'Budget' DIY Engine Rebuild
27 February 2009, 06:12 PM
#661
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Yes that's pretty much what I thought, that the bottom end is as good as it gets at the first startup and it's just a case of having oil getting round straight away.
As far as the full boost thing goes, I can't see what full boost is going to do that half boost won't. Either the engine is strong enough to take it - or it isn't (and will need a rebuild sooner rather than later). Might as well know straight away I reckon. I mean obviously you don't want to hammer the newly built lump in the first few miles, but it needs driving properly at some stage so why not just crack on, I say. This bottom end is supposed to be good for 500bhp with the right turbo, fuelling and map so I don't think 1.45 bar off a 16G is going to cane it too much LOL
Well, time will tell I guess!
As far as the full boost thing goes, I can't see what full boost is going to do that half boost won't. Either the engine is strong enough to take it - or it isn't (and will need a rebuild sooner rather than later). Might as well know straight away I reckon. I mean obviously you don't want to hammer the newly built lump in the first few miles, but it needs driving properly at some stage so why not just crack on, I say. This bottom end is supposed to be good for 500bhp with the right turbo, fuelling and map so I don't think 1.45 bar off a 16G is going to cane it too much LOL
Well, time will tell I guess!
27 February 2009, 07:16 PM
#662
...As far as the full boost thing goes, I can't see what full boost is going to do that half boost won't. Either the engine is strong enough to take it - or it isn't (and will need a rebuild sooner rather than later). Might as well know straight away I reckon. I mean obviously you don't want to hammer the newly built lump in the first few miles, but it needs driving properly at some stage so why not just crack on, I say....
06 March 2009, 12:08 AM
#663
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Update: just passed the 1000 mile mark, and there have been few incidents bar a split coolant hose, the one that drains out of the bottom of the header tank. That gave me a real scare when the car started generating clouds of steam! Fixed it with a plastic elbow joiner that I had knocking about, and half an hour of moving stuff around to get the pipe cut and rejoined. So basically, the engine is sound, no leaks, no issues, the 1000 mile running in period is over and it's filled up with the proper Silkolene Pro-S 15w50 now with a new filter, hopefully the last I'll need to buy for a while!
I've set everything back to normal - idle is smooth as silk and down from 1100 to 850, boost up to 1.45 bar, rev limit up to 7000 rpm. I'll take it fairly easy until the map tweak in a couple of weeks, but tbh it feels really strong already and is hitting 1 bar in 5th gear at 2800 rpm. The new Hybrid FMIC is nailing down charge temps much better than the Autobahn did, and that was already pretty good. Compressor surge seems noticeably less than the Autobahn as well. Highest injector duty I've had so far on my 440s at 3.5 bar is 71% with a charge temp of 3 degrees C earlier tonight, but as I say, I'm not pushing it really. Never seen knock out of the single figures yet, 6-8 seems to be the going rate, which is much better than the previous ****ty build which was always in the teens.
Will report again once the map's done...350bhp is the target!
I've set everything back to normal - idle is smooth as silk and down from 1100 to 850, boost up to 1.45 bar, rev limit up to 7000 rpm. I'll take it fairly easy until the map tweak in a couple of weeks, but tbh it feels really strong already and is hitting 1 bar in 5th gear at 2800 rpm. The new Hybrid FMIC is nailing down charge temps much better than the Autobahn did, and that was already pretty good. Compressor surge seems noticeably less than the Autobahn as well. Highest injector duty I've had so far on my 440s at 3.5 bar is 71% with a charge temp of 3 degrees C earlier tonight, but as I say, I'm not pushing it really. Never seen knock out of the single figures yet, 6-8 seems to be the going rate, which is much better than the previous ****ty build which was always in the teens.
Will report again once the map's done...350bhp is the target!
06 March 2009, 02:11 PM
#664
Beaudiful, excellent silent.
It's great when the knock doesn't get into the teens, isn't it?
