Webmaster - re. For sale section
10 January 2001, 01:11 PM
#32
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Hi Simon,
I was just getting a little aggreived listening some people actively inducing price war with no regards for the consequences to the people trying to make a living selling the item.
yet at the same time the proposed solutions seemed very restrictive and only pro 'money for the bbs' whilst restricting moderated group purchase which included banner ad placers lends itself to no price war, as each proposal from a dealer could be on an seperate item. No advertising for the proposed dealer therefore no impact to banner ad placers.
still over to webby dudeto sort out the hows and why nots now methinks.
I wasn't getting upset at any individuals, just loosing the plot briefly, sorry folks.
I'll give have another *** and calm down
I was just getting a little aggreived listening some people actively inducing price war with no regards for the consequences to the people trying to make a living selling the item.
yet at the same time the proposed solutions seemed very restrictive and only pro 'money for the bbs' whilst restricting moderated group purchase which included banner ad placers lends itself to no price war, as each proposal from a dealer could be on an seperate item. No advertising for the proposed dealer therefore no impact to banner ad placers.
still over to webby dudeto sort out the hows and why nots now methinks.
I wasn't getting upset at any individuals, just loosing the plot briefly, sorry folks.
I'll give have another *** and calm down
10 January 2001, 02:16 PM
#33
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Rich,
Just a quick point regarding plastic parts costing pence. Don't forget the substantial outlay (many many thousands of pounds) for tooling up costs! When your market is not as large as the Ford Fiesta/Escort market then the prices are going to be higher due to the necessary need to recover tooling costs.
Thanks,
M
Just a quick point regarding plastic parts costing pence. Don't forget the substantial outlay (many many thousands of pounds) for tooling up costs! When your market is not as large as the Ford Fiesta/Escort market then the prices are going to be higher due to the necessary need to recover tooling costs.
Thanks,
M
10 January 2001, 02:20 PM
#34
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ptholt,
Price wars are part of free trade. You realise that restricting free trade is illegal and tantamount to price-fixing don't you?
We shall see what gets implemented - but my guess is that it won't be any voting system as the length of your post above describing it proves!
Why are you against more group deals anyway? Surely the more choice there is the better. What's it got to do with not being able to afford it? I'm not forcing you to offer a deal or indeed buy something when a deal is offered.
Thanks,
M
Price wars are part of free trade. You realise that restricting free trade is illegal and tantamount to price-fixing don't you?
We shall see what gets implemented - but my guess is that it won't be any voting system as the length of your post above describing it proves!
Why are you against more group deals anyway? Surely the more choice there is the better. What's it got to do with not being able to afford it? I'm not forcing you to offer a deal or indeed buy something when a deal is offered.
Thanks,
M
10 January 2001, 02:53 PM
#35
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Just to join in, on this thread I think it absolutely goes against the nature of the BBS to blatantly advertise in posts - whether it be in the 'For Sale' forum, or anywhere else.
You can bet your bottom dollar that if any of the suppliers who pay good money for prime advertising space at the top of each forum were to start ranting about their products (above and beyond advice and technical discussion) there'd be a bigger furor than this topic.
If I was one of those who'd paid for ad-space, and saw unmoderated posts advertising products (and I don't see the difference between group discounts and normal sales) I'd be a bit miffed.
Let's be honest, £25 isn't a lot of money for a supplier - and I believe that it's possible for an advertiser to switch the actual banner graphic throughout the month(Simon?)? In which case, a constant ad, with the odd 'special offer' GIF running for a few days every now and again would be fine.
I remember back in the 'old days' when a password was required to advertise in the private for sale forum. Bear in mind that private in this case means "not trade", so trade ads shouldn't be in it - period.
Moderate 'em out, and if companies want to advertise to the (massive) captured audience of scoob enthusiasts we have here, then let 'em cough up £25 to counter Simon's costs....
I think it absolutely goes against the nature of the BBS to blatantly advertise in posts - whether it be in the 'For Sale' forum, or anywhere else.You can bet your bottom dollar that if any of the suppliers who pay good money for prime advertising space at the top of each forum were to start ranting about their products (above and beyond advice and technical discussion) there'd be a bigger furor than this topic.
