Is it about time to start my yearly winter tyres thread :D
29 October 2008, 11:23 PM
#32
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29 October 2008, 11:27 PM
#33
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Where are you located Iain?
That is not the English way to spell Ian so I guess you are in one of Englands colder countries like Wales or Schottland
That is not the English way to spell Ian so I guess you are in one of Englands colder countries like Wales or Schottland
29 October 2008, 11:33 PM
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Aye... currently living near Aberdeen... which is about as southerly as I've lived I think
Single track road that we live up regularly gets snowed in, with the road further up often 6 or 7ft deep in places (road goes across a hillside so it just fills in the road completely
)
Single track road that we live up regularly gets snowed in, with the road further up often 6 or 7ft deep in places (road goes across a hillside so it just fills in the road completely
)
29 October 2008, 11:52 PM
#36
You lot still don't get it do you!!!! SNOW HAS **** all to do with it !!!
winter tyres are winter tyre NOT SNOW tyres.
They have a higher silicon content and are softer and grippier on cold, wet, and slushy surfaces.
" I can't justify winter tyres the wife will kill me"
But can you justify a crashed car and the expense for new wheels, bumpers, body panels blah blah blah the inconvenience of an insuracne company arguing the toss or a hire car etc
It is ok I have insurance if I crash my car!!
woopee ******* do,you have insurance but you also have no car for a week whilst they fix your pig headed **** up, not to mention your hike in premium due to a claim for your pig headedness. All because you couldn't justify a few hundred quid for a set of steel wheels and winter tyres that will last you minimum of 5 years to the wife, who needed a new handbag and shoes.
PS this is not directed directly at the poster whose post I quoted.
winter tyres are winter tyre NOT SNOW tyres.
They have a higher silicon content and are softer and grippier on cold, wet, and slushy surfaces.
" I can't justify winter tyres the wife will kill me"
But can you justify a crashed car and the expense for new wheels, bumpers, body panels blah blah blah the inconvenience of an insuracne company arguing the toss or a hire car etc
It is ok I have insurance if I crash my car!!
woopee ******* do,you have insurance but you also have no car for a week whilst they fix your pig headed **** up, not to mention your hike in premium due to a claim for your pig headedness. All because you couldn't justify a few hundred quid for a set of steel wheels and winter tyres that will last you minimum of 5 years to the wife, who needed a new handbag and shoes.
PS this is not directed directly at the poster whose post I quoted.
30 October 2008, 12:04 AM
#37
well i do understand what ur sayin but no need to swear, plus my wife isnt really a handbag and shoes kind of girl and most of my spare money goes on my kids anyways i digress
i understand what winter tyres are and why to get them but this is how the convo will go like this:
wife- what you doing?
me- gonna order some winter tyres
wife- why?
me- scoobynet says so or ill crash in a ball of flames and we will all perish
wife- did u have some last winter and the winter b4 that and come to think of it we have been together 13 years and you have never had winter tyres. how much are they?
me- about £500 but they will last a good few winters
wife- buy them and u wont see end of this winter
me- point taken.
if i do crash and die in a terrible fireball ill let you say told you so
i understand what winter tyres are and why to get them but this is how the convo will go like this:
wife- what you doing?
me- gonna order some winter tyres
wife- why?
me- scoobynet says so or ill crash in a ball of flames and we will all perish
wife- did u have some last winter and the winter b4 that and come to think of it we have been together 13 years and you have never had winter tyres. how much are they?
me- about £500 but they will last a good few winters
wife- buy them and u wont see end of this winter
me- point taken.
if i do crash and die in a terrible fireball ill let you say told you so
30 October 2008, 03:12 AM
#39
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Ok, "winter tyres" are a load of rubbish, are they like tyres which you need for a chilly day? I drive on Advan Neovas from spring until the end of Autumn, when the roads go from damp, to dry, then back to damp.....
THEN, as soon as the roads start to freeze, and get snow on them, I change to "studless" snow tyres, which are designed to drive on icey and snowy surfaces.... These "snow" tyres can also be used throughout the whole year, they dont grip at all compared to my neovas (obviously)....
Also, as mentioned, a lot of my mates who are rally drivers, they all stick snow rally tyres on their normal cars for the winter season.
