Scott Lowe Bonnet Dampers - New Group Buy
#31
MAKE YOUR OWN TEA - i'm gonna have to have words with Scott !!!
1. dynamix - newage - stainless
2. 360ste- newage - stainless (I think)
3. Novarally - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
4. Foxley-Rider --- Classic - stainless (SC)
5. sketr1 --------- Classic - stainless
6. Nas sti newage- stainless
7. satpink-classic-stainless
8. scooby-woo-stainless
9. gljam---------Classic - carbon
10. wrx karting steve bugeye - stainless
11. RB5 69 - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
12. Dannybrb5 - Classic (Carbon)
13. NEC newage sti carbon (SIDC)
14. RLE - Newage - (stainless or carbon)
15. p1prodrive - classic - stainless
16. Frenchy - Classic (Carbon) (SIDC)
17.
18.
19.
20.
This is moving fast !!!
1. dynamix - newage - stainless
2. 360ste- newage - stainless (I think)
3. Novarally - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
4. Foxley-Rider --- Classic - stainless (SC)
5. sketr1 --------- Classic - stainless
6. Nas sti newage- stainless
7. satpink-classic-stainless
8. scooby-woo-stainless
9. gljam---------Classic - carbon
10. wrx karting steve bugeye - stainless
11. RB5 69 - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
12. Dannybrb5 - Classic (Carbon)
13. NEC newage sti carbon (SIDC)
14. RLE - Newage - (stainless or carbon)
15. p1prodrive - classic - stainless
16. Frenchy - Classic (Carbon) (SIDC)
17.
18.
19.
20.
This is moving fast !!!
#32
dynamix - newage - stainless
2. 360ste- newage - stainless (I think)
3. Novarally - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
4. Foxley-Rider --- Classic - stainless (SC)
5. sketr1 --------- Classic - stainless
6. Nas sti newage- stainless
7. satpink-classic-stainless
8. scooby-woo-stainless
9. gljam---------Classic - carbon
10. wrx karting steve bugeye - stainless
11. RB5 69 - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
12. Dannybrb5 - Classic (Carbon)
13. NEC newage sti carbon (SIDC)
14. RLE - Newage - (stainless or carbon)
15. p1prodrive - classic - stainless
16. Frenchy - Classic (Carbon) (SIDC)
17. jimmy95wrx - classic-stainless
18.
2. 360ste- newage - stainless (I think)
3. Novarally - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
4. Foxley-Rider --- Classic - stainless (SC)
5. sketr1 --------- Classic - stainless
6. Nas sti newage- stainless
7. satpink-classic-stainless
8. scooby-woo-stainless
9. gljam---------Classic - carbon
10. wrx karting steve bugeye - stainless
11. RB5 69 - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
12. Dannybrb5 - Classic (Carbon)
13. NEC newage sti carbon (SIDC)
14. RLE - Newage - (stainless or carbon)
15. p1prodrive - classic - stainless
16. Frenchy - Classic (Carbon) (SIDC)
17. jimmy95wrx - classic-stainless
18.
