camk

Too many pr*$ks on here who think that once they are in their car that their duty is to obey the law and if a child runs out on them then they can hold their hands up and say "hey I was only doing the limit and I've got a scoob" and "where are the parents".
Its simple as an ADULT(in the loosest sense) your are obliged by society(unfortunately part of civilisation for you cavemen types) to be aware that kids do crazy things.
This happens when their parents are there and when they are not there. If you do not accept this responsibility then F*%k off somewhere in the desert where no-one else lives.
Parents have a responsibility(thats accepted), sure but so do you as a driver to look for hazards, its about being CIVILISED, even bloody animals protect their young as a community.
I'm also not so sure it would be easy to shrug off killing someone in your car, even if it wasn't you fault, lets hope no one on here has to try that. BTW Kids don't watch Road Safety adverts.......

Cammy

PS is it just me or has the quality of posts/posters went down over the last few months.....

Spec

Camk - I think it's just you Surely the posts in this topic show that Scoobynet can have a decent discussion topic, you don't have to like or agree with whats posted. Freedom of speech innit?
I agree that pedestrians (and parents) have an important part to play in road safety. I remember the lessons at school on road safety and 'the green cross code' etc. I think it was at primary school? Is it true that these sort of things are'nt taught anymore?
I also remember the sore **** I got off my mum for running out into the road after a ball without looking! (And so never did that again!).
BUT no matter how well educated the pedestrians are its up to you, me and everyone here to drive in such a way as to minimilise as much as possible the chances of being involved in an accident either car/car or car/person.

Tiggs

roflma-

"This happens when their parents are there and when they are not there. If you do not accept this responsibility then F*%k off somewhere in the desert where no-one else lives."

class!


spec,

good job when you ran out in the road you werent knocked down, that would hurt more than a whack from your mum!

Tiggs

Luke

Bollocks... The test is so stupid .no wonder people cant drive.

Diablo

Free T

I've made plenty of mistakes, but none that killed or injured someone or got me seriously injured.

Juan, you have to have your dog under control, AFAIK, by law. Are parents not legally responsible for their children under a certain age? If not, they should be.

Tiggs, agreed. Kids are excitable and make mistakes. This is common knowledge. You should therefore not allow your kids to put themselves in a situation where that mistake will get them killed. That is common sense surely?

Camk, I assume your post was directed at me

I don't take anything for granted, and accept a social responsibility. I accept that kids do crazy things, but I'm not spending my life making up for the deficiencies of parents in looking after their kids interests every breathing moment of the day.

If you choose to have kids, you accept that responsibility and don't shoulder it off on others with some crap about "kids will be kids" And "Oh, did dearest little [insert name] break a window, paint the wall, strangle the cat, scratch the neighbours car, commit some other antisocial act, Awwww, come to mummy and daddy, its ok, its not your fault" bollox.

So, your kid gets hold of a firework, sets it of (knowing full well what it will do)and blinds someone. I suppose thats the fault of the firework manufacturer, or perhaps the person for standing in its way?? God forbid it might be the fault of the child or, worse, the parent.......

Extreme example I know, but the point is the same.

I'm not trying to avoid my responsibility, I'm just asking for parents to assume theirs.

D

tiggers

Diablo,

I hear you brother. Top comments re. kids and their parents. Still don't think some will understand though (if you know what I mean).

Regards,

tiggers.

Tiggs

i think you'll find even the best parents will, at some point, find their child doing something impulsive and potentialy dangerous.

Tiggs

ps- when you were young did you never?

camk

Diablo,
No parent would willfully expose their children to a life or Death situation. You miss the whole point if you run over a kid(who possibly doesn't know better) then its he/she who dies and not the parent therefore the blame and 'Punishment' are not equally aportioned.
You are of course taking a purely Darwinian(almost Anarchistic) view that **** happens and some weak folks will die. Hopefully some big blokes with Guns don't try to Rob you of your motor at the lights, because hey **** happens and why should I bother as long as its not happening to me...One step away from chaos

juan

Diablo,

You need to get with the real world friend. You sound like you want all kids on a leash. You don't even keep your dog under control and thats the law, unlike with kids.

Plenty of these dogs that go mental and maim a kid had never done anything like it before. Thats why the parents give you a stare - because you're being irresponsible. Yours dog could turn, just lile any other

You've made plenty of mistakes you say. Well just be grateful there wasn't a kid in the way while you were making your mistakes and leave it at that, or would you rather all children were kept locked inside?
The ad is merely trying to show people how even a small increase in speed can make a mistake have much worse consequences for gods sake. Like the chappie said about the andrex puppies, you can pick any ad apart if you really want, you can pick any film apart if you want - people always do stupid things that don't make sense just to get the plot turning properly.

Jeez some people on here have no idea!!! You seem to be saying that you can make mistakes but parents can't and much have their kids in visual contact 24 hours a day seven days a week for 16 years.