In the UK, only people in scotland, or places where the snow settles for more than one day, would benefit from snow tyres. Everyone else, well, if youre silly enough to go driving fast on a day when it has snowed, then its your own fault. Normal summer tyres that have the legal amount of grip will suffice, for the amount of snow that people get in the UK lol.
When I was younger, it snowed one day, and my dad took me to the train station to go to school...... in his w124 mercedes..... rwd, with normal tyres. He made it there and back, up and down hills, drove sensibly and made it home in one piece
THEN, as soon as the roads start to freeze, and get snow on them, I change to "studless" snow tyres, which are designed to drive on icey and snowy surfaces.... These "snow" tyres can also be used throughout the whole year, they dont grip at all compared to my neovas (obviously)....
Also, as mentioned, a lot of my mates who are rally drivers, they all stick snow rally tyres on their normal cars for the winter season.
In the UK, only people in scotland, or places where the snow settles for more than one day, would benefit from snow tyres. Everyone else, well, if youre silly enough to go driving fast on a day when it has snowed, then its your own fault. Normal summer tyres that have the legal amount of grip will suffice, for the amount of snow that people get in the UK lol.
When I was younger, it snowed one day, and my dad took me to the train station to go to school...... in his w124 mercedes..... rwd, with normal tyres. He made it there and back, up and down hills, drove sensibly and made it home in one piece
30 October 2008, 06:29 AM
#40
this is what im trying to say, yeh winter tyres are useful and if u can afford then why not but i dont think its essential, seems like another prime the oil filter comment.
my mate sall have performance cars and they have never used winter tyres and they all still breath
my mate sall have performance cars and they have never used winter tyres and they all still breath
30 October 2008, 10:44 AM
#41
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Yeah, yeah, the same old arguments!!!!
djmisio85 - you think winter tyres are rubbish! Well, by the sounds of your climate they probably are, but in milder climates like the UK they are fantastic!
phil_wrx - how is it so much more expensive to run winter tyres? You either have the outlay of new wheels (I bet 90% of people on here are not on the original rims anyway!) or you have a small cost to refit the summer or winter tyres each time. You're not travelling any more miles per year so the amount of rubber you wear is the same. The fact that you are wearing out two sets of tyres simultaneously just means that both sets last twice as long. There is an initial forward cost of getting the winters in the first place, but overall your tyre budget doesn't change!
The main issue here is that saying you the difference in performance is not worth it is a load of cr@p when you've never even tried them. You may notice that everyone here who has tried them now swears by them! Do you thing we are all so wrong?
djmisio85 - you think winter tyres are rubbish! Well, by the sounds of your climate they probably are, but in milder climates like the UK they are fantastic!
phil_wrx - how is it so much more expensive to run winter tyres? You either have the outlay of new wheels (I bet 90% of people on here are not on the original rims anyway!) or you have a small cost to refit the summer or winter tyres each time. You're not travelling any more miles per year so the amount of rubber you wear is the same. The fact that you are wearing out two sets of tyres simultaneously just means that both sets last twice as long. There is an initial forward cost of getting the winters in the first place, but overall your tyre budget doesn't change!
The main issue here is that saying you the difference in performance is not worth it is a load of cr@p when you've never even tried them. You may notice that everyone here who has tried them now swears by them! Do you thing we are all so wrong?
30 October 2008, 07:27 PM
#42
at no point did i say they aint a good thing just that i (myself) cant justify spending £132 for winter tyres when i have never needed them before. i only keep my cars 3 years then change, i dont do track daysn and the scoob covers 4000,5000 miles a year so i would only use 2 sets of tyres.
not saying winter tyres are crap in fact i think there a good idea if you do lots of miles or really push the car all the time but they aint a solution for me.
my PFF7's came on the car too so no spare set
not saying winter tyres are crap in fact i think there a good idea if you do lots of miles or really push the car all the time but they aint a solution for me.
my PFF7's came on the car too so no spare set
30 October 2008, 08:11 PM
#43
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No need to pay £500 for a set. There's loads on E'bay, being sold by folk that cannot foresee ever going skiing again.
Pirelli Snowsport are utterly , utterly brilliant in rain , snow, sleet, hail and ice! Way better than michelin alpin pa2's, if anyone's wondering.
Pirelli Snowsport are utterly , utterly brilliant in rain , snow, sleet, hail and ice! Way better than michelin alpin pa2's, if anyone's wondering.