#37
1. Dynamix - newage - stainless
2. 360ste- newage - stainless (I think)
3. Novarally - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
4. Foxley-Rider --- Classic - stainless (SC)
5. sketr1 --------- Classic - stainless
6. Nas sti newage- stainless
7. satpink-classic-stainless
8. scooby-woo-stainless
9. gljam---------Classic - carbon
10. wrx karting steve bugeye - stainless
11. RB5 69 - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
12. Dannybrb5 - Classic (Carbon)
13. NEC newage sti carbon (SIDC)
14. RLE - Newage - (stainless or carbon)
15. p1prodrive - classic - stainless
16. Frenchy - Classic (Carbon) (SIDC)
17. jimmy95wrx - classic-stainless
18. FreeT- classic - stainless
2. 360ste- newage - stainless (I think)
3. Novarally - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
4. Foxley-Rider --- Classic - stainless (SC)
5. sketr1 --------- Classic - stainless
6. Nas sti newage- stainless
7. satpink-classic-stainless
8. scooby-woo-stainless
9. gljam---------Classic - carbon
10. wrx karting steve bugeye - stainless
11. RB5 69 - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
12. Dannybrb5 - Classic (Carbon)
13. NEC newage sti carbon (SIDC)
14. RLE - Newage - (stainless or carbon)
15. p1prodrive - classic - stainless
16. Frenchy - Classic (Carbon) (SIDC)
17. jimmy95wrx - classic-stainless
18. FreeT- classic - stainless
#40
Add me too
1. Dynamix - newage - stainless
2. 360ste- newage - stainless (I think)
3. Novarally - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
4. Foxley-Rider --- Classic - stainless (SC)
5. sketr1 --------- Classic - stainless
6. Nas sti newage- stainless
7. satpink-classic-stainless
8. scooby-woo-stainless
9. gljam---------Classic - carbon
10. wrx karting steve bugeye - stainless
11. RB5 69 - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
12. Dannybrb5 - Classic (Carbon)
13. NEC newage sti carbon (SIDC)
14. RLE - Newage - (stainless or carbon)
15. p1prodrive - classic - stainless
16. Frenchy - Classic (Carbon) (SIDC)
17. jimmy95wrx - classic-stainless
18. FreeT- classic - stainless
19. RB5.309 - Classic - stainless
1. Dynamix - newage - stainless
2. 360ste- newage - stainless (I think)
3. Novarally - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
4. Foxley-Rider --- Classic - stainless (SC)
5. sketr1 --------- Classic - stainless
6. Nas sti newage- stainless
7. satpink-classic-stainless
8. scooby-woo-stainless
9. gljam---------Classic - carbon
10. wrx karting steve bugeye - stainless
11. RB5 69 - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
12. Dannybrb5 - Classic (Carbon)
13. NEC newage sti carbon (SIDC)
14. RLE - Newage - (stainless or carbon)
15. p1prodrive - classic - stainless
16. Frenchy - Classic (Carbon) (SIDC)
17. jimmy95wrx - classic-stainless
18. FreeT- classic - stainless
19. RB5.309 - Classic - stainless
#41
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Lanarkshire Gamertag: ScoobyP1
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I see someone mentioned about JDM classic bonnets. As P1's are based on the JDM STI Type-R I assume they are no good for P1's. I really fancy a set but don't want to cause any damage. So do you think it will be ok?
#42
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The Moon
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Count me in.
1. Dynamix - newage - stainless
2. 360ste- newage - stainless (I think)
3. Novarally - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
4. Foxley-Rider --- Classic - stainless (SC)
5. sketr1 --------- Classic - stainless
6. Nas sti newage- stainless
7. satpink-classic-stainless
8. scooby-woo-stainless
9. gljam---------Classic - carbon
10. wrx karting steve bugeye - stainless
11. RB5 69 - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
12. Dannybrb5 - Classic (Carbon)
13. NEC newage sti carbon (SIDC)
14. RLE - Newage - (stainless or carbon)
15. p1prodrive - classic - stainless
16. Frenchy - Classic (Carbon) (SIDC)
17. jimmy95wrx - classic-stainless
18. FreeT- classic - stainless
19. RB5.309 - Classic - stainless
20. MoveOver - Newage - Stainless
1. Dynamix - newage - stainless
2. 360ste- newage - stainless (I think)
3. Novarally - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
4. Foxley-Rider --- Classic - stainless (SC)
5. sketr1 --------- Classic - stainless
6. Nas sti newage- stainless
7. satpink-classic-stainless
8. scooby-woo-stainless
9. gljam---------Classic - carbon
10. wrx karting steve bugeye - stainless
11. RB5 69 - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
12. Dannybrb5 - Classic (Carbon)
13. NEC newage sti carbon (SIDC)
14. RLE - Newage - (stainless or carbon)
15. p1prodrive - classic - stainless
16. Frenchy - Classic (Carbon) (SIDC)
17. jimmy95wrx - classic-stainless
18. FreeT- classic - stainless
19. RB5.309 - Classic - stainless
20. MoveOver - Newage - Stainless
#43
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 352bhp at 1.3 bar heaven
Posts: 553
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1. dynamix - newage - stainless
2. 360ste- newage - stainless (I think)
3. Novarally - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
4. Foxley-Rider --- Classic - stainless (SC)
5. sketr1 --------- Classic - stainless
6. Nas sti newage- stainless
7. satpink-classic-stainless
8. scooby-woo-stainless
9. gljam---------Classic - carbon
10. wrx karting steve bugeye - stainless
11. RB5 69 - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
12. Dannybrb5 - Classic (Carbon)
13. NEC newage sti carbon (SIDC)
14. RLE - Newage - (stainless or carbon)
15. p1prodrive - classic - stainless
16. Dave - JDM classic - carbon
17.
