Searching for the perfect Chassis
08 August 2005, 05:59 PM
#31
Hello Carl:
I think the times will come when the chassis inpires confidence to dive deeper still into the twisty bits with the car stable ready for the dive onto the brakes deep into the bend (sounds like a deep sea diving exercise)
As Floyd is finding the AST's are very smooth and keep the car so flat too with the roll bars, but i think he only has a rear bar on his car.
There is a lot to do to find more, and the real test will be when the car goes on slicks (crossplies!) and super stiff walls.
Hope to have some pics at the end of the weekend showing some 'attitudes' on the hill.
Hope the house is coming on well!
Graham.
I think the times will come when the chassis inpires confidence to dive deeper still into the twisty bits with the car stable ready for the dive onto the brakes deep into the bend (sounds like a deep sea diving exercise)
As Floyd is finding the AST's are very smooth and keep the car so flat too with the roll bars, but i think he only has a rear bar on his car.
There is a lot to do to find more, and the real test will be when the car goes on slicks (crossplies!) and super stiff walls.
Hope to have some pics at the end of the weekend showing some 'attitudes' on the hill.
Hope the house is coming on well!
Graham.
13 August 2005, 06:13 PM
#32
Just got back from practice day; racing tomorrow.
Set the tyre pressures at 26 psi all-round, and the AST's at 7/12 clicks front from max soft. Rears to 5/12 clicks from max soft.
The 'jiggle/bouncing' has gone and the car on the hill climb was very very tight and very directional, realy nice.
Then it poured down and some more.
On a saturated track I dropped the damping to 3/12 front and 2/12 rear and was only 3 seconds slower than in the first run (dry track)
My fellow class competitors were 9 seconds slower than their dry times.
The Cossie in the class is a real bruiser; it has a v6 Cosworth lump and twin turbos with 4'' down pipes! Estimated to be 580+ bhp.....
Fully stripped out it weighs 1100Kg so about 500 bhp/ton so my Sti is about 325 bhp/ton.
Why does this always happen to me?
Anyway, he fell off on his third run trying to catch me.
Should be dry and 20 Deg C tomorrow so a tough time ahead!
Better pics tomorrow I hope (wife did the snaps)
What about this one!
Graham
Set the tyre pressures at 26 psi all-round, and the AST's at 7/12 clicks front from max soft. Rears to 5/12 clicks from max soft.
The 'jiggle/bouncing' has gone and the car on the hill climb was very very tight and very directional, realy nice.
Then it poured down and some more.
On a saturated track I dropped the damping to 3/12 front and 2/12 rear and was only 3 seconds slower than in the first run (dry track)
My fellow class competitors were 9 seconds slower than their dry times.
The Cossie in the class is a real bruiser; it has a v6 Cosworth lump and twin turbos with 4'' down pipes! Estimated to be 580+ bhp.....
Fully stripped out it weighs 1100Kg so about 500 bhp/ton so my Sti is about 325 bhp/ton.
Why does this always happen to me?
Anyway, he fell off on his third run trying to catch me.
Should be dry and 20 Deg C tomorrow so a tough time ahead!
Better pics tomorrow I hope (wife did the snaps
)What about this one!
Graham
Last edited by 911; 13 August 2005 at 06:18 PM.
14 August 2005, 09:16 PM
#34
Back from race doy.
The Cossie V6 came good, but i gave him hell!
Was ahead of him this morning but the sun came out (you should have danced harder Mark) and the 580 bhp/4 x 4/slicks told and he ended up a full 1.5 seconds faster..
'The Problem'
The car went well but i felt it was very 'laggy' more than i can recall. The effort in the second run had me well off the black stuff and mud/grass everywhere, but the car literally bounced back onto the track and composeure returned...(ish)
The next few bends were hard, the car lacked composeure (my fault) and the 'flow' was gone.
Each bend was full attack and the scrabble that resulted please the crowds and pissed me off.
So, second in class, 6 points in the bad and now the focus is Shelsley Walsh next week end close to Worcester and the EVO is there.....why me?
I will need to drive the car well as the track is sooooooo narrow and sooooo scarey there is NO room for any errors...:norty;
Anyway, there are things to change.
I cant help but think I need some stiffer springs off Powerstation, I felt I couldn't lean on the car hard but I was only 3/10's of a second off my personal best, so maybe not too bad.
Damit! the trophy was really nice also for 1st, but the class was so small there was not a second place pot!
Some shots from the day/weekend:
3 seconds quicker than me..
But I was 3 seconds quicker than this!
Variety:
This was only 7 seconds slower than me...
Hill climbing; don't you just love it!
Must try harder
Mug shot insisted on by my petrol-head daughter....sorry
If you had just lost you would look/feel like this too!
Graham
The Cossie V6 came good, but i gave him hell!
Was ahead of him this morning but the sun came out (you should have danced harder Mark) and the 580 bhp/4 x 4/slicks told and he ended up a full 1.5 seconds faster..
