DO I NEED FPR ???
26 March 2008, 02:19 PM
#31
The last two posts by Tidgy and renno has caused me to ask this...
Here's my anticipated setup from tank forwards:-
- Walbro pump
- Std FPR (don't wanna buy uprated one if NOT ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY)
- Std injectors (380???)
- Apexi will be running 1.1bar of boost.
Will this setup be okay with the standard FPR?
If no, and the Walbro pump causes an issue for the std FPR, then would still keeping the std pump (and std FPR) be okay for 1.1bar of boost? (I'd sell on the Walbro...)
P.S. Also, I'd like to add that I'm running PP/ESL chip at 1.1bar... with NO fuel cuts whatsoever. So presumably, pump, FPR, coilpacks, plugs, etc. all working fine?
Here's my anticipated setup from tank forwards:-
- Walbro pump
- Std FPR (don't wanna buy uprated one if NOT ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY)
- Std injectors (380???)
- Apexi will be running 1.1bar of boost.
Will this setup be okay with the standard FPR?
If no, and the Walbro pump causes an issue for the std FPR, then would still keeping the std pump (and std FPR) be okay for 1.1bar of boost? (I'd sell on the Walbro...)
P.S. Also, I'd like to add that I'm running PP/ESL chip at 1.1bar... with NO fuel cuts whatsoever. So presumably, pump, FPR, coilpacks, plugs, etc. all working fine?
Last edited by joz8968; 26 March 2008 at 03:01 PM.
26 March 2008, 02:25 PM
#33
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dublin
Posts: 732
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would say you should be ok, the 380cc injectors are maxed at about 300bhp anyway. The only issue would be the Walbro over powering the standard regulator but it seems very rare. I know of A LOT of cars that have been mapped with Walbro's and without FPR's and they have been running fine for a number of years. Altough I believe it is very possible for the standard reg to be overcome it seems quite rare.
26 March 2008, 02:25 PM
#34
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Terry Crews of moderation. P P P P P P POWER!!
Posts: 18,687
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just had mine mapped to around 340bhp with 550s asked Bob if there was any need for an uprated FPR. "Nope" was the reply. I've got a knocklink to warn of any lean running shoud the std one say cheerio!
Ns04
Ns04
26 March 2008, 02:27 PM
#35
Probably either Zen or JGM.
It'll more than likely be JGM. Simon did elude to the fact that at 1.1bar, PFR6B gapped to 0.7mm (which I have), std pump and FPR will be fine, so long as coilpacks are okay - which they appear to be...
26 March 2008, 02:45 PM
#42
Tidgy, sorry mate but I have to disagree with you on a few points here.
Firstly my failure. It was down to the reg, and the cylinder that had the damaged was the one nearest the OE reg therefore it saw a lack of fuel first. Remember at high revs it takes a split second for no fuel to cause damage.
It wasnt a misfire and it wasnt the mapping (Andy F mapped it)
I was right about the pump then, I was pretty certain the pump didn't flow at variable rates. Its either on or off. Its the reg doing all the work. But I wasn't 100% on this.
I would agree that if using standard pump and standard reg then it could be OK but these are still prone to failure once more demands are placed on them especially considering the age of the car.
But for me it would be a very simple choice. Spend no money and hope that nothing fails. If it does you're looking at a £3000 bill atleast. Or Spend £250 on a pump and a decent reg and know everything will be ok.
It would be the latter everytime!!
Remember, I've been where both of you are now and unfortuneatly I've got the big receipts as a result of me cutting corners and trying to be frugal.
My fuel system failed and resulted in totally fubared engine which led to my self build project thread https://www.scoobynet.com/projects-4...ssic-2-0l.html I had to bore the block, and buy new pistons. It was then I started chasing big power
Joz for the sake of £250 I wouldnt take the risk.
As I say if it does fail it could be messy and if its messy it's going to be expensive. Atleast 10 x the £250 for the pump and reg.
Tidgy, I also think you're on borrowed time if you drive it hard.