18.
19.
20.
Please confirm that these will be suitable to JDM Classic - thanks Dave
2. 360ste- newage - stainless (I think)
3. Novarally - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
4. Foxley-Rider --- Classic - stainless (SC)
5. sketr1 --------- Classic - stainless
6. Nas sti newage- stainless
7. satpink-classic-stainless
8. scooby-woo-stainless
9. gljam---------Classic - carbon
10. wrx karting steve bugeye - stainless
11. RB5 69 - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
12. Dannybrb5 - Classic (Carbon)
13. NEC newage sti carbon (SIDC)
14. RLE - Newage - (stainless or carbon)
15. p1prodrive - classic - stainless
16. Dave - JDM classic - carbon
17.
18.
19.
20.
Please confirm that these will be suitable to JDM Classic - thanks Dave
#44
1. Dynamix - newage - stainless
2. 360ste- newage - stainless (I think)
3. Novarally - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
4. Foxley-Rider --- Classic - stainless (SC)
5. sketr1 --------- Classic - stainless
6. Nas sti newage- stainless
7. satpink-classic-stainless
8. scooby-woo-stainless
9. gljam---------Classic - carbon
10. wrx karting steve bugeye - stainless
11. RB5 69 - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
12. Dannybrb5 - Classic (Carbon)
13. NEC newage sti carbon (SIDC)
14. RLE - Newage - (stainless or carbon)
15. p1prodrive - classic - stainless
16. Frenchy - Classic (Carbon) (SIDC)
17. jimmy95wrx - classic-stainless
18. FreeT- classic - stainless
19. RB5.309 - Classic - stainless
20. MoveOver - Newage - Stainless
21. Dave - JDM classic - carbon
Official answer on the JDM classic issue:
2. 360ste- newage - stainless (I think)
3. Novarally - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
4. Foxley-Rider --- Classic - stainless (SC)
5. sketr1 --------- Classic - stainless
6. Nas sti newage- stainless
7. satpink-classic-stainless
8. scooby-woo-stainless
9. gljam---------Classic - carbon
10. wrx karting steve bugeye - stainless
11. RB5 69 - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
12. Dannybrb5 - Classic (Carbon)
13. NEC newage sti carbon (SIDC)
14. RLE - Newage - (stainless or carbon)
15. p1prodrive - classic - stainless
16. Frenchy - Classic (Carbon) (SIDC)
17. jimmy95wrx - classic-stainless
18. FreeT- classic - stainless
19. RB5.309 - Classic - stainless
20. MoveOver - Newage - Stainless
21. Dave - JDM classic - carbon
Official answer on the JDM classic issue:
the dampers for the Classic Impreza might be too strong for JDM versions with the ali bonnet, we have a couple of reports of this in the past.
New Age cars have no issues.
New Age cars have no issues.
