think this started with a remark about an engine having liners by someone who builds high horsepower drag race engines so there is a link in the distance somewhere,
anyway regardless of the dragracing my other love is fast scoobys so lets get back to them unless you are having your liners rifled

 

my point exactly

 

Although many think Sleeving is a bombproof solution to the 2.5, I am not convinced, Below is a pic of a recently blown Linered block on a car running less than 500 of each.

 

That looks like the engineering is to blame.
Also to Add the EJ257 Walls are pretty thin to start with.
Personally I wouldn't take an EJ257 block linered or not beyond 500 of each.

I'm fairly certain that 2.0L CDB blocks sleeved to 2.2 (2.33/5) and to 2.5L will be an awful lot stronger.

Atleast that's what I'm hoping if and when I get mine finished. At the moment its a big IF too

 

Oh I didnt realise that Area 52 had a Tuner Entry into TA. If you are referring to me then that is a different subject but points dont prove an ability to build big power engines. My car was 465 on pump fuel and has had no engine issues and ably coped with 140 laps of Brands on Monday without a murmur of complaint.

What dyno is that on Zak?

I am suprised you dont get more power/torque than that by breaking the Time Attack rules on allowed fuels by running 30% methanol/Toulene.

 

I think it's safe to say that any picture of your car would deem it an 'Area52' car, this is said in the same vane that I would say that Kev's car is a 'Scoobyclinic' car and Dill's car is a 'Team Monkfish' car, afterall this is what is clearly displayed in large font on the side of the aforementioned cars.

Why ask me a question that you clearly know the answer to
You know very well that my figures are obtained from Deltadash's Road Dyno function whilst conducting tests on the same stretch of road, under the same conditions that I measure all other Subaru ECU'd cars. This ensures I have a clearly defined database of repeatable results for each and every car I have mapped, including yours, and as you well know these are often pretty conservative figures. Each and everytime my car has been run on a dyno it has produced higher numbers than the numbers produced under my own testing.
My STi with 6speed is tested in 4th gear from 1500rpm right through to the redline, for my car I use the pre-programmed weight of a Newage STi at 1600kgs yet with myself and just under half a tank of fuel weighs some 1700kgs - weighbridge measured - and this does not include all the toot in my car My everyday map with intact tubular headers produces 373bhp x 414ftlbs at the wheels which using my normal correction factor equates to around 430bhp and 480ftlbs at the flywheel. My car as run at Brands Hatch had standard Subaru headers/uppipe, due to a failed set of aftermarket headers, as a result boost had to be lowered accordingly resulting in torque and horsepower outputs significantly less than I run on the road - a little under 400bhp/400ftlbs, I'll let you do the math on the power to weight ratio. This is also less than I have run at previous Time Attack rounds. Engine output is always reduced for track use due to the higher thermal load and my standard top mounted intercooler but afterall it is my everyday, responsive_and_fairly_quick road car, sub 10s to 100mph, that just happens to go round corners quite well. This is the very same reason that I have decided against running higher spring/damper rates for TA, I want to show what a true road car can really do out there with a few carefully choosen mods. Remember my car at Donnington still ran the standard 2.0ltr engine.

I can catagorically state that I do not, and have not run a 30% mix of anything when competing in the Time Attack. I may well use this on the road, and track from time to time, and I guess this is how the rumour mill spawned. My thanks go out to all concerned
Besides I understood the use of fuel additives was fair game

May be I'm wrong here but I get the impression that you think I am playing down my car; are you still trying to work out why I was able to pull away from you at Knockhill? I have no idea why.
The freshly built engine was still being run-in and due to this the MD321T was only being run at 1.4bar. Combined with a lack of AVCS, I was left scratching my head too

 

No - not getting to that Zak. The extra speed up the straight was down to traction out of the hairpin. I struggled to get any grip down as was sideways out of the hairpin most times, subsequently losing that speed all up the hill. This issue has now been solved through work on testing and development.

