Danes upset Islam bigtime
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vava voom smokes dope? Is drug taking allowed in Islam then? How is getting off your t!ts on weed different to getting off your t!ts on booze under the laws of Islam?
Seems strange such a 'devoted' Muslim comes on here wanting to take other posters on for their comments and then advocates drug taking. Is this typical behaviour of the Muslim faith then, violence and drug taking? Or are you not quite the devoted Muslim you like to think you are?
Would like to hear from Aaquil on the topic of this thread as his previous posts on Muslim topics are the most level headed and sensible replies I have read on Scoobynet on such topics.
Seems strange such a 'devoted' Muslim comes on here wanting to take other posters on for their comments and then advocates drug taking. Is this typical behaviour of the Muslim faith then, violence and drug taking? Or are you not quite the devoted Muslim you like to think you are?
Would like to hear from Aaquil on the topic of this thread as his previous posts on Muslim topics are the most level headed and sensible replies I have read on Scoobynet on such topics.
Last edited by Bravo2zero_sps; Feb 3, 2006 at 07:05 AM.
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Originally Posted by Wurzel
So is it true that Diablo is a suicide bomber then? I always thought there was summat odd about him 
I'm completely ****e at it though
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Originally Posted by SJ_Skyline
Watched Newsnight last night. True to form the BBC pansies chickened out of showing the cartoons, choosing instead to show portions of their own artists impresssions.
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I think you're right Suresh. Although it may be wrapped up under a nice shiny PC banner of "Well we didn't want to cause any offence"...
Someone asked yesterday (I think on the BBC debate) are Muslim and Western cultures so different that they are in effect incompatible? While we have loons in positions of power on both sides and publicity for the radical minorities on both sides rather than the moderate majorities there will be problems. I stress both sides here because I believe that exporting extreme Western ideals to Muslim countries is just as wrong as bringing extreme Muslim doctrine to Western countries.
Someone asked yesterday (I think on the BBC debate) are Muslim and Western cultures so different that they are in effect incompatible? While we have loons in positions of power on both sides and publicity for the radical minorities on both sides rather than the moderate majorities there will be problems. I stress both sides here because I believe that exporting extreme Western ideals to Muslim countries is just as wrong as bringing extreme Muslim doctrine to Western countries.
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OK, on a serious note now.
What I find unable to accept is that we are being shown pictures of Muslims of various ages, backgrounds and countries burning Danish and European flags, burning pictures and efigies of Danish and European Leaders and protesting vigerously over what happened.
Now, if you are telling me these are just "extremists" , then I would counter that there a a worryingly high number of "extremists" out there.
On the other hand, I am inclined to believe that outside of the UK at least, these are not actually extremists but your average, if highly charged, Muslims.
And that, perhaps, is even more worrying.
How many british people of any religion were seen protesting in the streets, burning the Iraqi flag, and calling on mass for the head of Saddam Hussain in baying gun toating mobs during the Iraq war?
Or at ANY other act of what we in the uk perceived as outrage?
Clearly some cultures, as opposed perhaps to religions (or again perhaps not) are simply more civilised (for want of a better word) in general and more able to accept that not everyone either shares their point of view or more commonly wants it rammed down their throat?
And if I may just add before anyone jumps in with comments that going to war against Iraq was hardly civilised behavior, A) I wholehartedly agree and B) that act was a decision made by two complete arseholes without a great deal of public support.
Yes, the acts of terrorism in the name of Islam are also carried out by a few arseholes, however, the difference here is that it is all too apparent that those acs of terrorism appear to have much greater support from much greater numbers in the countries of their origins.
Going back to the issue of the cartoons themselves, I understand that it is highly offensive to Muslims to depict Muhammed in any way shape or form, let alone in a cartoon characature.
Fair point, but it wasn't Muslims that were depicting the Prophet, and if you don;t like it, don;t bloody read it.
I'd say it was rather more offensive to have your mates blown to bits by a terrorist bomb, detonated in the name of religion, and yet people in the UK managed to avoid burning flags and efigies in the streets over that.
No one has any right to force their religious beliefs, or make demands on anyone as a result of those beliefs. Period
There is far too little tolerance shown by the Global Muslim Community (and indeed many other religions) of the rights and beliefs of others.