[Edited by juan - 2/20/2002 3:20:33 PM]

tiggers

Yep - sounds good to me although 18 years might be preferable. If you don't like it don't have them.

tiggers

Tiggs

lol- tuff tities mate! we have them and you have to put up with it! if you dont like it see the post about living in the desert!

tiggers

Tried the desert, but came across some guy called Saddam who seemed to behave slightly worse than your kids so came back.

tiggers.

boomer

Tiggs,

A Freudian slip perchance? Bring back the Tufty Club!!!!!

mb

sasman

What has Diablo said that is so wrong, if he knocked somone down while driving safely he would not feel guilty. I completely agree.

camk

Tiggers,
If they go for 18 make sure its your physical age and not the age you act or you might be getting kept in for a while yet

Cheers
Cammy

Its always refreshing to get the other view, its just a wee reminder how dangerous the world really is......be careful out there.

Diablo

Cheers for the support Tiggers and Sasman Yup, they'll never get it because with children come blinkers

ROFLMAO at this now.

Gees Tiggs, Juan and whoever else is on the bandwagon, get a grip and stop reading things into my posts that aren't there.

My "mistakes" were not in the car....doh....but as a child. Never made any that could have got me killed

Sure its not easy looking after them 24/7, but hey, thats tough. You make your choices, you live with the consequences. Fate doesn't exist in my mind.

As for the Darwinian comment, no clever response, so - my ****! . On second thoughts, **** happens, but thats not to say it should. If you read my posts, I'm trying to put forward a view that **** doesn't happen when people are responsible.

And er, sorry, no. You choose to have kids, I (we?) don't have to put up with it.

As for my Dog, the law says she has to be under control. She is. Always on a lead where she should be.

Oh, and seing as how there is clear prejudice and misunderstanding about devil dogs, here's a stereotype picture for all the dog hating grotty child loving lefties out there...LOL.....



D.

PS - that was a joke

juan

? always on a lead where she should be ?

I don't have kids either amigo and none planned.

So you made mistakes as a kid.
[banter mode on]
WHY? WHY WEREN'T YOUR PARENTS WATCHING YOU? THEY HAVE FAILED IN THEIR DUTY!! RANT RANT RANT!
;-)
[banter mode off]

[Edited by juan - 2/21/2002 2:24:37 PM]

Diablo

Juan,

Where she should be :-

- As in where it dictates by bylaws "All dogs must be kept on leash"

- As in anywhere near a road/railway/machinery etc, etc so she doesn't get run over

- As in places where I am concerned about her safety

If I'm walking through a country park and she's having a run (as dogs do) and minding her own business, I will not be made to feel like an outcast by certain people [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]. Sorry, didn't think that a full and detailed narrative was required

As for mistakes, absolutely agree. My parents ain't perfect either .

For the last time of posting this point my mistakes didn't result in death or serious injury.

FFS how many in one post?



[Edited by Diablo - 2/21/2002 2:59:33 PM]

tiggers

Diablo,

Keep going, even the ones with kids might get it in the end if you repeat it enough times.

When these people have kids do their brains fall out or were they always stupid, blinkered and incapable of reading someone elses posts properly?

Lovely dog by the way (even with the devil eyes).

Regards,

tiggers.

juan

Getting tedious I grant you.

I can't even see what the problem is here:
when you were making your mistakes as a nipper, if any of them had involved a road would you rather the drivers of nearby cars had been
(a) paying care and attention, and keeping speed to a responsible level
(b) speeding / driving irresponsibly

Case closed from my end!

Its about responsibility. Whilst YOU expect kids to behave in a responsible manner, they can't always - thats because they're kids. They don't have the attention span / intelligence / experience / undertsanding / whatever, regardless of what parents drum into them.
Don't get me wrong too much. Some are little *****, but many are not. They're just kids :-)

Adults on the other hand, and that includes all vehicle drivers are old enough to take full responsibility for their actions.

Now in the unfortunate event of an accident, if you were behaving responsibly at the time then yes you can't have TOO much on your conscience (sp!), but if you were being irresponsible like the driver in advert (be it driving too fast, farting about with your phone, changing a tape etc.) then the driver MUST take some of the responsibility no matter what circumstances the kid runs out.

Do you disagree with this still?
Gonna try and refrain from posting again on this thread.

My views are clear and ain't gonna change.
I'll fetch me coat now.
:-)

regarding original topic, the guy doing the test got it wrong. whilst his car will stop well within 21ft extra, it won't stop in 6ft extra.
21ft for big old cr@p cars. seems fair enough to me.
The ad is trying to show people that even an extra 5mph can make a fair difference to stopping distances, which it can.
Case closed. There are experts here telling you the same. Don't pass the buck to the kids, or their parents.


