Shell gearing up for UK launch of V Power
17 August 2006, 02:20 PM
#61
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Originally Posted by C2forWRX
how do you know its the new stuff?
plus the staff that where i fill up at have told me that its the new stuff that im putting in my car!
its got to be true why would they say that.
gaz.
17 August 2006, 02:25 PM
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check this thread out. https://www.scoobynet.com/new-optimax-t534241.html
its not just me there are a lot of you out there that have noticed the difference in performance and mpg.
gaz c.
its not just me there are a lot of you out there that have noticed the difference in performance and mpg.
gaz c.
17 August 2006, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by C2forWRX
ok. just wondering if there were any graphics on the pump. the aint changed at my local. they even have a full stand of optimax information leaflets.
17 August 2006, 02:39 PM
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There won't be any ads yet, they haven't launched it. However they have to get all the filling stations done BEFORE the launch, hence why some already have it. They can't fill all the UK's stations the day before launch.
17 August 2006, 02:55 PM
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In Greece we have V Power and V Power plus. V Power's octane rating is 96 RON and V Power plus's octane rating is higher than 99 RON but not lower than 99 RON.
17 August 2006, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by silent running
LOL all this bull**** as if Shell are out to do us - an absolutely miniscule group of their customers - a favour and give us better fuel. I notice also not ONE single person who has gone on anything but hearsay and pub talk. All believing that if Shell DON'T make an announcement, it must be good news...
Here's something I DID hear from a SHELL EMPLOYEE last week and furthermore, one who might actually know something about it, not just the Saturday boy in the shop - an OPTIMAX TANKER DRIVER delivering the Optimax. How accurate his words are, I can't say personally because I'm not a sucker that believes you get something for nothing. But it's a plausible explanation for all your excitement, and from a credible source. To paraphrase:
"The new replacement for Optimax is called V-Max or V-Power but it is the exact same octane as the old Optimax. The new name is used to bring it into line with European Shell premium fuel, but the main reason for the change is because of a legal issue with a contact lens solution manufacturer who also use the name Optimax."
Now please give it a rest! If Shell ever make a fuel that will trump everything else out there for less money, I can be damn sure that they will make a song and dance about it. The reason they haven't is because they are changing the name but the fuel is the same. I remember that when Optimax first came out, Shell made all sorts of false claims about how it would improve your overtaking and all sorts of bollocks, completely ignoring that a significant number of cars at that time did not have adaptive ECUs that would use - or need -the extra octane, and therefore their claims were full of crap. They managed to hang onto the claim that their 'detergents' were better for all cars, but the claim that all cars would effectively go faster because of the extra octane were quietly dropped. And I'm not going by hearsay, because I was one of the very people who complained about their bull**** in the first place. Octane is octane, not magic.
Once V-Power or V-Max is introduced and Shell advertise the octane rating and it is some incredible 102 race fuel, then if I am wrong I will say so. But in the meantime I won't gullibly believe that huge firms like Shell give a **** about the tiny minority of drivers who need Optimax in their Jap imports or tuned turbos. It's a 'halo' product to make the rest of Shell's operation look slicker and more motorist-orientated - the exact opposite of say Tesco who treat petrol simply as a commodity. Which is exactly as it should be and the reason why we can now choose to get 99 octane fuel from Tescis for virtually the same as Shell charge for normal 95 RON unleaded.
Sorry for the rant, but it just amazes me that people get taken in time after time.
Here's something I DID hear from a SHELL EMPLOYEE last week and furthermore, one who might actually know something about it, not just the Saturday boy in the shop - an OPTIMAX TANKER DRIVER delivering the Optimax. How accurate his words are, I can't say personally because I'm not a sucker that believes you get something for nothing. But it's a plausible explanation for all your excitement, and from a credible source. To paraphrase:
"The new replacement for Optimax is called V-Max or V-Power but it is the exact same octane as the old Optimax. The new name is used to bring it into line with European Shell premium fuel, but the main reason for the change is because of a legal issue with a contact lens solution manufacturer who also use the name Optimax."