Last edited by dynamix; 07 April 2006 at 07:43 AM.
#46
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Surrey
Posts: 947
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1. Dynamix - newage - stainless
2. 360ste- newage - stainless (I think)
3. Novarally - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
4. Foxley-Rider --- Classic - stainless (SC)
5. sketr1 --------- Classic - stainless
6. Nas sti newage- stainless
7. satpink-classic-stainless
8. scooby-woo-stainless
9. gljam---------Classic - carbon
10. wrx karting steve bugeye - stainless
11. RB5 69 - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
12. Dannybrb5 - Classic (Carbon)
13. NEC newage sti carbon (SIDC)
14. RLE - Newage - (stainless or carbon)
15. p1prodrive - classic - stainless
16. Frenchy - Classic (Carbon) (SIDC)
17. jimmy95wrx - classic-stainless
18. FreeT- classic - stainless
19. RB5.309 - Classic - stainless
20. MoveOver - Newage - Stainless
21. Dave - JDM classic - carbon
22. Guinness-Classic-(Carbon or Stainless)
2. 360ste- newage - stainless (I think)
3. Novarally - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
4. Foxley-Rider --- Classic - stainless (SC)
5. sketr1 --------- Classic - stainless
6. Nas sti newage- stainless
7. satpink-classic-stainless
8. scooby-woo-stainless
9. gljam---------Classic - carbon
10. wrx karting steve bugeye - stainless
11. RB5 69 - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
12. Dannybrb5 - Classic (Carbon)
13. NEC newage sti carbon (SIDC)
14. RLE - Newage - (stainless or carbon)
15. p1prodrive - classic - stainless
16. Frenchy - Classic (Carbon) (SIDC)
17. jimmy95wrx - classic-stainless
18. FreeT- classic - stainless
19. RB5.309 - Classic - stainless
20. MoveOver - Newage - Stainless
21. Dave - JDM classic - carbon
22. Guinness-Classic-(Carbon or Stainless)
#47
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Bonnie Scotland
Posts: 572
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the whole point of whether or not these are suitable for JDM bonnets is due to the material the bonnets are made from ....
So ....
I would imagine that if you have a JDM classic with an aluminium bonnet (which having lifted both, is a lot lighter) the lifters will be too strong for the lower weight and wont work properly.
Ive seen it mentioned that they are okay for JDM new age cars, so can only assume that the bonnets are a bit heavier than JDM classics.
Im no expert on C/F bonnets, but I would imagine that they will be a lot lighter than standard .... so may not be suitable (but stand to be corrected on this!)
As far as P1's are concerned, im not sure if it came with an aluminium bonnet or the standard steel .... again, someone else may be able to confirm this!
So ....
I would imagine that if you have a JDM classic with an aluminium bonnet (which having lifted both, is a lot lighter) the lifters will be too strong for the lower weight and wont work properly.
Ive seen it mentioned that they are okay for JDM new age cars, so can only assume that the bonnets are a bit heavier than JDM classics.
Im no expert on C/F bonnets, but I would imagine that they will be a lot lighter than standard .... so may not be suitable (but stand to be corrected on this!)
As far as P1's are concerned, im not sure if it came with an aluminium bonnet or the standard steel .... again, someone else may be able to confirm this!
