Notices
Non Scooby Related Anything Non-Scooby related

Anyone sick of the 'green'/Global warming stuff yet?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 01 May 2008, 03:34 PM
  #541  
Suresh
Scooby Regular
 
Suresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,622
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by PeteBrant
Is English your first language? Because I can only assume it isn't seeing as you have clearly not understood a single word I have said.

I'll say it again.


I have an open mind on the subject. I am not convinced one way or the other.

I am willing to accept that there are people that have devoted thier life to studying this sort of thing that know a lot more than I do.



Which bit of that are you struggling with. I am more than happy to rephrase it into something which maybe a little easier to understand.

Lemme know, 'k?
Is that really your best put-down?
3/10


Your imaginary 'winter heatwave' has clearly addled your brain!

Last edited by Suresh; 01 May 2008 at 03:36 PM.
Old 01 May 2008, 04:33 PM
  #542  
PeteBrant
Scooby Regular
 
PeteBrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Worthing..
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Suresh
Is that really your best put-down?
3/10


Your imaginary 'winter heatwave' has clearly addled your brain!
It's not a put down! It's a genuine question. I am perplexed as to why you equate "keeping an open mind" to " utterly convinced by the MMGW arguement.
Old 01 May 2008, 05:48 PM
  #543  
Suresh
Scooby Regular
 
Suresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,622
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by PeteBrant
It's not a put down! It's a genuine question. I am perplexed as to why you equate "keeping an open mind" to " utterly convinced by the MMGW arguement.
Ah I see. Okay, what confused me is that you made a statement that the 2008 winter will be warmer still. I underlined it twice when quoting it too.

Maybe its my poor Inglish , but "will be" indicates a degree of certainty, which I equated to a conviction that it is going to happen (we now know it didn't) and then put you into the MMGW camp. If you had said "could be" or "might be", then I wouldn't have done so.

Making a statement like that doesn't fit the profile of having an open mind really, does it?

From my side I do actually care about the planet. Saw the Gore film and found it convincing. Then found out about the half-truths, spin and downright lies that were used to 'sell his story'. It was not a balanced view of what is known at this point. Being lied to makes me angry, so by way of reaction, I'm not interested in his crusade or the IPCC lies and all the hysteria anymore, as the foundations of the arguments are far from sound (though always possible).
Old 01 May 2008, 07:31 PM
  #544  
Martin2005
Scooby Regular
 
Martin2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Klaatu
Yes. There is no "runaway greehouse" effect as temperature isn't "running away".....or did yo forget that little fact?
The point about Venus wasn't whether the is a runaway greenhouse effect going on, it's that there was a runaway greenhouse effect, that's why it so hot and there's so much co2 in the atmosphere, there's little or non left on the planet itself
This why Venus it is so hot in comparison with Mercury (which is a far more interesting comparison given the relative distance from the sun).
Old 01 May 2008, 07:36 PM
  #545  
Martin2005
Scooby Regular
 
Martin2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Klaatu
About 3 - 4 billion years ago?? And in 3 - 5 billion years, our Earth will be no more, burnt to vapour! You are comparing geological events, in human timeframes. 150 years, on a scale of 3 - 4 billion!!! Get real!

If Earth reaches concentrations of 95 Co2, it may happen. Problem with that Peter, is that there is a clear record of Co2 at 1500-1800 PMM WITHOUT that feared "runway greenhouse effect".

So at last we agree then, the very reason we starter talking about bloody Venus was because someone (huttond) said that Co2 wasn't even a greenhouse gas, I said it is, and you only have to look at Venus to see it's effects.

I have never said Earth will turn into a 'Venus'....EVER

Your problem prof, is that you see the words greenhouse effect or Global Warming, and you immediately default to trying to disprove it, this time that approach has made you look a bit silly.

Last edited by Martin2005; 01 May 2008 at 08:58 PM.
Old 01 May 2008, 10:18 PM
  #546  
swiss scooby
Scooby Regular
 
swiss scooby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Klaatu
You have just repeated most of the IPCC unscience, scaremongering and propaganda. Can't you do any research yourself? With regards to climate, climate shouldn't be anything we humans consider as "normal" in only 150 years. To think we can infleuence or change it is rediculous.

I won't prvide a "link" to "back up my post", which is what you are after. I've done my research for me, I am not a "gofer" for someone who appears not to have an ounce of independent thought. But I will indentify one for you. Look up "hockey stick temperature graph". Then look up The Medievil Warm Period, The LIttle Ice Age, The Carboniferous Period...and have agood read there.