Now please give it a rest! If Shell ever make a fuel that will trump everything else out there for less money, I can be damn sure that they will make a song and dance about it. The reason they haven't is because they are changing the name but the fuel is the same. I remember that when Optimax first came out, Shell made all sorts of false claims about how it would improve your overtaking and all sorts of bollocks, completely ignoring that a significant number of cars at that time did not have adaptive ECUs that would use - or need -the extra octane, and therefore their claims were full of crap. They managed to hang onto the claim that their 'detergents' were better for all cars, but the claim that all cars would effectively go faster because of the extra octane were quietly dropped. And I'm not going by hearsay, because I was one of the very people who complained about their bull**** in the first place. Octane is octane, not magic.
Once V-Power or V-Max is introduced and Shell advertise the octane rating and it is some incredible 102 race fuel, then if I am wrong I will say so. But in the meantime I won't gullibly believe that huge firms like Shell give a **** about the tiny minority of drivers who need Optimax in their Jap imports or tuned turbos. It's a 'halo' product to make the rest of Shell's operation look slicker and more motorist-orientated - the exact opposite of say Tesco who treat petrol simply as a commodity. Which is exactly as it should be and the reason why we can now choose to get 99 octane fuel from Tescis for virtually the same as Shell charge for normal 95 RON unleaded.
Sorry for the rant, but it just amazes me that people get taken in time after time.
100 Ron.
How do i know, well i live there for a start and i use it all the time in my almost standard UK MY99 (just a full decat and induction kit) It also run's very well on it without any problems at all.
17 August 2006, 03:00 PM
#68
Ed, or more probably his media buying/planning contact, will probably have seen this from the media side where media campaigns have to be planned months ahead of actual launch, and months before any muppet behind a counter or driving a tanker will have heard anything.
All very plausible to me and my car (P1) which is mapped for Optimax and NF has been running sweetly for the last two tankfulls with not a hint of a flash from the knocklink despite severe provocation plus, as mentioned above, I'd take Bob Rawle's and AndyF's comments pretty seriously.
All very plausible to me and my car (P1) which is mapped for Optimax and NF has been running sweetly for the last two tankfulls with not a hint of a flash from the knocklink despite severe provocation plus, as mentioned above, I'd take Bob Rawle's and AndyF's comments pretty seriously.
17 August 2006, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Fat Boy
Ed, or more probably his media buying/planning contact, will probably have seen this from the media side where media campaigns have to be planned months ahead of actual launch, and months before any muppet behind a counter or driving a tanker will have heard anything.
18 August 2006, 07:19 PM
#74
I can confirm the official launch of Shell V-Power.
Wednesday 23rd August
"Shell V-Power, which succeeds the highly successful Shell Optimax brand, will further confirm our leadership in quality fuels and help establish our claim to be the No1. fuels retailer in the world."
Theyre holding an event outside the Shell Centre in London on this launch date, Ferrari Formula One driver Felipe Massa, Ducati MotoGP rider Loris Capirossi and World Super bike rider Troy Bayliss will also be attending.
I cannot confirm what the octane rating is yet.
Wednesday 23rd August
"Shell V-Power, which succeeds the highly successful Shell Optimax brand, will further confirm our leadership in quality fuels and help establish our claim to be the No1. fuels retailer in the world."
Theyre holding an event outside the Shell Centre in London on this launch date, Ferrari Formula One driver Felipe Massa, Ducati MotoGP rider Loris Capirossi and World Super bike rider Troy Bayliss will also be attending.
I cannot confirm what the octane rating is yet.
18 August 2006, 07:28 PM
#75
well, i dont beleive it wil be the same price as optimax, no chance, more RON, more work into the fuel etc for the saame price,yeah right !
tesco 99 it is for me then,not gonna pay silly money again......
its only just gone down to £1.00 a litre, i bet it wil b priced like BP at like £1.08 litre !
tesco 99 it is for me then,not gonna pay silly money again......
its only just gone down to £1.00 a litre, i bet it wil b priced like BP at like £1.08 litre !
18 August 2006, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Cullenmin
I can confirm the official launch of Shell V-Power.
Wednesday 23rd August
"Shell V-Power, which succeeds the highly successful Shell Optimax brand, will further confirm our leadership in quality fuels and help establish our claim to be the No1. fuels retailer in the world."
Theyre holding an event outside the Shell Centre in London on this launch date, Ferrari Formula One driver Felipe Massa, Ducati MotoGP rider Loris Capirossi and World Super bike rider Troy Bayliss will also be attending.
I cannot confirm what the octane rating is yet.