01 November 2008, 12:53 PM
#44
hi guys,
sorry to bring up what appears to be a contraversal subject but one reason i have never got winter tryes before is because i have been told that they are too soft for when the road is dry and cold and wear out very very quickly making them useless when it is wet, snowy, icy etc.
is this the case? are winter tryes suitable for cold but dry roads??
also which winter tyres are regarded as the best for overall performance and wearabilty??
and finally storage, as i don't have a spare set of alloys would the tryes remain ok when just left removed from the rim in the shed during the summer months?? may sound a silly queustion but just want to know if the tyres would deform out of shape etc whilst not being fitted to an alloy. or is it best to store the tyres on a rim??
sorry to bring up what appears to be a contraversal subject but one reason i have never got winter tryes before is because i have been told that they are too soft for when the road is dry and cold and wear out very very quickly making them useless when it is wet, snowy, icy etc.
is this the case? are winter tryes suitable for cold but dry roads??
also which winter tyres are regarded as the best for overall performance and wearabilty??
and finally storage, as i don't have a spare set of alloys would the tryes remain ok when just left removed from the rim in the shed during the summer months?? may sound a silly queustion but just want to know if the tyres would deform out of shape etc whilst not being fitted to an alloy. or is it best to store the tyres on a rim??
02 November 2008, 12:29 PM
#45
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Winter tyres typically work best under about 7 degrees Celsius (as is claimed by manufactures). The reason for this is they have a high silicon content. They will wear quicker than normal tyres in temps above this but at temps under 7 degrees they give tremendous amounts of grip where normal summer tyres have become hard.
They also have hundreds of little zig zag lines across the blocks of rubber to give grip on slippery surfaces and large tread patterns to clear snow and water.
I think it is a common misconception (especially on SN) that you only need them for snow. This is untrue, they are mainly for very low temps, but also are a necessity if you are driving on slippery roads where chains are out of the question (motorways, etc).
To give an idea of the difference. I drove home on my summers on Wednesday evening when there was a light snow falling. The temp was hovering around 1 degree. On what appeared to be a normal wet road I could get wheel spin in 3rd which is impossible in normal wet conditions (even after Bob Rawles best efforts). That night I put my winter tyres on and the next morning I woke to 50cm of fresh snow and drove to work happily without any problems. This would have NOT been possible with summers. Coming home the roads were wet, the temps about 1 degree and no matter how much right foot I used, I couldn't get wheel spin.
I agree with most peeps on here that in Southern England they are not really worth it. If you spend most of winter driving in temps above 7 degrees they will wear quickly as will they driving at 70mph on a motorway in high temps BUT if you live in an area where you drive a lot in cold temps, I would recommend them just for the safety aspect. If you wear a set out in 15,000 miles it might seem a bit excessive but that one time they grip when you would have crossed the lane into oncoming traffic or trees would (IMHO) make it worthwhile.
I have summer and winter tyres but buy the same amount of rubber over the life of my car. I used the same rims for 4 years and the tyres withstood a change every 6 months. They usually only last 2 season (or 2 years) as would normal rubber.
If you can afford it I would recommend the Pirelli winter sports. Vredestein are also a good tyre (with the W pattern).
Hope this helps
They also have hundreds of little zig zag lines across the blocks of rubber to give grip on slippery surfaces and large tread patterns to clear snow and water.
I think it is a common misconception (especially on SN) that you only need them for snow. This is untrue, they are mainly for very low temps, but also are a necessity if you are driving on slippery roads where chains are out of the question (motorways, etc).
To give an idea of the difference. I drove home on my summers on Wednesday evening when there was a light snow falling. The temp was hovering around 1 degree. On what appeared to be a normal wet road I could get wheel spin in 3rd which is impossible in normal wet conditions (even after Bob Rawles best efforts). That night I put my winter tyres on and the next morning I woke to 50cm of fresh snow and drove to work happily without any problems. This would have NOT been possible with summers. Coming home the roads were wet, the temps about 1 degree and no matter how much right foot I used, I couldn't get wheel spin.
I agree with most peeps on here that in Southern England they are not really worth it. If you spend most of winter driving in temps above 7 degrees they will wear quickly as will they driving at 70mph on a motorway in high temps BUT if you live in an area where you drive a lot in cold temps, I would recommend them just for the safety aspect. If you wear a set out in 15,000 miles it might seem a bit excessive but that one time they grip when you would have crossed the lane into oncoming traffic or trees would (IMHO) make it worthwhile.