The evidence is there for all with open eyes and minds to see.
What I find unable to accept is that we are being shown pictures of Muslims of various ages, backgrounds and countries burning Danish and European flags, burning pictures and efigies of Danish and European Leaders and protesting vigerously over what happened.
Now, if you are telling me these are just "extremists" , then I would counter that there a a worryingly high number of "extremists" out there.
On the other hand, I am inclined to believe that outside of the UK at least, these are not actually extremists but your average, if highly charged, Muslims.
And that, perhaps, is even more worrying.
How many british people of any religion were seen protesting in the streets, burning the Iraqi flag, and calling on mass for the head of Saddam Hussain in baying gun toating mobs during the Iraq war?
Or at ANY other act of what we in the uk perceived as outrage?
Clearly some cultures, as opposed perhaps to religions (or again perhaps not) are simply more civilised (for want of a better word) in general and more able to accept that not everyone either shares their point of view or more commonly wants it rammed down their throat?
And if I may just add before anyone jumps in with comments that going to war against Iraq was hardly civilised behavior, A) I wholehartedly agree and B) that act was a decision made by two complete arseholes without a great deal of public support.
Yes, the acts of terrorism in the name of Islam are also carried out by a few arseholes, however, the difference here is that it is all too apparent that those acs of terrorism appear to have much greater support from much greater numbers in the countries of their origins.
Going back to the issue of the cartoons themselves, I understand that it is highly offensive to Muslims to depict Muhammed in any way shape or form, let alone in a cartoon characature.
Fair point, but it wasn't Muslims that were depicting the Prophet, and if you don;t like it, don;t bloody read it.
I'd say it was rather more offensive to have your mates blown to bits by a terrorist bomb, detonated in the name of religion, and yet people in the UK managed to avoid burning flags and efigies in the streets over that.
No one has any right to force their religious beliefs, or make demands on anyone as a result of those beliefs. Period
There is far too little tolerance shown by the Global Muslim Community (and indeed many other religions) of the rights and beliefs of others.
The evidence is there for all with open eyes and minds to see.
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Originally Posted by Leslie
Its hardly surprising that the Muslims are upset at cartoons of Muhammed. It shows disrespect and naturally enough that is important to them. Very unwise to do that in my opinion.
New_scooby_04,
I also would have no time for any supporters of a religion who advocate violence as you say. That does not mean the the actual religion itself is recommending such action, it is purely down to people for their own ends.
If you look into it you will find that religions do not include such actions in their required way of living your life.
Les
New_scooby_04,
I also would have no time for any supporters of a religion who advocate violence as you say. That does not mean the the actual religion itself is recommending such action, it is purely down to people for their own ends.
If you look into it you will find that religions do not include such actions in their required way of living your life.
Les
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There are more and more comments from people, on this thread alone, forget the rest of the World, that continue to simply tar the whole global Muslim population (approx 1 billion or so) with the same brush.
If you cannot see why that is wrong then you are the one with the problem.
Think of the absolute worst example of a native British person, say Fred West? Then say that "Well, obviously all Brits are like him!" How does that sound? Is that not offensive?
More people need to make sensible comments instead of being Judge and Jury on a major part of the World population, just because they saw some people burning a flag.
If you cannot see why that is wrong then you are the one with the problem.
Think of the absolute worst example of a native British person, say Fred West? Then say that "Well, obviously all Brits are like him!" How does that sound? Is that not offensive?
More people need to make sensible comments instead of being Judge and Jury on a major part of the World population, just because they saw some people burning a flag.
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From: The Ghetto's of the Midlands!!!!!
Originally Posted by AsifScoob
Interesting question, but I have a few in response:
Are you referring to the 'leaders' of the faith, or to ordinary folk? As an ordinary Muslim, If I met someone who wanted me to help them build a bomb, i'd be calling 999 straight away, if I met 'just' a nutter, who was going on about the evil west/should all burn in hell/should all die etc etc, I'd have a go at talking sense (I have done this before), or more likely I would do what any normal person would do and walk the other way. What else would you expect me to do?
How are these people to be identified? I dont think this is so easy. Islam teaches that the greatest enemies of Islam are within, never a truer word spoken. I, personally, view this type of religious extremism, in Islam or any other faith, as akin to a cancer, in the way that it is hidden, but also spreads.