I'll be joining you in the 350bhp stakes later on. Will be getting my WRX with its own rebuilt engine - STi 3/4 pistons; STi 9 rods; ACL 'Race Series' bearings all round - back from ZEN tomorrow
(yes, yes, I copped out by not doing it myself - which I wouldn't know how to, anyway 
). So big respect to yourself; much admiration from me. 
When I recover from the hit to my wallet - both real AND psychological! - it'll be straight up to harvey's for a Hybrid GT Spec and CAIK fitted... then 550s from Lateral and a remap from either ZEN or JGM...
It's great when the knock doesn't get into the teens, isn't it?
I'll be joining you in the 350bhp stakes later on. Will be getting my WRX with its own rebuilt engine - STi 3/4 pistons; STi 9 rods; ACL 'Race Series' bearings all round - back from ZEN tomorrow
(yes, yes, I copped out by not doing it myself - which I wouldn't know how to, anyway ). So big respect to yourself; much admiration from me. When I recover from the hit to my wallet - both real AND psychological! - it'll be straight up to harvey's for a Hybrid GT Spec and CAIK fitted... then 550s from Lateral and a remap from either ZEN or JGM
...
Last edited by joz8968; 06 March 2009 at 05:38 PM.
16 March 2009, 10:37 PM
#667
Silent, do you ever go to ZEN's at all?
I've just been looking at your Wagon and I remember being there - either last summer, but prob more like summer '07 (christ, my memory
) - and remember a black Wagon turn up and park outside their 1st unit, out on the road. It too had an unpainted HT Autos P1-style splitter on, just like your car!!!
It MUST have been you! lol
I've just been looking at your Wagon and I remember being there - either last summer, but prob more like summer '07 (christ, my memory
) - and remember a black Wagon turn up and park outside their 1st unit, out on the road. It too had an unpainted HT Autos P1-style splitter on, just like your car!!!It MUST have been you! lol
Last edited by joz8968; 16 March 2009 at 10:41 PM.
17 March 2009, 12:58 AM
#668
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Thread Starter
Yes I do go along once a year or so, usually for a map tweak when I've modded something. I'll be going over there this coming weekend actually, to get the 'final' mapping done. It does run fine on the current map but fuel economy's not great so it definitely needs a bit of tweaking done to the fuelling. This time I'll get a rolling road run done as well and see if I can hit my 350 target. Still not sure whether I'll map it on bio ethanol or not.
17 March 2009, 12:32 PM
#669
Well, you will have to commit to it if you do!
You have a PFC, so no multi-map facility (unlike Simtek, for example). The PFC can do 4 boost levels, but the basic map e.g. ignition timing, fuelling, etc. is the same on all 4 settings IIRC so, as mentioned, you've got to commit...
Yes, I'm approaching the latter half of the 1000m running in period... then when completed, proper oil/filter change and final remap at ZEN's too.
You have a PFC, so no multi-map facility (unlike Simtek, for example). The PFC can do 4 boost levels, but the basic map e.g. ignition timing, fuelling, etc. is the same on all 4 settings IIRC so, as mentioned, you've got to commit...
Yes, I'm approaching the latter half of the 1000m running in period... then when completed, proper oil/filter change and final remap at ZEN's too.
Last edited by joz8968; 17 March 2009 at 12:43 PM.
17 March 2009, 05:42 PM
#672
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Thread Starter
Hmmm, well I've now hit upon a further problem which I'm ****ing gutted about. It's now started smoking on startup - grey-white smoke that clears after 20 seconds or so. It's not condensation cos it drifts around the car and is clearly visible. What the hell is it? Water or oil getting somehow into the exhaust where it shouldn't?
Turbo oil seals? Valve stem seals? Help!
Turbo oil seals? Valve stem seals? Help!
22 March 2009, 08:28 PM
#673
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Thread Starter
FINAL NEWSFLASH!
The smoke problem was a sort of one-off, maybe caused by my catch tank getting full up with mayonnaise. AFter clearing it out, it seemed OK. I had a couple of leaks from the water header tank's drain pipe but fixed that with a new piece of right angle hose so that sorted that after a few scares with smoke pouring out of the bonnet!