I have summer and winter tyres but buy the same amount of rubber over the life of my car. I used the same rims for 4 years and the tyres withstood a change every 6 months. They usually only last 2 season (or 2 years) as would normal rubber.
If you can afford it I would recommend the Pirelli winter sports. Vredestein are also a good tyre (with the W pattern).
Hope this helps
Last edited by swaussie; 02 November 2008 at 12:32 PM.
02 November 2008, 12:44 PM
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Further to my post above: about wear rates. I think it would be very comparable to the F1 with their hard and soft compounds (silicon might be how they change the compounds there as well). With hard tyres they will get about 20 laps before the tyre wears out, with the softs, they will get about 15 laps. This would be comparable to summer and winter tyres. In normal conditions you might get 20,000 miles for a set of summer tyres, using winter tyres all year round might see you get 15,000 miles out of them.
02 November 2008, 11:07 PM
#48
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To suggest we should all fit Winter tyres and benefit by doing so is crazy. In the South East where I live the weather might often be crap but it's not often anywhere near freezing most of the Winter, so what's the point. I'm certainly not going to invest in Winter tyres/wheels for perhaps 5-10 days a year where they might actually be an improvement over what I have on now, I'll just take it easier on those days.
Were I in Scotland say, or 'oop North, then that would be a different story.
I work for a German company based in Saxony and they all change to Winter tyres about now, but then Winter can be severe over there, and if you have an accident and don't have Winter tyres fitted the insurance claim will be affected in many cases.
Horses for courses. The fact that people fit them in Germany, Switzerland or wherever and think they're great doesn't make you an ignorant prat if you don't fit them here.
Kevin
Were I in Scotland say, or 'oop North, then that would be a different story.
I work for a German company based in Saxony and they all change to Winter tyres about now, but then Winter can be severe over there, and if you have an accident and don't have Winter tyres fitted the insurance claim will be affected in many cases.
Horses for courses. The fact that people fit them in Germany, Switzerland or wherever and think they're great doesn't make you an ignorant prat if you don't fit them here.
Kevin
03 November 2008, 08:19 AM
#49
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To suggest we should all fit Winter tyres and benefit by doing so is crazy. In the South East where I live the weather might often be crap but it's not often anywhere near freezing most of the Winter, so what's the point. I'm certainly not going to invest in Winter tyres/wheels for perhaps 5-10 days a year where they might actually be an improvement over what I have on now, I'll just take it easier on those days.
Were I in Scotland say, or 'oop North, then that would be a different story.
I work for a German company based in Saxony and they all change to Winter tyres about now, but then Winter can be severe over there, and if you have an accident and don't have Winter tyres fitted the insurance claim will be affected in many cases.
Horses for courses. The fact that people fit them in Germany, Switzerland or wherever and think they're great doesn't make you an ignorant prat if you don't fit them here.
Kevin
Were I in Scotland say, or 'oop North, then that would be a different story.
I work for a German company based in Saxony and they all change to Winter tyres about now, but then Winter can be severe over there, and if you have an accident and don't have Winter tyres fitted the insurance claim will be affected in many cases.
Horses for courses. The fact that people fit them in Germany, Switzerland or wherever and think they're great doesn't make you an ignorant prat if you don't fit them here.
Kevin
Swaussie was a little misleading in his post above. Winter tyres are designed to work up to about 14 degrees. Summer tyres are designed to work above 8 degrees. So between 8 and 14 degrees there is an overlap where either tyre is OK.
Once again, its nothing to do with snow or really cold temperatures but for normal central European winter driving. Some of us may live in Germany or Switzerland, but we're British and are all too familiar with the average British winter! There's also plenty of people living in the UK who swear by them! Once you've tried them you will always fit them!
03 November 2008, 12:35 PM
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Set of lightly scratched alloys off ebay £160 - if it snows bad snow chains will wreck them anyway.
Costco - Michelin Alpine - deal for 4
Kwik fit £5 to £10 to swap wheels
Drive to Alps - ski
Costco - Michelin Alpine - deal for 4
Kwik fit £5 to £10 to swap wheels
Drive to Alps - ski
21 January 2009, 12:25 PM
#51
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Read this article this morning and though it would be interesting to renew this discussion!
