I agree 100%, always thought GT3/4 was way better than Forza 1.

Buying F2 this afternoon so will have a play over the coming weeks and see what the fuss is all about.

 

I've always thought of it the other way around. I always thought that the GT games felt very arcade like, whereas the Forza games felt more realistic. I certainly never felt as though it was on a pivot, although perhaps I use a different view to you (I always use an in car view).

None of them are as good as Geoff Crammonds F1GP3 though. Wish he'd write a new one...

 

I guess some people are just more sensitive to it than me then. I never noticed that "pivot" feeling at all.

Forza 2 isn't perfect, but it's definitely (imo) a big step forward from GT4 / PGR3 etc. Can't wait to see what they come up with for PGR4 and GT5

 

1 word explains this...... Space. Biggest single limitation of the 360 is the space available on the DVD, it's the main advantage Sony have with the PS3 but not one they are exploiting yet. Imagine the work that goes in to the modelling of cockpits for 300+ cars, and try and imagine that running with the physics engine of Forza 2 and it simply won't fit. That's also why some of the graphics are slightly less than they could have been. They didn't have the space available for it in either the processor or the DVD, and that's also why there isn't weather modelling. Expect future versions of Forza on 360 to come on possibly two CD's (splitting sim from arcade mode similar to GT).

Can't say I have found that on either Forza game, and I really can't understand the comparison on physics. In GT4 you could have a 600bhp RWD car that you could stand on the throttle whilst exiting corners with almost no wheelspin. The handling was more sim than most games but still nothing even close to the realism you get from F2 IMO.

On the issue of DLC, Forza looks almost definite to be gaining a lot of tracks, semi-confirmed already is that all of the tracks from the original (not the point-to-point races) will be available as free DLC - That's Road America, Blue mountain etc, etc. Additionally to this are almost definitely Le Mans (Circuit De Le Sarthe) and Barcelona and there are rumours that the developers have also been preparing to include Spa, Monza, the Nurburgring F1 circuit and another of the American circuits (possibly Daytona). Plus there will be cars although the only semi-definite probables there are the Audi R10, Peugot HDI and the Aston DBR9 race cars.

 

The first bit about the space on the DVD. where has that info come from? I'm not refuting it but would be interested to hear what was said.

 

Hasn't been officially said, but there have been several mentions about 'data limitations' that have been mentioned on the Forza 2 home forums over recent months, and a few times the specific issue of cockpit views were mentioned and the official answer was always something similar to that.

 

cheers

 

I think there was also problems getting Oblivion to fit on 1 disc, in the end they had to drop the audio quality of the speech, not that there was anything wrong with the end result. IIRC Bethesda developed the game based on the capacity of a HD DVD (part of the 360's original spec) only to have that whisked away, there was rumours the game was going to come on 4 DVD's - if you've played the game you'll know that would have been a nightmare.

 

How many DVDs did the PC version of Oblivion come on then? and Install disc and a seperate play disc?
Sounds like MS need to re-evaluate the whole HD-DVD and not releasing games on it then if it's already affecting the quality of the games released for the 360!

 

I think it's probably a big reason behind the 120gb HDD - I can see some games taking advantage the extra space and not just DL content.

GRAW 2 for example had an extra level to download from day 1 - don't know why they just didnt include it on the disc.

 

Don't think it's affecting the quality of games so much, more the longevity of them. Cerainly on the question of cars and tracks for F2 there seems to have been a definite issue, and alledgedly this was also the case with gears of war as well, where Epic wanted to originally have eight acts instead of six but couldn't fit it all on one disc. Whether MS will re-visit the idea of HDDVD games, or simply skirt round the problem by making games with a core of the game on disc and then levels becoming downloadable is not sure. The release of the elite pack and bigger hard-drive certainly hints that this will be the case.

 

Gears only had 5 acts and not 6 - and the length of the game has probably been its biggest criticism.