The OP was about Big Power engine build reliability for which Area 52 are proven yet you seem to think they are not. For mine to handle 140 laps of testing at Brand Hatch (including 30 full on laps by Phil Glew in it) on Monday without using one drop of water or oil is testament to the build quality. Sure it isnt running 550-600 but it is at the high end of what could be useable on the road. Last dyno at 465bhp at Zen (with the 8cm FP Green on Tesco 99 with no additives or octane booster) but has pushed on since then with datalogs indicating that 500bhp is pretty close on the FP HTA Green again with no additives or octane booster.

The WR1 that frayz mentions built by Area 52 Autosport was 550 bhp (Dyno Dynamics) on 95 ron fuel and built to cope with very high ambient temperatures - this is much more stressful than a UK car dealing with our cold.

I would also argue that the OP shouldnt be aiming to 550-600 - it doesnt make for a nice car to drive IMO.

 

How was yours to drive on the road when it was at the 480bhp mark?

 

It is very rapid but arguably harder to drive fast than having 300-350 where you could put your foot down. 450 + and full throttle on A & B roads almost become an impossibility - still good fun trying though when dry but the road runs out very quickly.

 

Interesting. Maybe i should look at going to about 450/450 in that case with a possibility of going up a bit should i decide on the hillclimb route

 

450/450 can be done on the 2.5 very easily.

 

May stick with that kind of power then. For now

 

450/450 2.5 makes for a devastatingly quick road car...

 

The question is, how deep are your pockets and how reliable do you want it to be?

I have a Cosworth 2.5L engine in my Spec C (see the ScoobyNet Project Car articles here for full info https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...oduction.html). The engine has been absolutely, and I mean absolutely reliable so far. Running well over 500 of each on pump fuel, and has just clicked over 8000miles since the build. The car engine has seen 40+ standing starts, has competed in ScoobyLive 2007, 2008, TOTB 2007 and various track days (it is on track tomorrow at Dono) since the build.

It is possible, but don't let anyone tell you it is cheap.... it is not. A proper engine build will not be cheap and you can EASILY spend as much again (and some) on anxillaries and other bits.

As quite rightly pointed out, for a road car this is too much power imho. Stick to 450bhp. If you have been out in a proper 450bhp car, you won't want anymore if it is for road use.

 

I havent been out in a scoob running 450+bhp yet,but if someone fancies giving me a spin in one i'll gladly accept

 

It may do in a classic shell but not in a newage one !! I run more than that and I think mine is too slow !!!

 

Steve,
Your running around 500bhp right (and all things being equal well over 500lbft)?! If that is not quick enough for the ROAD then your car can not be running as it should do, or you have the wrong turbo!

A real 500bhp (with the torque to match) is stupidly quick for a road car, whether it is a Classic or a Newage. I can reach double the legal speed limit without breaking a sweat and you think that aint quick enough!

 

It seems stock 2.0 lt closed deck block's liners are enough strong to handle too much power so why do they need to be sleeved? I have never seen a blown 2.0 CDB liners yet but seen Darton sleeves are moving on a EJ257.

Anyone have any experience about the power limit of seasoned EJ2xx closed deck block? I'm planning building one without sleeving it.

 

Shaun

The car is running really well If I were to boot it in B roads it would have me in a ditch My idea of fast is different to others

 

Anyone going to Rallyday in Castle Coombe running 450+bhp that i could have a face to face chat with? And possibly a spin

Calvin.

 

Someone very kindly took me out for my first spin in a approx 450 - 500bhp newage with a 2.35 and MD555 and all I can say is
Got that old adrenaline flowing like the first time I ever went out in a scoob. Don't know what speeds we were doing, but the tarmac was moving past pretty quick (gearchanges felt about 2.5 seconds apart)

 

Just really looking for an idea of hoe usable the power is

 

I am sure there will be a few that won't agree, but I would say 450bhp/450lb.ft would be a great road car in the dry if you are running a good turbo and the car has been well mapped. Just make sure the brakes and suspension are up to the task before you up the power.
What I will add, is that when I get to that sort of power level, I intend to have a low boost map for the winter (that much torque on cold and damp roads is asking for trouble IMO, unless you are very restrained with the accelerator pedal).

 

Well said Shaun....

 

Anyone sleeved one know why?