Sheet ice crashes close busy road
Been a pretty hard winter so far!
So how many people have changed their minds about how worthwhile winter tyres are in the UK?
How many people have had trips to the bodyshop after skidding on ice/snow and how much has it cost them?
How many people actually took the advice and fitted winter tyres? What do think of them?
Sheet ice crashes close busy road
Been a pretty hard winter so far!
So how many people have changed their minds about how worthwhile winter tyres are in the UK?
How many people have had trips to the bodyshop after skidding on ice/snow and how much has it cost them?
How many people actually took the advice and fitted winter tyres? What do think of them?
21 January 2009, 12:50 PM
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Read this article this morning and though it would be interesting to renew this discussion!
Sheet ice crashes close busy road
Been a pretty hard winter so far!
So how many people have changed their minds about how worthwhile winter tyres are in the UK?
How many people have had trips to the bodyshop after skidding on ice/snow and how much has it cost them?
How many people actually took the advice and fitted winter tyres? What do think of them?
Sheet ice crashes close busy road
Been a pretty hard winter so far!
So how many people have changed their minds about how worthwhile winter tyres are in the UK?
How many people have had trips to the bodyshop after skidding on ice/snow and how much has it cost them?
How many people actually took the advice and fitted winter tyres? What do think of them?
When you slip on sheet ice, there is nothing you can do, no ,matter what tyres you have on (apart from studded ones of course). As for snow, as we have discovered, the best tyres on snow are "snow tyres", otherwise known as studless tyres....
If you drive sensibly during the winter months, normal tyres are just fine. Sure, maybe you can go a little faster with "winter" tyres when the temperature is below 7c..... anything above 7c or below zero..... well, drive sensibly is all I can say, we cant depend 100% on our tyres, especially when the roads are freezing...
21 January 2009, 01:02 PM
#54
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My new years resolution is to stop preaching to the heathen hun that will not be convereted and know better! so I will stop my quest forthwith and never mention the subject again. I know when I am beaten and will bow out gracefully.
21 January 2009, 01:11 PM
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Not with "winter-tyres-only-effective-below-7-degrees-C", but I do have 3 years of experience with "studless tyres".... And dont try telling me that studless tyres arent made for driving on ice..... my current tyres are even called "Ice Guard".....
Most often than not, where you have snow, you have ice....
Ok, so maybe the winter/studless tyres have a "minimal" advantage over summer tyres, due to the silicon content and softness etc, but it is very minimal.
Big difference driving on sheet ice(like where I live).... and on frost(like the UK).... I know, Ive slipped on sheet ice before, with both normal tyres and studless tyres, to be honest, both times the slip felt the same, and I wasnt even going fast (thank God, cos I would have totalled my car)
Most often than not, where you have snow, you have ice....
Ok, so maybe the winter/studless tyres have a "minimal" advantage over summer tyres, due to the silicon content and softness etc, but it is very minimal.
Big difference driving on sheet ice(like where I live).... and on frost(like the UK).... I know, Ive slipped on sheet ice before, with both normal tyres and studless tyres, to be honest, both times the slip felt the same, and I wasnt even going fast (thank God, cos I would have totalled my car)
21 January 2009, 01:43 PM
#56
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A little more info for all the sceptics out there.
UK winter tyre benefits consumers - UK car accidents caused by winter skidding
Personally would never run all-season tyres all year round, simply not good enough (have spent a lot of time working in Germany, France, Switzerland and Sweden and know better). You never know when you are going to need those extra few feet of stopping distance.
A quick question... how many of you out there have re-moulds on their cars...and why not?!? I would say because you know they are generally cr@p and there are better solutions out there for only a few more ££'s well that the case with std vs winter tyres also, they just offer you much more safety. I agree with people...I have insurance but that covers the car as a reactive measure, but winter tyres offer proactive safety for my family. If I was involved in an accident and someone was injured just because I hadn't fitted winter tyres Id be most upset.
It never fails to amaze me how much money people spent on cars/mods and then fit rubbish tyres. The whole car depends on that very tiny contact patch provided by those tyres, nothing works properly without those tyres. Brakes, steering etc... everything. Your tyre choice is the most critical decision you could make for your car & your safety.