If I was one of those who'd paid for ad-space, and saw unmoderated posts advertising products (and I don't see the difference between group discounts and normal sales) I'd be a bit miffed.
Let's be honest, £25 isn't a lot of money for a supplier - and I believe that it's possible for an advertiser to switch the actual banner graphic throughout the month(Simon?)? In which case, a constant ad, with the odd 'special offer' GIF running for a few days every now and again would be fine.
I remember back in the 'old days' when a password was required to advertise in the private for sale forum. Bear in mind that private in this case means "not trade", so trade ads shouldn't be in it - period.
Moderate 'em out, and if companies want to advertise to the (massive) captured audience of scoob enthusiasts we have here, then let 'em cough up £25 to counter Simon's costs....
10 January 2001, 03:02 PM
#36
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fair enough, as said above, i've said my piece and I can see as many holes in your arguements as you can in my solutions MK.
So i bow to your superior business knowledge and how to get the best for the community, the bbs and the users.
I never said i was against multiple group purchaes, i said it would be hard for most people to be involved in such a large number,
therefore if there was 5 running at any one time, would it dullute the numbers willing to purchase as they could not afford everthing they wanted. Whereas if we only had one running more people could join in, making it possible for greater discount as more people purchased, better for the dealers etc.
take amber as an example, lets say 25 out of 4000 bbs users purchased there lights, but if there were another five group purchases going on the same time, the number might not have hit the target required to get the discount anyway, so all the admin from dealers/bbs etc you were so worried about wasting is suddenly wasted because those 25 were split between between 5/6 other offers (although more may have been involved with the others, but would there be enough interest for any targets to be reached?)
swings and roundabouts, horses for courses etc.
I'm not going to waste anymore of my finger prints on the subject but will await with interest to see what happpens.
My offer of assistance is still open if the BBS needs it.
Makes you wonder what would have happened if the same thing had happened on IWOC......
[This message has been edited by ptholt (edited 10 January 2001).]
So i bow to your superior business knowledge and how to get the best for the community, the bbs and the users.
I never said i was against multiple group purchaes, i said it would be hard for most people to be involved in such a large number,
therefore if there was 5 running at any one time, would it dullute the numbers willing to purchase as they could not afford everthing they wanted. Whereas if we only had one running more people could join in, making it possible for greater discount as more people purchased, better for the dealers etc.
take amber as an example, lets say 25 out of 4000 bbs users purchased there lights, but if there were another five group purchases going on the same time, the number might not have hit the target required to get the discount anyway, so all the admin from dealers/bbs etc you were so worried about wasting is suddenly wasted because those 25 were split between between 5/6 other offers
(although more may have been involved with the others, but would there be enough interest for any targets to be reached?)swings and roundabouts, horses for courses etc.
I'm not going to waste anymore of my finger prints on the subject but will await with interest to see what happpens.
My offer of assistance is still open if the BBS needs it.
Makes you wonder what would have happened if the same thing had happened on IWOC......
[This message has been edited by ptholt (edited 10 January 2001).]
10 January 2001, 04:27 PM
#37
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Gary Foster:
<B> I fail to see why you have taken offence to my post ? I considered when writing it whether to put more information in - but thought (obviously in error) the issues were obvious ?
1) I have no beef with Amber / SCC or the rest of you over what you have posted in the past, there were no rules at the time and anyway Ambers post's were instigated by a Scoobynet member. I was not slagging off anyones actions thus far.
2) It has come to light that traders posting on the site may affect our advertisers, which then directly affects whether Scoobynet keeps running or gets shut down. This is obviously a problem and there needs to be a solution
3) The solution provided seems entirely fair to me, you buy a banner ad - you post on the board, what's the problem ? they aren't expensive and if your prices go up a couple of quid to cover, then frankly I don't care.
I will buy from 1) Firstly the Scoobyshop 2) An advertiser who is financially assisting with the running of Scoobynet. Besides which you'll only be 'competing' with other banner purchasers who have also made the outlay.
Gary[/quote]
Gary - with respect we entirely retract our comments earlier. they were not meant to offend it was just that your post popped up at the wronmg time and i mad a rash decision to reply
hopefully apology accepted.
cheers.
by the way we will mail the webmaster and start discussions about these banners etc.
if the package can work for us count us in
jason
<B> I fail to see why you have taken offence to my post ? I considered when writing it whether to put more information in - but thought (obviously in error) the issues were obvious ?