Can you guess what industry Al's family made their multimillions? It's ain't about saving the planet BTW.
Klaatu, somehow I have the feeling that you suddenly feel insecure with your knowledge and points. Anyway, what I wanted to tell you is... you can study and study and study some more, maybe for your whole life long. What I suggest to you is to put your learnings aside just for once and go outside and take a look for yourself on how nowadays life works and in what condition our nature is. How we as human beings are dealing with things and what value we are giving our so much needed mother nature. Your scientific numbers and learnings won't save your life or the life of our next generation. It's up to us and each individual to change their habits. I have my mind set to a more natural/green living a long time ago and I didn't need Al Gore or you or anybody else to underline or change it. When I saw Al Gore's movie I was just shocked on how fast things are changing and I saw that not only the Swiss Alps are suffering with melting glaciers and flooded valleys but also other countries and regions around the word. This leads me to strongly believe that what we are dealing with here and now, is not regionally but rather a global phenomenon -> Global Warming.
I don't want to discuss any further on this topic because words won't help for this much needed change in GW. All we need is ACTIONS and not additional words, debates, books or celebrities.
Old 01 May 2008, 10:26 PM
  #547  
kingofturds
Scooby Regular
Support Scoobynet!
iTrader: (1)
 
kingofturds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Zanzibar
Posts: 17,373
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

I wish this global warming malarkay would hurry up, it was hailing this morning
Old 01 May 2008, 10:34 PM
  #548  
Lisawrx
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
 
Lisawrx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Where I am
Posts: 9,729
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by swiss scooby
Klaatu, somehow I have the feeling that you suddenly feel insecure with your knowledge and points. Anyway, what I wanted to tell you is... you can study and study and study some more, maybe for your whole life long. What I suggest to you is to put your learnings aside just for once and go outside and take a look for yourself on how nowadays life works and in what condition our nature is. How we as human beings are dealing with things and what value we are giving our so much needed mother nature. Your scientific numbers and learnings won't save your life or the life of our next generation. It's up to us and each individual to change their habits. I have my mind set to a more natural/green living a long time ago and I didn't need Al Gore or you or anybody else to underline or change it. When I saw Al Gore's movie I was just shocked on how fast things are changing and I saw that not only the Swiss Alps are suffering with melting glaciers and flooded valleys but also other countries and regions around the word. This leads me to strongly believe that what we are dealing with here and now, is not regionally but rather a global phenomenon -> Global Warming.
I don't want to discuss any further on this topic because words won't help for this much needed change in GW. All we need is ACTIONS and not additional words, debates, books or celebrities.
The real crux of the issue, is that before people make 'significant' changes to save the world, they have to believe wholeheartedly that human behaviour is making a significant impact.

I'm not so sure it is, not extreme in my view either way. What can't be said, is that we are without shadow of a doubt causing climate change, or that we're not. Different sides will produce information to support their view, but there is nothing definitive.

If you choose to be more 'green' then fine, but don't force the action on others, until it is proven we are significantly responsible. I'm no expert, but changes in global systems are not new, whether they are influenced by human activity, or at least by how much is still debateable.
Old 01 May 2008, 10:36 PM
  #549  
Suresh
Scooby Regular
 
Suresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,622
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by swiss scooby
KAll we need is ACTIONS and not additional words, debates, books or celebrities.
Put your money where your mouth is and sell your Scoob then! The SBB is more than good enough, surely??
Old 01 May 2008, 10:36 PM
  #550  
Lisawrx
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
 
Lisawrx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Where I am
Posts: 9,729
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by kingofturds
I wish this global warming malarkay would hurry up, it was hailing this morning
It's climate change now hun.

However so do I, I want a bit of sun.
Old 02 May 2008, 12:11 AM
  #551  
PeteBrant
Scooby Regular
 
PeteBrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Worthing..
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Lisawrx
If you choose to be more 'green' then fine, but don't force the action on others, until it is proven we are significantly responsible. .
What if it is too late by that point? I'm not saying that this is the case, but shouldn't we err on the side of caution?