360 Elite still doesnt have a HD DVD drive either.

Too early to tell whether MS have shot themselves in the foot with regard to storage capacity, but it should just make dev's a bit more creative when coding. Polyphony had trouble when doing Nordschleife for GT4 - the PS2 didnt have the memory to do it in one go so they had to stream it from the disc.

oh - and Gears 2 rumoured to be announced at this years E3.

 

I loved GT4 but had an Xbox as well, I enjoyed the Forza 1 demo so bought it off Ebay and promptly sold the PS2, Forza 2 is a big leap over GT4 in many ways.

 

my thoughts

to be honest i feel that playing with the pad, forza 2 and gt4 feel kinda the same to me, they both feel arcadey to me, but i base this on my regular LFS S2 racing which is about as un arcadey as you can get.

i have seen the road disappear on F2 although it came back by itself

i feel that the GFX on forza are not that great, maybe this is because we have been spoiled with stuff like gears of war? the 22b for example looks strange, especially the rear lights, very bizarre looking, feels like they cut corners with the car models somewhere to save time/space

i think the physics of forza are a bit better then gt, but not by much, you can argue that lots more stuff is accounted for, but it still seams a bit "dumbed down" for a "sim" IMO

probably because the average console racer is not really the "sim" driver type.

i still feel that LFS is the best sim out there physics wise, but forza 2 is the best console sim.

i think anti aliasing on the GFX would have made a massive difference, would be intrested to see the reasons why this was not switched on? i find it hard to believe that the 360 is running flat out when playing this game

i feel my batterd old 2.3ghx pc with a 9700 pro GFX card running LFS gives better screenshots and i have a few higher textures added to LFS which bumps up the strain you are talking about vast extra numbers of online racers as well !

 

I was most saddened by the fact you can't actually make the tyres blow out when I was doing a rolling burnout in my Monaro VXR

 

Great that you can do rolling burnouts though, another bonus point over GT.

One more thing, Time Trials, in GT I can remember nearly throwing the console out of the window when you put a tyre on the grass and the race finished, FM at least lets you finish the lap.

 

stuff like that ^^

if you watch the forza intros it gives the impression that tyre deflection and stuff is modeled, but i cant help feeling that there is a smidge of code somewhere saying

10 if turning move car +5 in direction of turn
20 go back to 10

rather thenit being done properlly, if you know what i mean

 

8 players is a bit of a let down - although I've heard rumours that it'll be increased at some point.

Don't fully understand the system it uses but its the same as COD3 apparently...

 

You could blow the tyres up* in Colin McRae 3 and that's not even a sim!

*I'm not obsessed with popping tyres, I just like leaving skid marks...erm

 

Does anyone else think that Forza2 a little bit understeer'y? Compared to how a real car handles?

Being a SIM i would have thought that they would have made it far more accurate.

 

tbh i think gt4 is more realistic than forz2, you can't throw a car in a corner in real life at 120mph and expect it to come out the otehr side, in gt4 it just understeers out, forza its **** end steps out and it goes round the corner, so which is more realistic?

fair enough forza2 is a giggle for trying to drift and crashing, but thats not realy what a game like gt4 and forza are about.

 

I love all the experts who've all driven these cars on these tracks on the very limit. It's all subjective but without you proving your credentials to comment then it means nothing

 

pmsl, been thre done that and gravelled it pmsl

try it in real life and see what happens pmsl

 

I have. Driven my own Imprezas on track numerous times, plus done rally driving, and driven formula fords

Forza handles more like a real car on track than GT4 end of story. It's not perfect by any means, but it is closer...

 

Fundemental flaw there

How many cars have you driving with a half a turn lock to lock steering range. I will give you the Formula Ford but how many Impreza's and rally cars have half a turn lock to lock.

This video shows GT4 round the ring using a DFP on 900 degree steering lock
Click here to watch GT4-1
Dealing with tank slappers with this degree of movement will always be more realistic than the Microsoft wheel

 

Well, it wasn't