1) I have no beef with Amber / SCC or the rest of you over what you have posted in the past, there were no rules at the time and anyway Ambers post's were instigated by a Scoobynet member. I was not slagging off anyones actions thus far.
2) It has come to light that traders posting on the site may affect our advertisers, which then directly affects whether Scoobynet keeps running or gets shut down. This is obviously a problem and there needs to be a solution
3) The solution provided seems entirely fair to me, you buy a banner ad - you post on the board, what's the problem ? they aren't expensive and if your prices go up a couple of quid to cover, then frankly I don't care.
I will buy from 1) Firstly the Scoobyshop 2) An advertiser who is financially assisting with the running of Scoobynet. Besides which you'll only be 'competing' with other banner purchasers who have also made the outlay.
Gary[/quote]
Gary - with respect we entirely retract our comments earlier. they were not meant to offend it was just that your post popped up at the wronmg time and i mad a rash decision to reply
hopefully apology accepted.
cheers.
by the way we will mail the webmaster and start discussions about these banners etc.
if the package can work for us count us in
jason
10 January 2001, 05:03 PM
#38
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Jason
No problems here, I assume you thought I was having a pop at you ?, thats not what I meant in my post at all.
- The traders banner ads help pay for Scoobynet
- If all traders are free to post on Scoobynet ***** nilly, what's the point in paying for a banner ad ?
- Therefore Scoobynet loses funding, and if that means Scoobynet closes we all lose out
Not having a go at anyone, I hadn't thought about this (as I suspect you didn't / everyone else) until it was raised by Sunil etc. Thats just the way I now see it now and why I offered my support to Simon.
Anyway, more to the point where are my Clear Lenses 
Gary
No problems here, I assume you thought I was having a pop at you ?, thats not what I meant in my post at all.
- The traders banner ads help pay for Scoobynet
- If all traders are free to post on Scoobynet ***** nilly, what's the point in paying for a banner ad ?
- Therefore Scoobynet loses funding, and if that means Scoobynet closes we all lose out
Not having a go at anyone, I hadn't thought about this (as I suspect you didn't / everyone else) until it was raised by Sunil etc. Thats just the way I now see it now and why I offered my support to Simon.
Anyway, more to the point where are my Clear Lenses
Gary
10 January 2001, 05:43 PM
#39
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The clear lense order is now well under way. We should ahve the MY99- on clear sides very soon. Those of you waiting for that combo should see them quite soon. As in a previous post we said we are to wait for the e-marked -99 lights then these will towards the end of the month.
any further queries let us know
cheers
jason / james
01582 572500
any further queries let us know
cheers
jason / james
01582 572500
10 January 2001, 05:46 PM
#40
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Interesting discussion, but a tough one ...
Just to add my 2 Eurocents to it ...
25 quid for a banner is not exactly big money. Remember that advertising is normally tax deductable, so in real money it probably costs 14 UKP per month to reach an audience of say 2000 regulars (I'm being conservative) ... 3 packs of cigs to reach your cible ... a *highly motivated* cible, ready to respond to lots of offers ... you would quit smoking for less
Let's not get all steamed up about this, I'm sure SDB can work something out that would benefit all parties.
One thing though: it might be an idea to have a sort of standard email at the ready (or a web page explaining how it works) for when a new company comes in and posts a commercial add. I'm sure most of them would consider a banner add (or whatever other scheme Scoobynet will offer in the future) if they had known for starters.
And maybe this would again be a good time to point to the companies that deserve a little pat now and then because they helped to restart Scoobynet only a few months ago :
Just to add my 2 Eurocents to it ...
25 quid for a banner is not exactly big money. Remember that advertising is normally tax deductable, so in real money it probably costs 14 UKP per month to reach an audience of say 2000 regulars (I'm being conservative) ... 3 packs of cigs to reach your cible ... a *highly motivated* cible, ready to respond to lots of offers ... you would quit smoking for less
Let's not get all steamed up about this, I'm sure SDB can work something out that would benefit all parties.
One thing though: it might be an idea to have a sort of standard email at the ready (or a web page explaining how it works) for when a new company comes in and posts a commercial add. I'm sure most of them would consider a banner add (or whatever other scheme Scoobynet will offer in the future) if they had known for starters.