[Edited by juan - 2/21/2002 4:43:50 PM]

DavidRB

Add the word "trains" to your argument then...

tiggers

Juan,

Well hooray for that.

While I agree with some of what you said I know for a fact that if your kid ran out in front of my car and got hurt you would hold me responsible regardless of the speed I was doing. It's just something that happens when you bear offspring I think - a kind of unreasonable judgement gene kicks in somewhere.

What I (and I think Diablo) are saying is that if we were within the speed limit and driving sensibly we would not lose any sleep over it conscience wise at least (the proverbial lawsuit from you would bother me as would the subsequent castigation by the general public, local paper etc.)

There was a post on here some time ago about an event like this that actually happened to one of our Scoobynet members - made for frightening reading.

What I don't understand is that if you have a kid that you feel maybe prone to run across the road in front of a car isn't it your responsibility to not put them in a position where that could happen rather than just say 'kids will be kids' - one of the stupidest expressions I've ever heard. You've had them so bloddy well look after them.

And anyway I still think the ad is misleading so basically we don't agree on much do we?

tiggers.

camk

Diablo,
Do you use a pooper scooper when your out with your dog ? I don't let my kid **** on the pavement so I hope you don't do the same with your dog...LOL...since we're comparing the way we treat our respective little darlings.

Tigger,
LOL at you, grrreat(sic) attitude. As it was said before no-one would put there kids in a dangerous position intentionally. The same way that no-one on here thinks they will prang their car but ACCIDENTS happen(how many guys on here have 3rd Party then, bet you don't), all thats asked for is that people realise that accidents are more likely to happen to kids as they have less awareness of the true dangers out there(big dogs excepted ) Look your attitude is simply hey I'm OK and happy if I'm in the law and kids shouldn't do it and its not my fault. Based on your 'Life Outlook' I could say , guys with flash cars, hey they choose to have them so its their responsibility/choice to deal with robbers who want the cars from them without paying. These guys don't bother me in my 1981 VW Golf or whatever.
Responsibility I accept but I do not accept anyone else lifting their hands and saying, I'm inside the law so I'm not responsible(appropriate speed in appropriate conditions), if it saves one life it'll be worth it.
Once last thought for you boys without kids, (other people are taking the responsibility from you ) Its us who are providing the folks so that when you need a Doctor or bus driver when your old, they are there. Maybe we should tax punters without kids double as they are not being socially responsible and providing adequately for the future....LOL

Regards
Cammy

PS Tiggers, you'll be a great catch for some young lady looking to start a family...I'd like to meet you a year after your first baby.

tiggers

cammy,

WHY NOT? If I am paying attention and driving at an appropriate speed (which maybe less than the posted limit) and can do nothing to avoid hitting the stupid little brat that decides to run across the road in front of me why the f**k should I take any responsibility. You said it yourself accidents do happen. If I am speeding or not paying attention then OK I am partly (at least) responsible, but not otherwise.

On the bigger picture why do cretins like you feel its everyone's duty to procreate. I am happily married and neither myself nor my wife want kids - it's our choice the same as it's yours to have them. Leave it at that. Your next post will probably accuse me of firing blanks and not being a proper man or some Neanderthal ****e like that.

I'd love to have a battle of wits with you, but hey, you're unarmed!

tiggers

DTurn

The reactions that are coming out in the posts are remarkably common in real life. To shorten the argument, any parent will blame the driver of the car, no ifs no buts no maybes. I'd love to agree with the posters who say that they wont feel too much responsibility if they do hit a kid (or anyone for that matter), but in my experience that just doesn't happen.

Those that don't feel any responsibility tend to be kids themselves. I've even had some suggest that as the person they killed was old and had a long life, then that was OK and as they had their whole life ahead of them they shouldn't be punished.

I reckon the advice in the Highway Code is spot on. It says that children will be impulsive and may run out without warning. BTW the Highway Code is the written legal definition of what makes a 'careful and competent driver'. In other words if you don't follow its advice and you have an accident, you are to blame. Forget whatever you feel is your own responsibility - at the end of the day the 12 people of the jury will be judging you, and most of them will be parents.

tiggers

Well that's OK then!

I guess if it happens to me I'll just have to accept I'm going down and leave it at that.

What a great country this is, remind me to f**king emigrate when I can afford it.

Regards,

tiggers.

Scooby_Maxus

Tiggers

Us "irresponsible" parents will pay, so long as you take Diablo with you!

tiggers

Scooby_Maxus,

You got yourself a deal my friend!!!

Couple of million should see us right!

Cheers,

tiggers.

Diablo

Tiggers m8, we tried...lol....

Camk, Pooper scooper, absolutely. Only thing worse than an irresponsible dog owner is an irresponsible parent

Anyway, bu66er this for a debate. Time for a new one methinks

Peace to all...lol

D