Just my opinion of course, but I do believe that generalisations in this area are wrong and will only cause more problems. Look at some of the comments just on here?
It does appear that many people are very happy to use this to just have a pop. That is bound to get peoples' backs up in response (perhaps the desired response?)
Would you not agree that, in the past, the reputation of football supporters has been sullied by a few hooligans? This situation has some parallels, in my opinion.
FWIW, I do not believe that people should get so offended by some cartoons, certainly not to react with violence, or even to threaten violence. Islam is big enough to take this sort of thing on the chin.
I do believe however, that a lot of Muslims (me included) are feeling quite defensive about their faith right now and have to swallow hard to be able to take a lot of criticism. Young muslims for instance are being politicised by this and other events you see on the media, this just adds fuel to the fire.
Not sure what the end will be.
Just my tuppence
Asif
Are you referring to the 'leaders' of the faith, or to ordinary folk? As an ordinary Muslim, If I met someone who wanted me to help them build a bomb, i'd be calling 999 straight away, if I met 'just' a nutter, who was going on about the evil west/should all burn in hell/should all die etc etc, I'd have a go at talking sense (I have done this before), or more likely I would do what any normal person would do and walk the other way. What else would you expect me to do?
How are these people to be identified? I dont think this is so easy. Islam teaches that the greatest enemies of Islam are within, never a truer word spoken. I, personally, view this type of religious extremism, in Islam or any other faith, as akin to a cancer, in the way that it is hidden, but also spreads.
Just my opinion of course, but I do believe that generalisations in this area are wrong and will only cause more problems. Look at some of the comments just on here?
It does appear that many people are very happy to use this to just have a pop. That is bound to get peoples' backs up in response (perhaps the desired response?)
Would you not agree that, in the past, the reputation of football supporters has been sullied by a few hooligans? This situation has some parallels, in my opinion.
FWIW, I do not believe that people should get so offended by some cartoons, certainly not to react with violence, or even to threaten violence. Islam is big enough to take this sort of thing on the chin.
I do believe however, that a lot of Muslims (me included) are feeling quite defensive about their faith right now and have to swallow hard to be able to take a lot of criticism. Young muslims for instance are being politicised by this and other events you see on the media, this just adds fuel to the fire.
Not sure what the end will be.
Just my tuppence
Asif
JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE A MUSLIM YOU ARE NOT A SUICIDE BOMBER.
Ok, I get it.
What angers me (and I assume many more like me) is this;
2005: London's Tate Britain museum cancels plans to display sculpture by John Latham for fear of offending Muslims after July bombings (from the article at the start of the thread)
Why is it that CERTAIN representatives of the Muslim faith can blow up our friends, and have police protection outside certain mosques in London, but there cannot be an art exhibition held in case we anger the Muslim population?
Do you not think that we deserve to be able to do something like that after we have been bombed?I would also like to pose a question to you,
What would happen if white boys started walking the streets of Islamabad with a few kilos of semtex wrapped round them?
Would they even be noticed, as it seems most people are up to it over there?
(not meant to cause offence to anyone).
Dan.
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Originally Posted by _RIP_
Aaquil? Do you mean Asif?
However he is also very passionate about his faith and if I were to guess, I would say he is probably fed up with coming here and reading what some people post.
I would have some sympathy with that viewpoint.
Asif
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Originally Posted by danwrx1980
Hi mate, I understand your points, and in the end it boils down to this IMHO ,
JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE A MUSLIM YOU ARE NOT A SUICIDE BOMBER.
Ok, I get it.
What angers me (and I assume many more like me) is this;
2005: London's Tate Britain museum cancels plans to display sculpture by John Latham for fear of offending Muslims after July bombings (from the article at the start of the thread)
Why is it that CERTAIN representatives of the Muslim faith can blow up our friends, and have police protection outside certain mosques in London, but there cannot be an art exhibition held in case we anger the Muslim population?
Do you not think that we deserve to be able to do something like that after we have been bombed?I would also like to pose a question to you,
What would happen if white boys started walking the streets of Islamabad with a few kilos of semtex wrapped round them?
Would they even be noticed, as it seems most people are up to it over there?
(not meant to cause offence to anyone).