Firstly my failure. It was down to the reg, and the cylinder that had the damaged was the one nearest the OE reg therefore it saw a lack of fuel first. Remember at high revs it takes a split second for no fuel to cause damage.
It wasnt a misfire and it wasnt the mapping (Andy F mapped it)
I was right about the pump then, I was pretty certain the pump didn't flow at variable rates. Its either on or off. Its the reg doing all the work. But I wasn't 100% on this.
I would agree that if using standard pump and standard reg then it could be OK but these are still prone to failure once more demands are placed on them especially considering the age of the car.
But for me it would be a very simple choice. Spend no money and hope that nothing fails. If it does you're looking at a £3000 bill atleast. Or Spend £250 on a pump and a decent reg and know everything will be ok.
It would be the latter everytime!!
Remember, I've been where both of you are now and unfortuneatly I've got the big receipts as a result of me cutting corners and trying to be frugal.
My fuel system failed and resulted in totally fubared engine which led to my self build project thread https://www.scoobynet.com/projects-4...ssic-2-0l.html I had to bore the block, and buy new pistons. It was then I started chasing big power
Joz for the sake of £250 I wouldnt take the risk.
As I say if it does fail it could be messy and if its messy it's going to be expensive. Atleast 10 x the £250 for the pump and reg.
Tidgy, I also think you're on borrowed time if you drive it hard.
26 March 2008, 02:55 PM
#47
Scooby Regular
you havent scared me, i was looking into this anyway as we have maxed out my current injectors and dont want to go for the new injector route at this stage as there is no more to be had from this engine.
26 March 2008, 03:08 PM
#49
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dublin
Posts: 732
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is it not a bit risky to rely on a knocklink alone to warn you
I dont think there is any guarante your gonna get detonation. Have you got a fuel pressure gauge you can look at aswell ? If not you could have a faulire and have no activty on the knocklink.
Last edited by renno rannes; 26 March 2008 at 03:11 PM.
26 March 2008, 03:19 PM
#50
Scooby Regular
i've had mine in this set up for about 8 months now, my car is a weekend toy, and is treated as such, so not an easy life lol, however i warm it up cool it down, regular oil changes and it hasn't missed a beat.
my car has been mod'd and maped by clinic and pat herborn and no mention was ever made of needing to run an uprated one, so on that note i'd go along with the advice i have been given.
last time out i spent alot on upgrades, including larger turbo, front mount, fuel pump, induction kit and a stand alone ecu, so wouldn't have batted an eyelid had i been told i needed one and its an extra £150 ish. so to me says that if i can take it that far without needing one (342bhp 315ftlb) then sub 300 aint gonna be an issue whatso ever.
26 March 2008, 03:30 PM
#51
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Terry Crews of moderation. P P P P P P POWER!!
Posts: 18,687
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did he say when he thought a reg was needed ? Have you got a newage car ? The classic shape is more prone to it.
Is it not a bit risky to rely on a knocklink alone to warn you I dont think there is any guarante your gonna get detonation. Have you got a fuel pressure gauge you can look at aswell ? If not you could have a faulire and have no activty on the knocklink.
Is it not a bit risky to rely on a knocklink alone to warn you
I dont think there is any guarante your gonna get detonation. Have you got a fuel pressure gauge you can look at aswell ? If not you could have a faulire and have no activty on the knocklink. Ns04
26 March 2008, 03:42 PM
#52
not everyone's opinions is the same, so nee bother.
i've had mine in this set up for about 8 months now, my car is a weekend toy, and is treated as such, so not an easy life lol, however i warm it up cool it down, regular oil changes and it hasn't missed a beat.
my car has been mod'd and maped by clinic and pat herborn and no mention was ever made of needing to run an uprated one, so on that note i'd go along with the advice i have been given.
last time out i spent alot on upgrades, including larger turbo, front mount, fuel pump, induction kit and a stand alone ecu, so wouldn't have batted an eyelid had i been told i needed one and its an extra £150 ish. so to me says that if i can take it that far without needing one (342bhp 315ftlb) then sub 300 aint gonna be an issue whatso ever.
