December 2008, 11:23 AM
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Martin,
In the days when there was a death penalty in this country, there were so few murders that if one did occur it was front page news. There are so many now that most of them only get a very low priority when it comes to reporting it, unless there are other factors which are an excuse for the tabloid reporters.
It is since the death penalty was abolished that there is now such a low value put on life by the criminal classes and that they are prepared to carry weapons as well.
I was impressed by the summing up by the judge, Good to see someone who is not bound by PC attitudes or by any possible fear of reprisal.
Les
In the days when there was a death penalty in this country, there were so few murders that if one did occur it was front page news. There are so many now that most of them only get a very low priority when it comes to reporting it, unless there are other factors which are an excuse for the tabloid reporters.
It is since the death penalty was abolished that there is now such a low value put on life by the criminal classes and that they are prepared to carry weapons as well.
I was impressed by the summing up by the judge, Good to see someone who is not bound by PC attitudes or by any possible fear of reprisal.
Les
17 December 2008, 11:36 AM
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Martin,
In the days when there was a death penalty in this country, there were so few murders that if one did occur it was front page news. There are so many now that most of them only get a very low priority when it comes to reporting it, unless there are other factors which are an excuse for the tabloid reporters.
It is since the death penalty was abolished that there is now such a low value put on life by the criminal classes and that they are prepared to carry weapons as well.
I was impressed by the summing up by the judge, Good to see someone who is not bound by PC attitudes or by any possible fear of reprisal.
Les
In the days when there was a death penalty in this country, there were so few murders that if one did occur it was front page news. There are so many now that most of them only get a very low priority when it comes to reporting it, unless there are other factors which are an excuse for the tabloid reporters.
It is since the death penalty was abolished that there is now such a low value put on life by the criminal classes and that they are prepared to carry weapons as well.
I was impressed by the summing up by the judge, Good to see someone who is not bound by PC attitudes or by any possible fear of reprisal.
Les
I don't think this has anything to do with being PC. For me it's just about right and wrong, if it's wrong to kill, then it's wrong to kill.
Thankfully murder is still a very rare crime, but of course it's increasing, and has been since before the death penalty was abolished!
Martin
17 December 2008, 11:38 AM
#44
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17 December 2008, 12:02 PM
#45
I really dont care if the DP is not a deterant .
Life is now very cheap .
Eye for an eye ,when the evidence is clearcut .Lets reduce this population a little by taking out the Pond Life .!!!!
Make the world a better place .
I dont think murder is that rare ,I can think of a few this last couple of days .Fellas head found in wheely bin ,pensioner found dead in house .etc etc
Would not feel so rare if it was a family member or someone close .Would it .
Life is now very cheap .
Eye for an eye ,when the evidence is clearcut .Lets reduce this population a little by taking out the Pond Life .!!!!
Make the world a better place .
I dont think murder is that rare ,I can think of a few this last couple of days .Fellas head found in wheely bin ,pensioner found dead in house .etc etc
Would not feel so rare if it was a family member or someone close .Would it .
17 December 2008, 12:09 PM
#46
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I really dont care if the DP is not a deterant .
Life is now very cheap .
Eye for an eye ,when the evidence is clearcut .Lets reduce this population a little by taking out the Pond Life .!!!!
Make the world a better place .
I dont think murder is that rare ,I can think of a few this last couple of days .Fellas head found in wheely bin ,pensioner found dead in house .etc etc
Would not feel so rare if it was a family member or someone close .Would it .
Life is now very cheap .
Eye for an eye ,when the evidence is clearcut .Lets reduce this population a little by taking out the Pond Life .!!!!
Make the world a better place .
I dont think murder is that rare ,I can think of a few this last couple of days .Fellas head found in wheely bin ,pensioner found dead in house .etc etc
Would not feel so rare if it was a family member or someone close .Would it .
The odds of a family member being murdered are astronomically high thankfully.
What you are talking about is revenge, and 'the man who sets out on the path of revenge had better dig 2 graves'
17 December 2008, 12:51 PM
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Hi Les
I don't think this has anything to do with being PC. For me it's just about right and wrong, if it's wrong to kill, then it's wrong to kill.
Thankfully murder is still a very rare crime, but of course it's increasing, and has been since before the death penalty was abolished!
Martin
I don't think this has anything to do with being PC. For me it's just about right and wrong, if it's wrong to kill, then it's wrong to kill.
Thankfully murder is still a very rare crime, but of course it's increasing, and has been since before the death penalty was abolished!
Martin
Les
17 December 2008, 12:56 PM
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Death penalty all the way.
The argument about America being an example of how the DP is not a detterant is used on every one of these type of threads but I'm afraid it's simply an invalid argument. Criminals in America can expect be on on 'death row' for years if not decades. The DP or any other 'P' cannot be a detterant when the 'P' is not imposed!
17 December 2008, 01:00 PM
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Sorry but we're just not dealing with "little *******" anymore, this is mind numbing.............
