Heathrow Airplane Crash!
17 January 2008, 02:06 PM
#31
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Les, from what the bloke on Sky News just said it hasn't even made the runway, gear was down OK but it just fell out of the sky and landed in the ILS equipment area! No warnings to the passengers for brace so must have been a last minute fault.
17 January 2008, 02:08 PM
#32
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Sounds like it fell out of the sky just inside the perimeter fence, I wonder if it was a microburst/wind shear induced stall? 
Last edited by Vampire; 17 January 2008 at 02:17 PM.
17 January 2008, 02:32 PM
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So it's likely due to a technical fault, or could this be pilot error? The news articles on this don't seem to be speculating the cause of the accident- just saying it 'landed short' - but why?
17 January 2008, 02:32 PM
#37
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I haven't read anybody laughing about it either?
17 January 2008, 02:35 PM
#39
17 January 2008, 02:35 PM
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Not likely to be Pilot error I would have thought Pete, a Captain of a 777 is going to have some serious hours under their belts and isn't likely just to chuck it into the ground. Does seem strange circumstances for a mechanical though, could even be something freak weather related like somebody suggested earlier.
17 January 2008, 03:49 PM
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As Chip says, BBC now quoting via a third party the captain saying that he lost all power/avoinics at the last minute and had to glide in.
Very lucky that it worked out as it did - could have been very messy if they had not made the perimiter of the airfield.
Very lucky that it worked out as it did - could have been very messy if they had not made the perimiter of the airfield.
17 January 2008, 03:51 PM
#45
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Surely though if he had lost ALL power as he says then he would have just been a passenger himself as the tail , wingflaps etc are all hydraulically powered as well.
Chip
Chip
17 January 2008, 04:03 PM
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That's what's being reported but as you point out the pilot would not have been able to infuence anything at all if it were the case. There must have been power from somewhere for him to be able to keep the nose up.
Does the aux power unit supply the avionics systems?
Does the aux power unit supply the avionics systems?
17 January 2008, 04:13 PM
#48
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I would have thought if the engines shut down totally the passengers would have noticed, not of them have reported that - perhaps after throttling down during the descent they wouldn't power up again? That would have maintained enough power for control surfaces / lights etc (something else nobody has mentioned going off) but not enough power to make the runway.
Last edited by Nido; 17 January 2008 at 04:28 PM.
17 January 2008, 04:32 PM
#51
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I thought the point of an APU was to give basic power for an aircraft in case of engine failure. I'm sure Les will be along soon to tell us if when an aircraft losses all engine power if they can still manoeuvre.
17 January 2008, 04:36 PM
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17 January 2008, 04:48 PM
#54
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If you lose engines/electrics you drop the RAT - Ram Air Turbine - which will give you sufficient electrical and hydraulic power to make a controlled crash.
SB
SB
17 January 2008, 04:50 PM
#55
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Just about to book Heathrow to Beijing with BA for October this year
Deploy your own 777 RAT here!
Boeing 777: Hydraulic
Deploy your own 777 RAT here!
Boeing 777: Hydraulic
Last edited by MartinM; 17 January 2008 at 04:55 PM.
17 January 2008, 04:55 PM
#56
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Just got back from the crash scene. Gear is about 150mtrs away from then plane. From what i could see the fence has been hit by the gear as he came in. The plane impacted the grass short of 27L, and it looks from where the grass is cut up that he missed the TDZ by about 1/2 mile. So something dramatic and quick happened. No mayday was issued to ATC. BA ops guy said the skipper told him he lost all power, but by standers are saying the engines were spinning, so its a weird one. The AAIB report should be interesting.
Lucky escape for all concerned. 10 secs earlier and he comes down on Hatton Cross tube station.
Lucky escape for all concerned. 10 secs earlier and he comes down on Hatton Cross tube station.
17 January 2008, 04:58 PM
#57
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They certainly did well to get it on the airfield, and even ended up on the tarmac (just). Nobody has said whether they'd declared an emergency (* answered by FlightMan above), it may be that whatever went wrong was literally in the final phase of the approach, although there is an account of it approaching from off the centre line and banking sharply to line up.
It is easy to speculate about fuel and other types of problem, I guess we'll see a lot of that for a while.
It is easy to speculate about fuel and other types of problem, I guess we'll see a lot of that for a while.
17 January 2008, 04:58 PM
#58
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Carry on please Martin - pays my wages.
I'm an engineer for BA and am very pleased that no-one was seriously injured in this accident. Looking at the damage caused by the left main landing gear the people sat in that section of the aircraft were very lucky.
Crew have done a fantastic job both in getting it on the ground and with the evacuation.
APU will supply Pneumatics and electrics. APU door is open but no way to tell if it had time to start. Wouldn't rely on the Tug drivers' statement on BBC News 24 though - doubt very much the Captain would've stopped for a chat and a cuppa on his way back to debrief!!
I'm an engineer for BA and am very pleased that no-one was seriously injured in this accident. Looking at the damage caused by the left main landing gear the people sat in that section of the aircraft were very lucky.
Crew have done a fantastic job both in getting it on the ground and with the evacuation.
APU will supply Pneumatics and electrics. APU door is open but no way to tell if it had time to start. Wouldn't rely on the Tug drivers' statement on BBC News 24 though - doubt very much the Captain would've stopped for a chat and a cuppa on his way back to debrief!!
17 January 2008, 05:43 PM
#59
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Having landed short of the runway, if there is a significant lip at the beginning of the runway, the wheels would not climb over it so the wheels would suffer the full horizontal inertia of the aircrat and the undercarriage legs will just break off or collapse.
This happened years ago to a Vulcan at Malta in severe crosswinds and turbulence. The undercarriage was severely damaged and the pilot managed to get airborns again. One of the wings was on fire because of damage and the aircraft exploded. Only the two pilots escaped with their lives by ejecting.
Les
This happened years ago to a Vulcan at Malta in severe crosswinds and turbulence. The undercarriage was severely damaged and the pilot managed to get airborns again. One of the wings was on fire because of damage and the aircraft exploded. Only the two pilots escaped with their lives by ejecting.
Les
......and that's not an option in a commercial airliner; this could have been soooo much worse.NS04
17 January 2008, 05:48 PM
#60
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Taking the positives from this. Rather than scaring me, it encourages me how much safer air travel has become.
Im sure by the sounds of things there were no hour long drama's that can be turned into a film of how the crew saved everyone. But at the same time.....
Whatever happened, somehow the plane made a severely hard landing, and NO major casualties....to me that says, unlucky but a great demonstration of plane safety..... in a wierd way.
For those in the know..... whats the approx final approach speed for a 777 ? Just wondering roughly what speed it hit the floor at.
Im sure by the sounds of things there were no hour long drama's that can be turned into a film of how the crew saved everyone. But at the same time.....
Whatever happened, somehow the plane made a severely hard landing, and NO major casualties....to me that says, unlucky but a great demonstration of plane safety..... in a wierd way.
For those in the know..... whats the approx final approach speed for a 777 ? Just wondering roughly what speed it hit the floor at.