Dan.
JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE A MUSLIM YOU ARE NOT A SUICIDE BOMBER.
Ok, I get it.
What angers me (and I assume many more like me) is this;
2005: London's Tate Britain museum cancels plans to display sculpture by John Latham for fear of offending Muslims after July bombings (from the article at the start of the thread)
Why is it that CERTAIN representatives of the Muslim faith can blow up our friends, and have police protection outside certain mosques in London, but there cannot be an art exhibition held in case we anger the Muslim population?
Do you not think that we deserve to be able to do something like that after we have been bombed?I would also like to pose a question to you,
What would happen if white boys started walking the streets of Islamabad with a few kilos of semtex wrapped round them?
Would they even be noticed, as it seems most people are up to it over there?
(not meant to cause offence to anyone).
Dan.
Asif
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Originally Posted by AsifScoob
There are more and more comments from people, on this thread alone, forget the rest of the World, that continue to simply tar the whole global Muslim population (approx 1 billion or so) with the same brush.
If you cannot see why that is wrong then you are the one with the problem.
Think of the absolute worst example of a native British person, say Fred West? Then say that "Well, obviously all Brits are like him!" How does that sound? Is that not offensive?
More people need to make sensible comments instead of being Judge and Jury on a major part of the World population, just because they saw some people burning a flag.
If you cannot see why that is wrong then you are the one with the problem.
Think of the absolute worst example of a native British person, say Fred West? Then say that "Well, obviously all Brits are like him!" How does that sound? Is that not offensive?
More people need to make sensible comments instead of being Judge and Jury on a major part of the World population, just because they saw some people burning a flag.
If those comments are directed at my post above, you are not reading it as intended.
I am not stereotyping every Muslim as an extremist. There are, however, clearly hige cultural differences in behavour and reaction among large numbers of those communities.
You were born in the Uk as a British citizen, IIRC, just as I was. Your experiences of the what happens in the rest of the world are, more than likely, based on similar exposure to the various media available.
And yet it appears that we see the same things differently.
The real question is "why?"
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D, you said about people on TV - don't forget that journalists go looking for trouble to film it. In Portugal in Euro2004 there were British journalists actually offering money to Brits in Albufeira to throw a few chairs about on camera, so that they could run their publicly-awaited "Brit hooligans as usual" shock.
Don't believe that what you see on TV is a fair representation of the truth.
As for not seeing any support of the war against Saddam - you've got to be kidding? IIRC all the polls showed over 50% of support by the (misled) British public at the time, and NSR was absolutely seething with "we should nuke them back to the stone age" posts.
As usual, I don't see anybody talking about two sets of (Irish) Christians trying to kill each other for 30 years (or 300). What kind of a religion permits people spitting and hurling vitriolic insults at 8-yr-old schoolgirls as they try to walk to school in the morning? Remember that, only a few years ago? Doubtless some of our Norn Irn clan will be able to remind us which school.
BTW how often did the Pope tell the IRA to stop bombing?
Don't believe that what you see on TV is a fair representation of the truth.
As for not seeing any support of the war against Saddam - you've got to be kidding? IIRC all the polls showed over 50% of support by the (misled) British public at the time, and NSR was absolutely seething with "we should nuke them back to the stone age" posts.
As usual, I don't see anybody talking about two sets of (Irish) Christians trying to kill each other for 30 years (or 300). What kind of a religion permits people spitting and hurling vitriolic insults at 8-yr-old schoolgirls as they try to walk to school in the morning? Remember that, only a few years ago? Doubtless some of our Norn Irn clan will be able to remind us which school.
BTW how often did the Pope tell the IRA to stop bombing?
Last edited by Brendan Hughes; Feb 3, 2006 at 10:10 AM.
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Originally Posted by Brendan Hughes
D, you said about people on TV - don't forget that journalists go looking for trouble to film it. In Portugal in Euro2004 there were British journalists actually offering money to Brits in Albufeira to throw a few chairs about on camera, so that they could run their publicly-awaited "Brit hooligans as usual" shock.
As for not seeing any support of the war against Saddam - you've got to be kidding? IIRC all the polls showed over 50% of support by the (misled) British public at the time, and NSR was absolutely seething with "we should nuke them back to the stone age" posts.