Liverpool's Rival Gangs Using Bombs In Street Battles: Footage Passed To Sky Shows IEDs | UK News | Sky News
Liverpool's Rival Gangs Using Bombs In Street Battles: Footage Passed To Sky Shows IEDs | UK News | Sky News
17 December 2008, 01:01 PM
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Hi Les
I don't think this has anything to do with being PC. For me it's just about right and wrong, if it's wrong to kill, then it's wrong to kill.
Thankfully murder is still a very rare crime, but of course it's increasing, and has been since before the death penalty was abolished!
Martin
I don't think this has anything to do with being PC. For me it's just about right and wrong, if it's wrong to kill, then it's wrong to kill.
Thankfully murder is still a very rare crime, but of course it's increasing, and has been since before the death penalty was abolished!
Martin
you say its wrong to kill, yet daily, hospitals throughout the country refuse to pay for life saving drugs based on cost, which ultimately condemns people to death
Yet the Hippocratic oath means doctors must do all they can to save a life, and yet thier bosses are fighting against them.
Yet murders are banged up at a cost of thousands, when the DP costs as much as a round of ammunition.
What is the oft trotted out line from the bib & govstapo "if we spend thousands on preventing an accident to save one life its worth it."
Shame there saving the wrong one!!!
if the lad who died was your brother, would you feel the same?
mart
17 December 2008, 01:09 PM
#51
Rather than quoting the Old Testament, let's try a bit of New Testament instead.
The odds of a family member being murdered are astronomically high thankfully.
What you are talking about is revenge, and 'the man who sets out on the path of revenge had better dig 2 graves'
The odds of a family member being murdered are astronomically high thankfully.
What you are talking about is revenge, and 'the man who sets out on the path of revenge had better dig 2 graves'
I am not seeking Revenge as you quoted .I think you will find it is "Retribution ".
"Do unto others as they do unto you " My Testament .!!!!!
I will happily dig as many graves as necessary to rid this country of Scum who choose to make their own Laws .
It needs a Government with B*lls to sort out the mess we are in now .
Vote NJKMR .
17 December 2008, 01:10 PM
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A strange statement Martin
you say its wrong to kill, yet daily, hospitals throughout the country refuse to pay for life saving drugs based on cost, which ultimately condemns people to death
Yet the Hippocratic oath means doctors must do all they can to save a life, and yet thier bosses are fighting against them.
Yet murders are banged up at a cost of thousands, when the DP costs as much as a round of ammunition.
What is the oft trotted out line from the bib & govstapo "if we spend thousands on preventing an accident to save one life its worth it."
Shame there saving the wrong one!!!
if the lad who died was your brother, would you feel the same?
mart
you say its wrong to kill, yet daily, hospitals throughout the country refuse to pay for life saving drugs based on cost, which ultimately condemns people to death
Yet the Hippocratic oath means doctors must do all they can to save a life, and yet thier bosses are fighting against them.
Yet murders are banged up at a cost of thousands, when the DP costs as much as a round of ammunition.
What is the oft trotted out line from the bib & govstapo "if we spend thousands on preventing an accident to save one life its worth it."
Shame there saving the wrong one!!!
if the lad who died was your brother, would you feel the same?
mart
That line is trotted out nearly as often 'if it was your relative........'
What I would feel about CP in those circumstances in frankly irrelevant though isn't it? Unless you are proposing handing over the criminal justice system to the victims of crime?
So not only are you in support of capital punishment, you are in favour of it without due process?
We will never see eye to eye on this, you have a considered view on this, so do I. Ultimately this is a moot debate, because capital punishment isn't coming back anytime soon.
17 December 2008, 04:02 PM
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That line is trotted out nearly as often 'if it was your relative........'
What I would feel about CP in those circumstances in frankly irrelevant though isn't it? Unless you are proposing handing over the criminal justice system to the victims of crime?
So not only are you in support of capital punishment, you are in favour of it without due process?
We will never see eye to eye on this, you have a considered view on this, so do I. Ultimately this is a moot debate, because capital punishment isn't coming back anytime soon.
What I would feel about CP in those circumstances in frankly irrelevant though isn't it? Unless you are proposing handing over the criminal justice system to the victims of crime?
So not only are you in support of capital punishment, you are in favour of it without due process?
We will never see eye to eye on this, you have a considered view on this, so do I. Ultimately this is a moot debate, because capital punishment isn't coming back anytime soon.
I never mentioned due process, but in this case its been carried out.
would the sentence have been different if it had been in place?
If we carry on down the road were on now, given the state of the current
lot in power, it would only take one persuasive person / party to implement
a few tough measures ( as a start
) once the people see results, they want more.
To be fair, theres an island of the coast of scotland grid ref NG 945 945
thats looking for a new landlord
what could be better, a new job and some training for him
and Winston does the job for us all
BTW if i recall Pierpoint only became disillusioned once he had to do
production line hangings on the Germans at Nuremberg.
there is no hard, fast or right soloution to this one, you have your views i
have mine. neither will change
Stalemate
Mart
17 December 2008, 09:52 PM
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