Just got home from remapping at Zen over the weekend on Paul's rollers. I decided that what with it being a newly built engine and still only on the 16G with a standard API built gearbox, I'd stick to my optimistic 350bhp target with just straight V-Power, and leave E85 mix until later. I have no particular difficulty getting it, but it would be a bit of a pain to keep having to add it in on every fill up.
After a fair old session on the rollers with problems with a dodgy crank sensor causing a 'cough' over 6000rpm (now replaced) the final results came up as 346.2bhp @ 7060rpm and 308.2 lb/ft @ 4966 rpm, running 1.5 bar on the trusty old 16G. I am very very happy with that and it seems to be about as much as it's possible to get out of a TD05-16G on a 2 litre and pretty much spot on to my target. The power and torque curves are lovely and smooth with a big plateau of power in the upper rev range and a similar torque plateau from 4250 to 5500 where it's all above 300 lb/ft. I'm over the moon and it runs lovely!
Bring on the 'Ring trip at Easter!
The smoke problem was a sort of one-off, maybe caused by my catch tank getting full up with mayonnaise. AFter clearing it out, it seemed OK. I had a couple of leaks from the water header tank's drain pipe but fixed that with a new piece of right angle hose so that sorted that after a few scares with smoke pouring out of the bonnet!
Just got home from remapping at Zen over the weekend on Paul's rollers. I decided that what with it being a newly built engine and still only on the 16G with a standard API built gearbox, I'd stick to my optimistic 350bhp target with just straight V-Power, and leave E85 mix until later. I have no particular difficulty getting it, but it would be a bit of a pain to keep having to add it in on every fill up.
After a fair old session on the rollers with problems with a dodgy crank sensor causing a 'cough' over 6000rpm (now replaced) the final results came up as 346.2bhp @ 7060rpm and 308.2 lb/ft @ 4966 rpm, running 1.5 bar on the trusty old 16G. I am very very happy with that and it seems to be about as much as it's possible to get out of a TD05-16G on a 2 litre and pretty much spot on to my target. The power and torque curves are lovely and smooth with a big plateau of power in the upper rev range and a similar torque plateau from 4250 to 5500 where it's all above 300 lb/ft. I'm over the moon and it runs lovely!
Bring on the 'Ring trip at Easter!
Last edited by silent running; 22 March 2009 at 09:04 PM.
22 March 2009, 09:01 PM
#676
Yes, well done silent.
When i eventually gera FMIC, etc., I'll be very happy if I get a result similar to yours. Good stuff.
As Granby said, what was that smoking issue? I assume it went away or you/Zen sorted it?...
When i eventually gera FMIC, etc., I'll be very happy if I get a result similar to yours. Good stuff.
As Granby said, what was that smoking issue? I assume it went away or you/Zen sorted it?...
Last edited by joz8968; 22 March 2009 at 09:06 PM.
22 March 2009, 09:24 PM
#677
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Thread Starter
Before and after
Before:
After:
An interesting direct comparison is with 'at the wheels' figures. The run on the old cruddy engine with v1 WRX heads showed 244.3bhp @ roughly 6000rpm. Now on the new forged block with STi4 heads, plus lightweight pulleys and a Hybrid FMIC rather than Autobahn (no other physical changes) I'm seeing 307.3bhp @ 7000rpm - that's an incredible 63 wheel horse power from the new build. Before I would have been happy to have seen over 300bhp at the flywheel, now I'm getting over that at the tyres! It does feel really really quick, the big power shows at high speed/high gear where acceleration is effortless.
I love my car again!
After:
An interesting direct comparison is with 'at the wheels' figures. The run on the old cruddy engine with v1 WRX heads showed 244.3bhp @ roughly 6000rpm. Now on the new forged block with STi4 heads, plus lightweight pulleys and a Hybrid FMIC rather than Autobahn (no other physical changes) I'm seeing 307.3bhp @ 7000rpm - that's an incredible 63 wheel horse power from the new build. Before I would have been happy to have seen over 300bhp at the flywheel, now I'm getting over that at the tyres! It does feel really really quick, the big power shows at high speed/high gear where acceleration is effortless.
I love my car again!