And maybe this would again be a good time to point to the companies that deserve a little pat now and then because they helped to restart Scoobynet only a few months ago :
10 January 2001, 06:33 PM
#41
Hi All
I thought I should mention this.
Any discussions as to costs of advertising on scoobynet are confidential between scoobynet and the company who wishes to advertise.. but...
Where has this £25 come from?
I now have an inbox full of companies wanting to advertise for £25!
There are many options for advertisers on scoobynet, but there is no option that I know of that costs as little as £25.
It is interesting to mention that the *going rate* for advertising on the web on a site as targetted as scoobynet would work out at around £1000 PLUS per month for each advertiser for the amount of impressions they currently receive!!!! I have always steered away from this for the following reasons...
1) In order to get the mass of advertisers required you need to outsource the advertising to an agency. In return they require far too much control over the site, and I refuse to compromise scoobynet in that way.
2) Rather than a small selection of very appropriate supporters (like we have now), we would end up with a mass of general advertising.
3) Generally, the advertisers on ScoobyNet are as much a part of the community as we all are, so it would be a shame to force them out due to stupid pricing, etc.
Now most large sites rely on this level of income to sustain / make a profit from their sites. The removal of this makes the running of scoobynet all the more challenging, which is why it is so important that we make a success of things like the Shop, Clothing, CD, etc. It would be nice to just be able to sit back and let and agency take control and sort the lot out (and it's been tempting a few times!!).
There are many many options for advertising on scoobynet, so there is something to suit all pockets, but the minimum advertising order is £50, so the £25 charge is definitely not something we offer.
All the best
Simon
I thought I should mention this.
Any discussions as to costs of advertising on scoobynet are confidential between scoobynet and the company who wishes to advertise.. but...
Where has this £25 come from?
I now have an inbox full of companies wanting to advertise for £25!
There are many options for advertisers on scoobynet, but there is no option that I know of that costs as little as £25.
It is interesting to mention that the *going rate* for advertising on the web on a site as targetted as scoobynet would work out at around £1000 PLUS per month for each advertiser for the amount of impressions they currently receive!!!! I have always steered away from this for the following reasons...
1) In order to get the mass of advertisers required you need to outsource the advertising to an agency. In return they require far too much control over the site, and I refuse to compromise scoobynet in that way.
2) Rather than a small selection of very appropriate supporters (like we have now), we would end up with a mass of general advertising.
3) Generally, the advertisers on ScoobyNet are as much a part of the community as we all are, so it would be a shame to force them out due to stupid pricing, etc.
Now most large sites rely on this level of income to sustain / make a profit from their sites. The removal of this makes the running of scoobynet all the more challenging, which is why it is so important that we make a success of things like the Shop, Clothing, CD, etc. It would be nice to just be able to sit back and let and agency take control and sort the lot out (and it's been tempting a few times!!).
There are many many options for advertising on scoobynet, so there is something to suit all pockets, but the minimum advertising order is £50, so the £25 charge is definitely not something we offer.
All the best
Simon
10 January 2001, 07:42 PM
#42
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Havent had time to read the posts thoroughly, but 3 quick points (forgive me if i repeat something that has been said already or cleared up already)
1) Amber Performance - please be careful with your use of the word slander, especially when you mention my name in the same sentence.
2) 25 quid was probably? something i piped up as IIRC (and i usually do) this is what i was quoted for advertising my workplace on 22b. Of course that doesnt mean it is the same on Scoobynet and i apologise if this has caused greif for SDB. However, Simon, could it ever be that you could generate so many ads at such a low price that the quantity of takers would more than compensate.
3) P T Holt, your comments about group bulk buys are fair enough, but this doesnt help where such products cannot be offered or where the outlay is so large that there will never be a mass market for the product and this will discrimate against some companies and in favour of others.
Sunil
1) Amber Performance - please be careful with your use of the word slander, especially when you mention my name in the same sentence.
2) 25 quid was probably? something i piped up as IIRC (and i usually do) this is what i was quoted for advertising my workplace on 22b. Of course that doesnt mean it is the same on Scoobynet and i apologise if this has caused greif for SDB. However, Simon, could it ever be that you could generate so many ads at such a low price that the quantity of takers would more than compensate.