UK winter tyre benefits consumers - UK car accidents caused by winter skidding
Personally would never run all-season tyres all year round, simply not good enough (have spent a lot of time working in Germany, France, Switzerland and Sweden and know better). You never know when you are going to need those extra few feet of stopping distance.
A quick question... how many of you out there have re-moulds on their cars...and why not?!? I would say because you know they are generally cr@p and there are better solutions out there for only a few more ££'s well that the case with std vs winter tyres also, they just offer you much more safety. I agree with people...I have insurance but that covers the car as a reactive measure, but winter tyres offer proactive safety for my family. If I was involved in an accident and someone was injured just because I hadn't fitted winter tyres Id be most upset.
It never fails to amaze me how much money people spent on cars/mods and then fit rubbish tyres. The whole car depends on that very tiny contact patch provided by those tyres, nothing works properly without those tyres. Brakes, steering etc... everything. Your tyre choice is the most critical decision you could make for your car & your safety.
Last edited by stiler83; 21 January 2009 at 01:49 PM.
21 January 2009, 01:53 PM
#57
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Winter tyres are not ONLY effective below 7 degrees! The optimal operating temperature of winter tyres is usually upto 14 degrees, whereas the optimal operating temperature of summer tyres is above 8 degrees!
Between 8 and 14 degrees, there is an overlap where either tyre will perform to a similar level. Above 14 degrees, the summer tyre will be clearly better, while below 8 degrees the winter tyre will be better!
The advantage is not limited to just driving on snow and ice, but generally in all conditions, particularly when its wet and greasy like in the UK!
I can assure you the difference between summer and winter tyres is definitely not "minimal".
When you have some experience of driving the same car in UK conditions with both Winter and Summer tyres, then perhaps you can make some informed comments!
Between 8 and 14 degrees, there is an overlap where either tyre will perform to a similar level. Above 14 degrees, the summer tyre will be clearly better, while below 8 degrees the winter tyre will be better!
The advantage is not limited to just driving on snow and ice, but generally in all conditions, particularly when its wet and greasy like in the UK!
I can assure you the difference between summer and winter tyres is definitely not "minimal".
When you have some experience of driving the same car in UK conditions with both Winter and Summer tyres, then perhaps you can make some informed comments!
21 January 2009, 01:54 PM
#58
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A little more info for all the sceptics out there.
UK winter tyre benefits consumers - UK car accidents caused by winter skidding
Personally would never run all-season tyres all year round, simply not good enough (have spent a lot of time working in Germany, France, Switzerland and Sweden and know better). You never know when you are going to need those extra few feet of stopping distance.
A quick question... how many of you out there have re-moulds on their cars...and why not?!? I would say because you know they are generally cr@p and there are better solutions out there for only a few more ££'s well that the case with std vs winter tyres also, they just offer you much more safety. I agree with people...I have insurance but that covers the car as a reactive measure, but winter tyres offer proactive safety for my family. If I was involved in an accident and someone was injured just because I hadn't fitted winter tyres Id be most upset.
It never fails to amaze me how much money people spent on cars/mods and then fit rubbish tyres. The whole car depends on that very tiny contact patch provided by those tyres, nothing works properly without those tyres. Brakes, steering etc... everything. Your tyre choice is the most critical decision you could make for your car & your safety.
UK winter tyre benefits consumers - UK car accidents caused by winter skidding
Personally would never run all-season tyres all year round, simply not good enough (have spent a lot of time working in Germany, France, Switzerland and Sweden and know better). You never know when you are going to need those extra few feet of stopping distance.
A quick question... how many of you out there have re-moulds on their cars...and why not?!? I would say because you know they are generally cr@p and there are better solutions out there for only a few more ££'s well that the case with std vs winter tyres also, they just offer you much more safety. I agree with people...I have insurance but that covers the car as a reactive measure, but winter tyres offer proactive safety for my family. If I was involved in an accident and someone was injured just because I hadn't fitted winter tyres Id be most upset.
It never fails to amaze me how much money people spent on cars/mods and then fit rubbish tyres. The whole car depends on that very tiny contact patch provided by those tyres, nothing works properly without those tyres. Brakes, steering etc... everything. Your tyre choice is the most critical decision you could make for your car & your safety.
21 January 2009, 02:06 PM
#60
Scooby Senior