I mean if someone insists that they won't accept that pouring petrol on their arm and setting light to it will cause horrible burns, when they actually do it and say "oh yeah".. it's a bit late in the day.
Old 02 May 2008, 04:19 AM
  #552  
Klaatu
Scooby Regular
 
Klaatu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,911
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Martin2005
The point about Venus wasn't whether the is a runaway greenhouse effect going on, it's that there was a runaway greenhouse effect, that's why it so hot and there's so much co2 in the atmosphere, there's little or non left on the planet itself
This why Venus it is so hot in comparison with Mercury (which is a far more interesting comparison given the relative distance from the sun).
3-4 billion years ago the whole solar system was still forming, there were massive changes across the entire system, changes that may have lead to Earth and Venus being what they are today (Clearly).
Old 02 May 2008, 04:22 AM
  #553  
Klaatu
Scooby Regular
 
Klaatu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,911
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Martin2005
So at last we agree then, the very reason we starter talking about bloody Venus was because someone (huttond) said that Co2 wasn't even a greenhouse gas, I said it is, and you only have to look at Venus to see it's effects.

I have never said Earth will turn into a 'Venus'....EVER

Your problem prof, is that you see the words greenhouse effect or Global Warming, and you immediately default to trying to disprove it, this time that approach has made you look a bit silly.
Concentrations of Co2 in our atmosphere, today, are about 0.045% by volume, what's that about 450ppm? AGW looks silly, I don't!
Old 02 May 2008, 04:39 AM
  #554  
Klaatu
Scooby Regular
 
Klaatu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,911
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by swiss scooby
Klaatu, somehow I have the feeling that you suddenly feel insecure with your knowledge and points. Anyway, what I wanted to tell you is... you can study and study and study some more, maybe for your whole life long. What I suggest to you is to put your learnings aside just for once and go outside and take a look for yourself on how nowadays life works and in what condition our nature is. How we as human beings are dealing with things and what value we are giving our so much needed mother nature. Your scientific numbers and learnings won't save your life or the life of our next generation. It's up to us and each individual to change their habits. I have my mind set to a more natural/green living a long time ago and I didn't need Al Gore or you or anybody else to underline or change it. When I saw Al Gore's movie I was just shocked on how fast things are changing and I saw that not only the Swiss Alps are suffering with melting glaciers and flooded valleys but also other countries and regions around the word. This leads me to strongly believe that what we are dealing with here and now, is not regionally but rather a global phenomenon -> Global Warming.
I don't want to discuss any further on this topic because words won't help for this much needed change in GW. All we need is ACTIONS and not additional words, debates, books or celebrities.
Insecure, I don't think so. Knowledge is truth.

We're talking about how Co2 relased by humans (At about 450pmm today) is the cause of "rapid and dangerous global climate change". Some of the points, about how humans live in the modern age, should be given a separate thread. I agree with you, the modern consumerisum world is not sustainable. Every time I go to the supermarket, or just to see how modern life is heading, it depresses me to see so much of our resources being wasted. A paradigm shift in attitudes is required. But Co2 is the cause of rapid climate change, and only the Co2 from humans, and primarilly only Co2 from fossil fuels, particularly cars. C'mon, who's fooling who?

The problem is with your natural/reen living is that it's not sustainable either due to the sheer expanses of land required. I'd love a plot of land to grow veggies, raise a few beasts...don't see that happening in my rented apartment complex somehow. Or there needs to be a population cull...and if you look about the world today, the pieces are being moved into place for Govn't to achieve this.

Are you suggesting I change my ways, like conserving reasources, water, power, reduce waste, use public transport etc? I already do and have done for many decades. So how much effect do you think these "one day events" (Earth Hour etc) that seem so popular these days will actually have?

Al Gores mocumentary was designed to shock, that was the point. I started to watch it. I asked my self, what has his political career and the death of his son got to do with GW? To stir emotion? And then the hockey stick graph was shown...I turned it off a that point. Believe all you like, but please, research facts, not spin Al "I invented the internet" Gore like.

Al Gore's wealth was derived, primarilly, from oil. He now has a UK based company trading carbon credits. The synic in me suggest he has a vested interest somewhere there.

If you believe media outlets, news, cinema, documentaries of the Al Gore type etc, then you have been fooled. The truth is out there (Just most of it isn't on the net).

Live long and prosper, get ready for the next little ice age.

Last edited by Klaatu; 02 May 2008 at 04:43 AM.
Old 02 May 2008, 01:41 PM
  #555  
Leslie
Scooby Regular
 
Leslie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

So no one can tell us why atmospheric pressure has an effect on air temperature then! Someone said it does though!