As usual, I don't see anybody talking about two sets of (Irish) Christians trying to kill each other for 30 years (or 300). What kind of a religion permits people spitting and hurling vitriolic insults at 8-yr-old schoolgirls as they try to walk to school in the morning? Remember that, only a few years ago? Doubtless some of our Norn Irn clan will be able to remind us which school.
Seems that some people on this thread cannot distinguish between race and religion!
I find it incredulous that anyone with half a brain cell would not get the irony of this situation. Religion, by and large, where someone puts there faith in an intangible parent-figure (be it God, Mohamed et al) has to be the most ludicrous idea when you rationalise it!
There's no substance to religion, it's merely a belief structure that forces people to think and act a certain way to appease their 'god'. If you cannot satirise the atrocities carried out in the name of <insert your chosen daiety> without fear of causing offence then all rational common-sense does appear to have vanished.
I find it incredulous that anyone with half a brain cell would not get the irony of this situation. Religion, by and large, where someone puts there faith in an intangible parent-figure (be it God, Mohamed et al) has to be the most ludicrous idea when you rationalise it!
There's no substance to religion, it's merely a belief structure that forces people to think and act a certain way to appease their 'god'. If you cannot satirise the atrocities carried out in the name of <insert your chosen daiety> without fear of causing offence then all rational common-sense does appear to have vanished.
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Bring back Spitting Image !!! that would give these muslim freaks sumat to complain about
Everyone on that got ridiculed including the pope, our royal family and also the PM and the US president. nobody was safe and it was classic.
PS I have the pics if anyone wants them just mail me your address. and TBH I can not see what the fuss was about they are not even funny.
Everyone on that got ridiculed including the pope, our royal family and also the PM and the US president. nobody was safe and it was classic.
PS I have the pics if anyone wants them just mail me your address. and TBH I can not see what the fuss was about they are not even funny.
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The worrying thing about all of this is that the people who are unable to think for themselves are slowly but surely being indoctrinated with lack of tolerance of other race/religions. At present we are seeing one side of the problem with flag burning/signs saying Death to whoever(outside BBC last night) and demonstrations.
The worry will be if other people start to react in the same way as this. Can you imagine if demos take place against muslims etc. There are a lot of people in this country alone that believe all they read in papers like the Sun. The boundaries can be so easily blurred from religion to race and vice versa.
Glad I live up here where only Rangers/Celtic/catholic/protestants are the issue.
The worry will be if other people start to react in the same way as this. Can you imagine if demos take place against muslims etc. There are a lot of people in this country alone that believe all they read in papers like the Sun. The boundaries can be so easily blurred from religion to race and vice versa.
Glad I live up here where only Rangers/Celtic/catholic/protestants are the issue.
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Originally Posted by vava voom
STILLOVERE....In the news it said it was feared MUSLIMS would be offended....DID YOU SEE 1MUSLIM COMPLAIN??????NO Your stupid government has implemented this and thats your problem
That's my point. They banned Christmas plays "Incase" they insulted a Muslim. We are now at a stage in this country that "we" should respect Muslims and their faith. Now, surely it should work both ways should it not ???? Why should a Muslim get upset and insulted at British kids doing what generations of British kids had done for, well, generations.
I would not go and live in a Muslim faithed country, then demand that they ban all there religious rituals, just cos I might be affended.
What I think this all boils down to is Humour. We (Westerners) are able to laugh at ourselfes. We joke about the Scotish, Irish, Welsh, English, America's etc, etc. What would happen if the IRA went out killing anyone who said a Paddy joke. What a ******* sad world we would live in then.
Muslims should learn to be more tolerant of what others think. They should step back and really ask themselves if they are really offended, see the funny side of things and just get over it.
Just like this thread. There are a few Muslims on here that are saying that if we do not agree with them, then we are all Racist. Are we ???
We must agree with Muslims, but Muslims don't have to agree with us. Yeh, right. Stop playing the Racist card......... it's ******* boring.
STILOVER..it seems you a bit thick so i will make it clear for you!
YOUR STUPID GOVERNMENT HAS ACTIONED THESE CHANGES NOT THE MUSLIMS....FIRST THE MUSLIMS HEAR ABOUT THE CHANGES IS WHEN A STUPID FOOL LIKE YOURSELF IS CRYING ABOUT IT!!