28 August 2009, 10:45 AM
#679
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Very good figures, really glad this self build has worked out so well.. I'd love to have a go at this myself someday....
Just one thing, is there any reason why Paul ran on the dyno in 3rd gear, 4th is the usually preferred gear, as was used in your previous dyno run..? Interestingly, the rpm/mph figures are quoted as the same for both gears, surely that can't be right..???
On the road, assuming you have a boost gauge, where do you see 1 bar in 4th..?
I'd love to have a go at this myself someday....Just one thing, is there any reason why Paul ran on the dyno in 3rd gear, 4th is the usually preferred gear, as was used in your previous dyno run..? Interestingly, the rpm/mph figures are quoted as the same for both gears, surely that can't be right..???
On the road, assuming you have a boost gauge, where do you see 1 bar in 4th..?
28 August 2009, 01:02 PM
#680
With the Dastek dyno, you choose the gear you're going to run before you've actually run the car, so sometimes you start running it in 4th but end up calibrating it in 3rd to give a better balance of load and run time. Unfortunately it's difficult to then go back and change the "gear used" parameter so it appears correct on the dyno sheet.
I couldn't tell you which graph shows the correct gear, but they are the same in both cases.
I couldn't tell you which graph shows the correct gear, but they are the same in both cases.
28 August 2009, 04:08 PM
#681
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i have just read this full thread all the way through and it has taken nearly 3 hours!
awersome read! and quality job.
im following the foot steps already and already have my 2.5 ready to build! MYSELF!
AWERSOME :THUMB:
awersome read! and quality job.
im following the foot steps already and already have my 2.5 ready to build! MYSELF!
AWERSOME :THUMB:
28 August 2009, 08:49 PM
#682
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With the Dastek dyno, you choose the gear you're going to run before you've actually run the car, so sometimes you start running it in 4th but end up calibrating it in 3rd to give a better balance of load and run time. Unfortunately it's difficult to then go back and change the "gear used" parameter so it appears correct on the dyno sheet.
I couldn't tell you which graph shows the correct gear, but they are the same in both cases.
I couldn't tell you which graph shows the correct gear, but they are the same in both cases.
What do you charge for power runs, are there any dyno days coming up in the near future..?
29 August 2009, 10:03 AM
#685
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OK update time. Unfortunately, four days into our trip to Germany, I had an accident on a one-way public toll road in the Eifel Mountains, leaving very little of the engine bay or indeed, the engine. Car was a total loss but third party claim for the clearup and repair costs to the road are still underway. The engine build and map were brilliant, so driveable, flexible and outright fast. Turbo response was great all round and I am in no doubt that I did achieve what I wanted which was to deliver a maximum effort road engine off a little TD05 turbo at a genuine 350bhp. The STi 4 head conversion I did was definitely worth it by the way, even though it ended up being a major part of the cost of the build. Next time I'll find a slightly wider road to shake it down! And I know on a projects thread there won't be any keyboard 'track day' jockeys in here, but just in case, yes I have been to the 'Ring many times before in many different cars and as I found out after seven years of going, it's not a case of if you crash, it's when...
Now happily thrashing around in a S1 106 Rallye which is a mental car for £450, just needed a bit of TLC and a it's good to go - 40mpg, revs to 7200, red carpets and no soundproofing. And sounds like a sewing machine but I have to live with that.
May be back in a Subaru sometime in the future, mainly because I now have no fear of engine problems, I can just build another one!
Now happily thrashing around in a S1 106 Rallye which is a mental car for £450, just needed a bit of TLC and a it's good to go - 40mpg, revs to 7200, red carpets and no soundproofing. And sounds like a sewing machine but I have to live with that.
May be back in a Subaru sometime in the future, mainly because I now have no fear of engine problems, I can just build another one!
31 August 2009, 12:07 AM
#689
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Thread Starter
Too right. That's what I thought to myself as I watched the flames leaping from the engine bay out of the ambulance door... LOL well maybe I wasn't that pragmatic at the time, but I'm still alive and still driving - a car's just a thing at the end of the day. I can always get another one. Or build another engine.