Wednesday 23rd August
"Shell V-Power, which succeeds the highly successful Shell Optimax brand, will further confirm our leadership in quality fuels and help establish our claim to be the No1. fuels retailer in the world."
Theyre holding an event outside the Shell Centre in London on this launch date, Ferrari Formula One driver Felipe Massa, Ducati MotoGP rider Loris Capirossi and World Super bike rider Troy Bayliss will also be attending.
I cannot confirm what the octane rating is yet.
18 August 2006, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by The Rig
well, i dont beleive it wil be the same price as optimax, no chance, more RON, more work into the fuel etc for the saame price,yeah right !
tesco 99 it is for me then,not gonna pay silly money again......
its only just gone down to £1.00 a litre, i bet it wil b priced like BP at like £1.08 litre !
tesco 99 it is for me then,not gonna pay silly money again......
its only just gone down to £1.00 a litre, i bet it wil b priced like BP at like £1.08 litre !
18 August 2006, 10:42 PM
#78
i called into my local shell garage in yarm and asked when v power was coming out the guy said its officially launched 24 aug but thinks yarm garage will probably get the stuff when all the optimax runs out of the onsite underground holders: thinks ron is 102 though he is not 100%sure of that: so there you go all you scooby owners in the teesside area hope that is of some use
18 August 2006, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Wurzel
Tell you what Rannoch you believe what you like, I am just saying what I experienced in MY car on V-power, and bearing in mind MY car is no different to any other EU spec MY00 I would assume that 1) all of them would react the same or 2) I had a duff ecu.
I spoke to Bob Rawle about it and he immediately knew what I was talking about and how to rectify it.
I! unlike some do not feel the need to come on here and spout bull**** or scaremongery I tell it how I have experienced it.
I spoke to Bob Rawle about it and he immediately knew what I was talking about and how to rectify it.
I! unlike some do not feel the need to come on here and spout bull**** or scaremongery I tell it how I have experienced it.
My post was posted as curiousity as this was not MY experience running a MY99 car when I put HIGHER OCTANE fuel in it.
It is not scaremongering or bull**** - it is MY EXPERIENCE - just to be clear.
If there is a problem as I said I was confused as this was NOT MY EXPERIENCE and as I said it would great if some could clarify.
However I do repeat that there is almost certainly a higher octane fuel out there and it is being used by lots of classics. I have not seen any posts about wierd engine behaviour.
I have also not heard of anyone on trips to the Ring having problems when using VPower on the continent.
This is my experience - so I would love to understand specifically what you experienced, as I say based on MY EXPERIENCE I do not know how it can happen. I didn't say it can't I said I didn't know.
19 August 2006, 01:11 AM
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nothing majorly different to add here guys...
i was at a shell in scunny the other day (for those who know the town the one across from asdas) and a nice lady cashier had a plain red t-shirt on. i didnt expect much of an answer, but she suprised me with the amount she did know.
basically what she said was...
"well im here all the time (assuming full time hours?) and all us cashiers have been told the same round this area, that the new v-max/power is officially being launched on august 24th/25th, and it will be a higher octane than optimax. but as far as i know there isnt any of the new stuff in the tanks now"
il keep using tesco untill the new launch and then providing its a higher octane than tesco 99 and a reasonable price compared to the above, i will give her a couple of tank fulls. tesco is 100.9p a litre currently so i would hope round here the "new" v-max/power wont be much more...
andy.
i was at a shell in scunny the other day (for those who know the town the one across from asdas) and a nice lady cashier had a plain red t-shirt on. i didnt expect much of an answer, but she suprised me with the amount she did know.
basically what she said was...
"well im here all the time (assuming full time hours?) and all us cashiers have been told the same round this area, that the new v-max/power is officially being launched on august 24th/25th, and it will be a higher octane than optimax. but as far as i know there isnt any of the new stuff in the tanks now"
il keep using tesco untill the new launch and then providing its a higher octane than tesco 99 and a reasonable price compared to the above, i will give her a couple of tank fulls. tesco is 100.9p a litre currently so i would hope round here the "new" v-max/power wont be much more...
andy.