Les
Old 02 May 2008, 01:56 PM
  #556  
Martin2005
Scooby Regular
 
Martin2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Leslie
So no one can tell us why atmospheric pressure has an effect on air temperature then! Someone said it does though!

Les
Ask the professor he'll know
Old 03 May 2008, 11:47 AM
  #557  
Leslie
Scooby Regular
 
Leslie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Martin2005
Ask the professor he'll know
I thought I did!

Les
Old 03 May 2008, 07:01 PM
  #558  
DocJock
Scooby Regular
 
DocJock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: a more anarchic place
Posts: 1,828
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Boyle's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Old 04 May 2008, 01:24 PM
  #559  
Klaatu
Scooby Regular
 
Klaatu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,911
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by DocJock
Finally!! Some of us are "getting" the point (Between Venus and Earth).

Still, at 450ppm, no "rapid and dagerous" warming, and even at 1500-1800pmm, no "rapid and dagerous" warming.

My olds live in a village, in Hampshire. They live on one of the hills. When I lived there there were fields in the valley between us and the major highway on a opposite hill. Every winter, the fields in the valey flooded, and snow drifts filled the lows. Now there is a small "development" on what was once fields (Which regularly flooded every winter with heavy rain), now we have "flood damage due to climate change" whereby a few houses get flooded (In a flood plain FFS).

A carbon tax on fuel will sort that out! Yeah right!
Old 04 May 2008, 01:55 PM
  #560  
Leslie
Scooby Regular
 
Leslie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by DocJock
That is only when there is a change in the pressurisation. Makes no difference in a steady state.

Les
Old 04 May 2008, 03:36 PM
  #561  
DocJock
Scooby Regular
 
DocJock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: a more anarchic place
Posts: 1,828
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

You asked about a change in atmospheric pressure in post #555.

Boyle's law does not apply exactly as the atmosphere is not a closed system, but gravity means that it's a partially closed system so the principle of increasing pressure causing an increase in temperature applies, just with a smaller temperature increase.
Old 05 May 2008, 12:12 PM
  #562  
Leslie
Scooby Regular
 
Leslie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by DocJock
You asked about a change in atmospheric pressure in post #555.

Boyle's law does not apply exactly as the atmosphere is not a closed system, but gravity means that it's a partially closed system so the principle of increasing pressure causing an increase in temperature applies, just with a smaller temperature increase.
If you look again, you wiill see that I did not mention changing pressure, deliberately. Yes if you increase pressure adiabatically then of course the temperature will increase. But I asked, how does a higher atmospheric pressure increase global warming?

Les
Old 06 May 2008, 01:00 PM
  #563  
Klaatu
Scooby Regular
 
Klaatu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,911
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by DocJock
You asked about a change in atmospheric pressure in post #555.

Boyle's law does not apply exactly as the atmosphere is not a closed system, but gravity means that it's a partially closed system so the principle of increasing pressure causing an increase in temperature applies, just with a smaller temperature increase.
At last! But at "sea level" and in relation to surface temps, the "system" is closed given the pressure. Funny that, it has to be spelled out for "warmalist believers".

Last edited by Klaatu; 06 May 2008 at 01:02 PM.
Old 14 June 2008, 01:18 PM
  #564  
Klaatu
Scooby Regular
 
Klaatu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,911
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

The latest scam, worst wet weather in the US mid-west in 500 years!! Yes that's right, 500 years!!!!! 350 years before records were actually created.
Old 17 June 2008, 04:51 AM
  #566  
Klaatu
Scooby Regular
 
Klaatu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,911
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Good quote!
Old 19 June 2008, 02:13 AM
  #567  
Klaatu
Scooby Regular
 
Klaatu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,911
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Wonder when the warmalists will bang on about "global climate cooling change warming by the very same gas...d'oh!" and the recent floods in the US mid-west (Flood plains and improperly made/maintained man-made levees don't work).

Last edited by Klaatu; 19 June 2008 at 04:20 AM.
Old 24 June 2008, 09:21 AM
  #569  
ricardo
Scooby Regular
 
ricardo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,081
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Woohoo, it's heating up ! The debate that is:
Veteran climate scientist says 'lock up the oil men' | The Register

Have a look at some of the comments on that article...


Quick Reply: Anyone sick of the 'green'/Global warming stuff yet?



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:46 PM.