#49
Scooby Newbie
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1. Dynamix - newage - stainless
2. 360ste- newage - stainless (I think)
3. Novarally - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
4. Foxley-Rider --- Classic - stainless (SC)
5. sketr1 --------- Classic - stainless
6. Nas sti newage- stainless
7. satpink-classic-stainless
8. scooby-woo-stainless
9. gljam---------Classic - carbon
10. wrx karting steve bugeye - stainless
11. RB5 69 - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
12. Dannybrb5 - Classic (Carbon)
13. NEC newage sti carbon (SIDC)
14. RLE - Newage - (stainless or carbon)
15. p1prodrive - classic - stainless
16. Frenchy - Classic (Carbon) (SIDC)
17. jimmy95wrx - classic-stainless
18. FreeT- classic - stainless
19. RB5.309 - Classic - stainless
20. MoveOver - Newage - Stainless
21. Dave - JDM classic - carbon
22. Guinness-Classic-(Carbon or Stainless)
23. Typera93 - classic - Carbon
2. 360ste- newage - stainless (I think)
3. Novarally - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
4. Foxley-Rider --- Classic - stainless (SC)
5. sketr1 --------- Classic - stainless
6. Nas sti newage- stainless
7. satpink-classic-stainless
8. scooby-woo-stainless
9. gljam---------Classic - carbon
10. wrx karting steve bugeye - stainless
11. RB5 69 - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
12. Dannybrb5 - Classic (Carbon)
13. NEC newage sti carbon (SIDC)
14. RLE - Newage - (stainless or carbon)
15. p1prodrive - classic - stainless
16. Frenchy - Classic (Carbon) (SIDC)
17. jimmy95wrx - classic-stainless
18. FreeT- classic - stainless
19. RB5.309 - Classic - stainless
20. MoveOver - Newage - Stainless
21. Dave - JDM classic - carbon
22. Guinness-Classic-(Carbon or Stainless)
23. Typera93 - classic - Carbon
#53
1. Dynamix - newage - stainless
2. 360ste- newage - stainless (I think)
3. Novarally - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
4. Foxley-Rider --- Classic - stainless (SC)
5. sketr1 --------- Classic - stainless
6. Nas sti newage- stainless
7. satpink-classic-stainless
8. scooby-woo-stainless
9. gljam---------Classic - carbon
10. wrx karting steve bugeye - stainless
11. RB5 69 - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
12. Dannybrb5 - Classic (Carbon)
13. NEC newage sti carbon (SIDC)
14. RLE - Newage - (stainless or carbon)
15. p1prodrive - classic - stainless
16. Frenchy - Classic (Carbon) (SIDC)
17. jimmy95wrx - classic-stainless
18. FreeT- classic - stainless
19. RB5.309 - Classic - stainless
20. MoveOver - Newage - Stainless
21. Dave - JDM classic - carbon
22. Guinness-Classic-(Carbon or Stainless)
23. Typera93 - classic - Carbon
24. Smoove Mike - Classic - Carbon (SIDC)
2. 360ste- newage - stainless (I think)
3. Novarally - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
4. Foxley-Rider --- Classic - stainless (SC)
5. sketr1 --------- Classic - stainless
6. Nas sti newage- stainless
7. satpink-classic-stainless
8. scooby-woo-stainless
9. gljam---------Classic - carbon
10. wrx karting steve bugeye - stainless
11. RB5 69 - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
12. Dannybrb5 - Classic (Carbon)
13. NEC newage sti carbon (SIDC)
14. RLE - Newage - (stainless or carbon)
15. p1prodrive - classic - stainless
16. Frenchy - Classic (Carbon) (SIDC)
17. jimmy95wrx - classic-stainless
18. FreeT- classic - stainless
19. RB5.309 - Classic - stainless
20. MoveOver - Newage - Stainless
21. Dave - JDM classic - carbon
22. Guinness-Classic-(Carbon or Stainless)
23. Typera93 - classic - Carbon
24. Smoove Mike - Classic - Carbon (SIDC)
Last edited by dynamix; 07 April 2006 at 05:24 PM.
#54
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: 2.1 Spec-C .......Pimms O'clock!!