19 August 2006, 10:10 AM
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Filled up at Mere Green, Sutton Coldfield on Thursday night, and the drive into work on the Friday morning did seem a bit more eager (despite the torrential rain). Looks like their tanks have already been "converted" 
mb
mb
19 August 2006, 02:31 PM
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I filled up at Shell Fleetsbridge last night and got a couple of pleasent suprises... firstly Optimax had dropped from 101.9p to 99.9p which is a step in the right direction and also upon climbing the Dual Carriageway part of the hill by Tower Park Ford noticed the car was producing a touch more go and want than it normally does. I have a Blobeye 2006 STi.
Might have been the temps, but its been 17 degrees a few nights around here now and its never felt as eager as that before (the kinda feeling was like it was running or maintaining a bit more boost.. might not have been but thats what the feeling was like)
Might have been the temps, but its been 17 degrees a few nights around here now and its never felt as eager as that before (the kinda feeling was like it was running or maintaining a bit more boost.. might not have been but thats what the feeling was like)
19 August 2006, 03:31 PM
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You lot should think your selfs lucky that you have a choice of where 2 go on the I.O.W there is 1 texaco garage that sells sul its 106.9p a liter always sold out its only 97ron tescos only sells 95 ron here wish we had a bit of choice
19 August 2006, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Rannoch
.
I am not convinced as I had a MY99 and this was not the case.
The ECU could learn to use worse fuel than the 'intended' map to a very limited extent, hence JDM cars not really doing too well on SUL and very badly on NUL.
The ECU could be reset to use better again to 'lose' it's learning.
I was not aware that the ECU could advance it's map any further to take advantage of fuels, that is the realm of the new age.
I am happy to be corrected, this is my somewhat rusty as it is a long time since I was fiddling with a MY99.
I do agree I am very surprised to hear that better fuel could make a car run badly - we await to be educated.
Rannoch
I am not convinced as I had a MY99 and this was not the case.
The ECU could learn to use worse fuel than the 'intended' map to a very limited extent, hence JDM cars not really doing too well on SUL and very badly on NUL.
The ECU could be reset to use better again to 'lose' it's learning.
I was not aware that the ECU could advance it's map any further to take advantage of fuels, that is the realm of the new age.
I am happy to be corrected, this is my somewhat rusty as it is a long time since I was fiddling with a MY99.
I do agree I am very surprised to hear that better fuel could make a car run badly - we await to be educated.
Rannoch
If however the fuel has other differences such as calorific value, oxygen content, burn rate etc then there could be an effect. A major manufacturer is however unlikely to put a new fuel into Europe that Euro cars can't run on properly !
Regarding the ability of the 99/00 cars to advance/retard then, yes they can.
The difference is that on 99/00 the ignition table numbers relate to degrees retard and on later cars they relate to degrees advance. This is really the same thing, when a 01 onwards car is running with (for example) its maximum of 10 degrees advance, it is the same situation as saying zero retard on a 99
They are all listening to the knock sensor and advancing/retarding to suit.
The control strategy has improved on later cars but the bottom line is that they will all improve performance with rising octane.......up to the maximum level of octane they were designed to operate on.
I'm sure that any new "performance" fuel from Shell will have more than just octane improvements, otherwise 99.9 % of UK cars would not notice any difference whatsoever in performance.
Andy
Last edited by Andy.F; 19 August 2006 at 06:25 PM.
19 August 2006, 07:48 PM
#87
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MY99-00 ecu rom code actually work's in the same way as the new age albeit has a different structure.
Net ignition value = base map plus (compensation map value times advance multiplier) plus/minus fine learning plus/minus knock retard. The Jecs also factor the fuel compensation maps using the advance multiplier as well, zero extra at max advance multipler and maximum extra at minimum advance multiplier.
Its just shown in the software differently that's all.
So an ecu will react up or down within its programmed constraints, since on a remapped car the constraints are set by the tuner as is the "normal" operating point then wether a rom file will allow the ecu to benefit from the latest Shell fuel (which is a different colour, old stuff has amber tinge new stuff does not, and smells differently to Optimax) is all down to that, On the new fuel a Eurospec car running Optimax may gain back some knock retard and any fine learning, an Sti Euro will certainly gain in all areas (assuming factory maps) assuming its been run on Optimax but neither would be as good as a remapped car on its mapped fuel assuming it has been optimaly custom mapped.
David if you have been just using straight Optimax historically your JDM wil definately gain from the new stuff.