3) P T Holt, your comments about group bulk buys are fair enough, but this doesnt help where such products cannot be offered or where the outlay is so large that there will never be a mass market for the product and this will discrimate against some companies and in favour of others.
Sunil
10 January 2001, 09:04 PM
#43
Hi Sunil
No problem...
In terms of selling loads of ads at £25...
The problem with that is that the quality reduces so dramatically. Really it would be like throwing £25 away rather than investing in something worthwhile.
It's not just about "get money for scoobynet", it's about offering a service which represents value for money as well.
Otherwise we would just have gone down the subscription route or be asking for donations.
I am still confident that ScoobyNet will have a great 2001 and will have a strong financial footing within the next 6 months allowing us to set up all the great things we have planned for the latter part of the year.
Best regards and thanks for everyone's support!
Simon
No problem...
In terms of selling loads of ads at £25...
The problem with that is that the quality reduces so dramatically. Really it would be like throwing £25 away rather than investing in something worthwhile.
It's not just about "get money for scoobynet", it's about offering a service which represents value for money as well.
Otherwise we would just have gone down the subscription route or be asking for donations.
I am still confident that ScoobyNet will have a great 2001 and will have a strong financial footing within the next 6 months allowing us to set up all the great things we have planned for the latter part of the year.
Best regards and thanks for everyone's support!
Simon
11 January 2001, 09:05 AM
#48
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No comments about my <I>"sell some ScoobyShop window space for a percentage"</I> idea? 
Rich
[This message has been edited by RichS (edited 11 January 2001).]
Rich
[This message has been edited by RichS (edited 11 January 2001).]
11 January 2001, 09:55 AM
#49
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Hopefully we can put this one to bed now. We have been in discussion with Simon (the webmaster) for a couple of days now and it is likely that as soon as we can arrange for someone to design a banner for us and decide upon a rotational system that suits our needs we will proceed. It wiil be interesting to see if other companies recently involved in this subject make the same efforts. Remember we only became involved due to customer request.
Sunilp - slander may have been the wrong word but i am sure you can see why i was 'frustrated'as your information was grossly inaccurate and gave the impression that we were not prepared to pay to support our time on the site
regards
jason
Sunilp - slander may have been the wrong word but i am sure you can see why i was 'frustrated'as your information was grossly inaccurate and gave the impression that we were not prepared to pay to support our time on the site
regards
jason
11 January 2001, 10:45 AM
#50
Hi chaps
RichS
My apologies.. so much to discuss in this thread. It is a good idea. So good in-fact that we have been talking to suppliers about this for a few months
Seriously... thank you for your support and enthusiasm, I am sorry I forgot to mention this to you in a previous post.
-------------
I can confirm that Amber Performance are indeed very serious about advertising on ScoobyNet and finding a way to support us.
Best regards
Simon
RichS
My apologies.. so much to discuss in this thread. It is a good idea. So good in-fact that we have been talking to suppliers about this for a few months
Seriously... thank you for your support and enthusiasm, I am sorry I forgot to mention this to you in a previous post.
-------------
I can confirm that Amber Performance are indeed very serious about advertising on ScoobyNet and finding a way to support us.
Best regards
Simon
11 January 2001, 06:18 PM
#52
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Thanks for the comments guys.
PLease give us a little time , we need to have a banner designed and the chap we have in mind definitely belongs on your muppet section. Seriously he's a nice guy but may take a while. Then we will be straight back onto Simon to sort things out
in the meantime i'm going to be cheeky. I believe i have seen a post from Andy Tang on the board somewhere ref the twin lights you were interested in , this is now progressing along the same lines as the clear lamps so if anyone is interested help ANdy out by getting the numbers up and the prices down
cheers to you all
jason / james
01582 572500
PLease give us a little time , we need to have a banner designed and the chap we have in mind definitely belongs on your muppet section. Seriously he's a nice guy but may take a while. Then we will be straight back onto Simon to sort things out
in the meantime i'm going to be cheeky. I believe i have seen a post from Andy Tang on the board somewhere ref the twin lights you were interested in , this is now progressing along the same lines as the clear lamps so if anyone is interested help ANdy out by getting the numbers up and the prices down
cheers to you all
jason / james
01582 572500
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