Posts: 2,726
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1. Dynamix - newage - stainless
2. 360ste- newage - stainless (I think)
3. Novarally - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
4. Foxley-Rider --- Classic - stainless (SC)
5. sketr1 --------- Classic - stainless
6. Nas sti newage- stainless
7. satpink-classic-stainless
8. scooby-woo-stainless
9. gljam---------Classic - carbon
10. wrx karting steve bugeye - stainless
11. RB5 69 - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
12. Dannybrb5 - Classic (Carbon)
13. NEC newage sti carbon (SIDC)
14. RLE - Newage - (stainless or carbon)
15. p1prodrive - classic - stainless
16. Frenchy - Classic (Carbon) (SIDC)
17. jimmy95wrx - classic-stainless
18. FreeT- classic - stainless
19. RB5.309 - Classic - stainless
20. MoveOver - Newage - Stainless
21. Dave - JDM classic - carbon
22. Guinness-Classic-(Carbon or Stainless)
23. Typera93 - classic - Carbon
24. Smoove Mike - Classic - Carbon (SIDC)
25. Kin Quick - Newage - stainless
Well done for sorting this out, have seen these on Spec'C 57's car and they look great and work even better
2. 360ste- newage - stainless (I think)
3. Novarally - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
4. Foxley-Rider --- Classic - stainless (SC)
5. sketr1 --------- Classic - stainless
6. Nas sti newage- stainless
7. satpink-classic-stainless
8. scooby-woo-stainless
9. gljam---------Classic - carbon
10. wrx karting steve bugeye - stainless
11. RB5 69 - Classic (unsure stainless or carbon)
12. Dannybrb5 - Classic (Carbon)
13. NEC newage sti carbon (SIDC)
14. RLE - Newage - (stainless or carbon)
15. p1prodrive - classic - stainless
16. Frenchy - Classic (Carbon) (SIDC)
17. jimmy95wrx - classic-stainless
18. FreeT- classic - stainless
19. RB5.309 - Classic - stainless
20. MoveOver - Newage - Stainless
21. Dave - JDM classic - carbon
22. Guinness-Classic-(Carbon or Stainless)
23. Typera93 - classic - Carbon
24. Smoove Mike - Classic - Carbon (SIDC)
25. Kin Quick - Newage - stainless
Well done for sorting this out, have seen these on Spec'C 57's car and they look great and work even better
#56
Originally Posted by RB5 69
I think the whole point of whether or not these are suitable for JDM bonnets is due to the material the bonnets are made from ....
So ....
I would imagine that if you have a JDM classic with an aluminium bonnet (which having lifted both, is a lot lighter) the lifters will be too strong for the lower weight and wont work properly.
Ive seen it mentioned that they are okay for JDM new age cars, so can only assume that the bonnets are a bit heavier than JDM classics.
Im no expert on C/F bonnets, but I would imagine that they will be a lot lighter than standard .... so may not be suitable (but stand to be corrected on this!)
As far as P1's are concerned, im not sure if it came with an aluminium bonnet or the standard steel .... again, someone else may be able to confirm this!
So ....
I would imagine that if you have a JDM classic with an aluminium bonnet (which having lifted both, is a lot lighter) the lifters will be too strong for the lower weight and wont work properly.
Ive seen it mentioned that they are okay for JDM new age cars, so can only assume that the bonnets are a bit heavier than JDM classics.
Im no expert on C/F bonnets, but I would imagine that they will be a lot lighter than standard .... so may not be suitable (but stand to be corrected on this!)
As far as P1's are concerned, im not sure if it came with an aluminium bonnet or the standard steel .... again, someone else may be able to confirm this!
CF bonnets vary in weight but are generally about half the weight of the standard ones
#58
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: evesham, worcester
Posts: 1,253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i mentioned a carbon bonnet
so what's wrong with them??
do they push the bonnet up when it's closed? does it spring open to quickly whet the bonnet's opened or what??
don't mind it opening a bit quickly but don't really want the lifters bulging my bonnet when it's closed or punching a hole through it
so what's wrong with them??
do they push the bonnet up when it's closed? does it spring open to quickly whet the bonnet's opened or what??
don't mind it opening a bit quickly but don't really want the lifters bulging my bonnet when it's closed or punching a hole through it