That's about it.
cheers
Bob
Net ignition value = base map plus (compensation map value times advance multiplier) plus/minus fine learning plus/minus knock retard. The Jecs also factor the fuel compensation maps using the advance multiplier as well, zero extra at max advance multipler and maximum extra at minimum advance multiplier.
Its just shown in the software differently that's all.
So an ecu will react up or down within its programmed constraints, since on a remapped car the constraints are set by the tuner as is the "normal" operating point then wether a rom file will allow the ecu to benefit from the latest Shell fuel (which is a different colour, old stuff has amber tinge new stuff does not, and smells differently to Optimax) is all down to that, On the new fuel a Eurospec car running Optimax may gain back some knock retard and any fine learning, an Sti Euro will certainly gain in all areas (assuming factory maps) assuming its been run on Optimax but neither would be as good as a remapped car on its mapped fuel assuming it has been optimaly custom mapped.
David if you have been just using straight Optimax historically your JDM wil definately gain from the new stuff.
That's about it.
cheers
Bob
19 August 2006, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Rawle
MY99-00 ecu rom code actually work's in the same way as the new age albeit has a different structure.
Net ignition value = base map plus (compensation map value times advance multiplier) plus/minus fine learning plus/minus knock retard. The Jecs also factor the fuel compensation maps using the advance multiplier as well, zero extra at max advance multipler and maximum extra at minimum advance multiplier.
Its just shown in the software differently that's all.
So an ecu will react up or down within its programmed constraints, since on a remapped car the constraints are set by the tuner as is the "normal" operating point then wether a rom file will allow the ecu to benefit from the latest Shell fuel (which is a different colour, old stuff has amber tinge new stuff does not, and smells differently to Optimax) is all down to that, On the new fuel a Eurospec car running Optimax may gain back some knock retard and any fine learning, an Sti Euro will certainly gain in all areas (assuming factory maps) assuming its been run on Optimax but neither would be as good as a remapped car on its mapped fuel assuming it has been optimaly custom mapped.
David if you have been just using straight Optimax historically your JDM wil definately gain from the new stuff.
That's about it.
cheers
Bob
Net ignition value = base map plus (compensation map value times advance multiplier) plus/minus fine learning plus/minus knock retard. The Jecs also factor the fuel compensation maps using the advance multiplier as well, zero extra at max advance multipler and maximum extra at minimum advance multiplier.
Its just shown in the software differently that's all.
So an ecu will react up or down within its programmed constraints, since on a remapped car the constraints are set by the tuner as is the "normal" operating point then wether a rom file will allow the ecu to benefit from the latest Shell fuel (which is a different colour, old stuff has amber tinge new stuff does not, and smells differently to Optimax) is all down to that, On the new fuel a Eurospec car running Optimax may gain back some knock retard and any fine learning, an Sti Euro will certainly gain in all areas (assuming factory maps) assuming its been run on Optimax but neither would be as good as a remapped car on its mapped fuel assuming it has been optimaly custom mapped.
David if you have been just using straight Optimax historically your JDM wil definately gain from the new stuff.
That's about it.
cheers
Bob
thanks for the reply (and Andy too)
my MY06 car was mapped on BP SUL, has used Optimax and now uses the reputedly new Optimax. With the latest fuel the car really is much improved - the torque is especially much better. The top is probably a little limited in air flow.
My earlier post related to someone posting saying their MY00 had a 'problem' running on Euro Vpower that I did not understand nor expect.
My own experience with my MY99 when I ran it with the JECS was to get smoother running with better fuel (Optimax and NF) but I had no issues even with a whole bottle going in (theoretically up to 7 RON). The fuel would have been at least 100+ RON. I certainly did not experience the boost surging described earlier in this thread.
I would be grateful to be educated in what the mechanism for that is
Rannoch
19 August 2006, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Rawle
David if you have been just using straight Optimax historically your JDM wil definately gain from the new stuff.
Bob
Bob
Originally Posted by Bob Rawle
on a remapped car the constraints are set by the tuner as is the "normal" operating point then wether a rom file will allow the ecu to benefit from the latest Shell fuel
Just for reference. A std UK 99/00 car running on 98 octane Optimax will have maxed out the factory advance on AE800/801 and 802 ECU's and will not benefit from increased octane.
If anyone doubts this then you are welcome to bring your car along and I'll show you the data stored in your ECU.
Andy
Last edited by Andy.F; 19 August 2006 at 09:54 PM.