SO IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM PLEASE....WRITE TO YOUR PM BECOUSE CRYING AT MUSLIMS IS NOT GOING TO RESOLVE THE MATTER!!
As for being able to take a joke.....let me draw a picture of JESUS TAKING IT UP THE A** AND MARY DOING IT WITH A DONKEY..and at this point we will see who can take a joke
YOUR STUPID GOVERNMENT HAS ACTIONED THESE CHANGES NOT THE MUSLIMS....FIRST THE MUSLIMS HEAR ABOUT THE CHANGES IS WHEN A STUPID FOOL LIKE YOURSELF IS CRYING ABOUT IT!!
SO IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM PLEASE....WRITE TO YOUR PM BECOUSE CRYING AT MUSLIMS IS NOT GOING TO RESOLVE THE MATTER!!
As for being able to take a joke.....let me draw a picture of JESUS TAKING IT UP THE A** AND MARY DOING IT WITH A DONKEY..and at this point we will see who can take a joke
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Originally Posted by vava voom
As for being able to take a joke.....let me draw a picture of JESUS TAKING IT UP THE A** AND MARY DOING IT WITH A DONKEY..and at this point we will see who can take a joke
thats a bit anti donkey isnt it?
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From: Here, There, Everywhere
Originally Posted by vava voom
As for being able to take a joke.....let me draw a picture of JESUS TAKING IT UP THE A** AND MARY DOING IT WITH A DONKEY..and at this point we will see who can take a joke
Plus, it wasn't the government who banned Christmas plays, it was the schools themselves.
See you never gave a comment regarding the wearing of religious symbols.
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That original post by AsifScoob is a particularly good reply and also backs up what I have been saying about pure religious teachings and the violence which has been committed in the name of religion.
I would think that those who advocate terrorism in the name of the religion are probably in a position of power which cannot be coped with by the moderate leaders who might even be in personal danger if they were to try to stop them. There could be all sorts of reasons to prevent the moderates from doing what they want for all we know.
Once there used to be something called "tact". Don't see much of that any more. People are too keen to jump on the bandwagon and say and do things which can cause unecessary distress to others purely for their own selfish reasons. Either to make capital out of it for monetary reasons or maybe just in an attempt to bolster up their own deficient personalities.
In the days when Tact still existed, people were more polite and friendly towards each other instead of feeling they had to take advantage whenever they could as in today's overly competitive world.
People used to think twice before doing something that might cause someone else a problem for no good reason. Maybe a bit of tact in this case would have been a much better attitude to take. It has done no one any good at all.
Don't think for one moment that I believe we should subjugate our own culture and beliefs to the requirements of the way of life of non Christians or immigrant peoples as is ordered by the PC dictators. I do believe that tolerance, tact and acceptance of their requirements for their cultures is important as long as is does not demand us to change in any way or interfere with our own way of life.
New_STi_04,
Thanks for your reply which straightened it all up for me.
Les
I would think that those who advocate terrorism in the name of the religion are probably in a position of power which cannot be coped with by the moderate leaders who might even be in personal danger if they were to try to stop them. There could be all sorts of reasons to prevent the moderates from doing what they want for all we know.
Once there used to be something called "tact". Don't see much of that any more. People are too keen to jump on the bandwagon and say and do things which can cause unecessary distress to others purely for their own selfish reasons. Either to make capital out of it for monetary reasons or maybe just in an attempt to bolster up their own deficient personalities.
In the days when Tact still existed, people were more polite and friendly towards each other instead of feeling they had to take advantage whenever they could as in today's overly competitive world.
People used to think twice before doing something that might cause someone else a problem for no good reason. Maybe a bit of tact in this case would have been a much better attitude to take. It has done no one any good at all.
Don't think for one moment that I believe we should subjugate our own culture and beliefs to the requirements of the way of life of non Christians or immigrant peoples as is ordered by the PC dictators. I do believe that tolerance, tact and acceptance of their requirements for their cultures is important as long as is does not demand us to change in any way or interfere with our own way of life.
New_STi_04,
Thanks for your reply which straightened it all up for me.
Les
Last edited by Leslie; Feb 3, 2006 at 01:52 PM.