i've had mine in this set up for about 8 months now, my car is a weekend toy, and is treated as such, so not an easy life lol, however i warm it up cool it down, regular oil changes and it hasn't missed a beat.
my car has been mod'd and maped by clinic and pat herborn and no mention was ever made of needing to run an uprated one, so on that note i'd go along with the advice i have been given.
last time out i spent alot on upgrades, including larger turbo, front mount, fuel pump, induction kit and a stand alone ecu, so wouldn't have batted an eyelid had i been told i needed one and its an extra £150 ish. so to me says that if i can take it that far without needing one (342bhp 315ftlb) then sub 300 aint gonna be an issue whatso ever.
I was told I didn't need one either. I wish I could go back and tell myself to get one. I'd have alot more money in my pocket now lol
26 March 2008, 04:02 PM
#53
Scooby Regular
sucks huh, tbh theres not many reports of it failing, or it would be high up on the list of parts to replace when tuning. it sounds like you may of had some plain old bad luck, touch wood (pats head) it doesn't happen to me. a guy i know had an engine build and 5 months later it went pop due to the oil pump failing, it was a new engine build and he'd haggled them down on price in favour of paying more and a full warrenty.
26 March 2008, 05:07 PM
#54
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southampton
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have just purchased a FPR and 440 Injectors for my 1995 Wrx Wagon am I ok to get these fitted without replacing the Fuel pump I am on the look out for a Walbro 255L but wanted to get the other bits fitted to start with.
Cheers all.
Cheers all.
26 March 2008, 05:43 PM
#55
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ascended to the next level
Posts: 7,498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As mentioned; with an uprated pump your asking the OE regulator to handle relieving pressure at higher flow rates that it was never designed to do (most notable under circumstances where there is low fuel demand - idle, cruise etc). It's the unknown factor that is the problem. And that unknown can be harmful.
Its why I stave off fuel pump and reg mods until the car is RR'd and the fuel pressure is assertained as stable under load - only if it starts to struggle maintaining pressure then would I upgrade, and that would be both reg and pump.
Typically, as with lots of non-OE aftermarket "performance" parts. There is alot of junk that doesn't last so even the aftermarket ones have tobe wary of - I can't reccomend one, because of that. I know I have had problems with FSE, and thats as far as I can go.
Its why I stave off fuel pump and reg mods until the car is RR'd and the fuel pressure is assertained as stable under load - only if it starts to struggle maintaining pressure then would I upgrade, and that would be both reg and pump.
Typically, as with lots of non-OE aftermarket "performance" parts. There is alot of junk that doesn't last so even the aftermarket ones have tobe wary of - I can't reccomend one, because of that. I know I have had problems with FSE, and thats as far as I can go.
26 March 2008, 06:06 PM
#57
Matt, you be fine with an uprated reg and a standard fuel pump.
Its the otherway round where problems start to occur ie uprated pump and OE reg.
Joz If you're trying to sell Matt your Walbro, personally I think your mad.
For the sake of £200 you'd have a 100% reliable, up to the job fuel system.
Your oe pump is 15 years old, that could still fail and would result in the same outcome. But hey, your car your money mate
Its the otherway round where problems start to occur ie uprated pump and OE reg.
Joz If you're trying to sell Matt your Walbro, personally I think your mad.
For the sake of £200 you'd have a 100% reliable, up to the job fuel system.
Your oe pump is 15 years old, that could still fail and would result in the same outcome. But hey, your car your money mate
26 March 2008, 06:20 PM
#58
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 882
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not a mechanical expert so I can only pass on what advice I've been given by others .... but this discussion came up for me only a week or so ago. My MY02 forged 2.5 ltre running 350/350ish was in a TSL for some other work. They spotted that I had an FPR fitted (and also that it was leaking fuel slightly so needed replacing). They took it off and replaced it with a new, standard OE item, stating that it was definitely not necessary for me to have had an aftermarket FPR fitted. The car runs a max of 1.3 bar on a modified TD05.