'The Problem'
The car went well but i felt it was very 'laggy' more than i can recall. The effort in the second run had me well off the black stuff and mud/grass everywhere, but the car literally bounced back onto the track and composeure returned...(ish)
The next few bends were hard, the car lacked composeure (my fault) and the 'flow' was gone.
Each bend was full attack and the scrabble that resulted please the crowds and pissed me off.
So, second in class, 6 points in the bad and now the focus is Shelsley Walsh next week end close to Worcester and the EVO is there.....why me?
I will need to drive the car well as the track is sooooooo narrow and sooooo scarey there is NO room for any errors...:norty;
Anyway, there are things to change.
I cant help but think I need some stiffer springs off Powerstation, I felt I couldn't lean on the car hard but I was only 3/10's of a second off my personal best, so maybe not too bad.
Damit! the trophy was really nice also for 1st, but the class was so small there was not a second place pot!
Some shots from the day/weekend:
3 seconds quicker than me..
But I was 3 seconds quicker than this!
Variety:
This was only 7 seconds slower than me...
Hill climbing; don't you just love it!
Must try harder
Mug shot insisted on by my petrol-head daughter....sorry
If you had just lost you would look/feel like this too!
Graham
Last edited by 911; 14 August 2005 at 09:20 PM.
15 August 2005, 01:29 PM
#35
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Well done G 
I don't see how you can be disapointed with second aganist that!!
Just think if you had the power of the Seirra you would have been competeing with the Quattro
At least I know who to look out for now with the mug shot
I don't see how you can be disapointed with second aganist that!!
Just think if you had the power of the Seirra you would have been competeing with the Quattro
At least I know who to look out for now with the mug shot
15 August 2005, 05:57 PM
#36
He ran in program order so was right in front of me.
You should have seen it leave the start line...
Maybe that's what i actually need:
My car with 2.5/Zen gearbox/no interior of any sort
Radiator in the back for a HUGE FMIC
What i don't need as a result:
£3K + £2.5K + £1K for misc work + £2K for a trailer
What i would get though:
No more annual insurance costs
Massive savings in fuel
Deaf
1.5 seconds faster.
Crazy game motorsport.
Graham
You should have seen it leave the start line...
Maybe that's what i actually need:
My car with 2.5/Zen gearbox/no interior of any sort
Radiator in the back for a HUGE FMIC
What i don't need as a result:
£3K + £2.5K + £1K for misc work + £2K for a trailer
What i would get though:
No more annual insurance costs
Massive savings in fuel
Deaf
1.5 seconds faster.
Crazy game motorsport.
Graham
15 August 2005, 09:35 PM
#39
Thanks and Yes!
Just looked very carefully at some other pics and the rear wheel of the car looks to be lifting again on the unloaded side.....
Still think I need stiffer springs. Have asked Powerstation if they have some about 10% stiffer.
Graham.
Just looked very carefully at some other pics and the rear wheel of the car looks to be lifting again on the unloaded side.....
Still think I need stiffer springs. Have asked Powerstation if they have some about 10% stiffer.
Graham.
16 August 2005, 07:56 PM
#40
Would stiffening the bump setting be of use, and easing off the rebound? Are these AST's bump and rebound adjustable, as well as height?
I'd also lower the car a few mm too.
I'd also lower the car a few mm too.
16 August 2005, 09:02 PM
#41
Neil:
The ones I have are only bump, and I agree, in the dry a notch or 2 might help. will be trying this at Shelsley this weekend.
The car is as low as I dare simply because I can only just get my jack under the diff and front crossmember to jack-up to change the wheels at every meeting!
Got to be practical.....
ps: also after the 'off' on sunday where I went into the scenary and popped (jumped) back out I do need some suspension travel......gulp.
Graham
The ones I have are only bump, and I agree, in the dry a notch or 2 might help. will be trying this at Shelsley this weekend.
The car is as low as I dare simply because I can only just get my jack under the diff and front crossmember to jack-up to change the wheels at every meeting!
Got to be practical.....
ps: also after the 'off' on sunday where I went into the scenary and popped (jumped) back out I do need some suspension travel......gulp.
Graham
16 August 2005, 09:12 PM
#42
Bah, you just need a quick lift jack on the sill points! 
Or use the old wind up sill jack....
And anyway, you are meant to be on the black stuff, and I assume the AST's give some travel for the odd off, more if you lower the lower spring mounting point!
Or use the old wind up sill jack....
And anyway, you are meant to be on the black stuff, and I assume the AST's give some travel for the odd off, more if you lower the lower spring mounting point!
16 August 2005, 09:30 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by 911
The ones I have are only bump
17 August 2005, 11:03 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by 911
I may have missed it but what sort of times were you putting in through the weekend? I find it impressive that the Sierra was 1.5 seconds faster and the Quattro 3 seconds. Obviously i've little to no experience of hill climbs/sprints but i'd always expected the competition to be much closer. I realise the Quattro is in a different class but surely we're talking longer than +/- 1 minute times?
17 August 2005, 12:47 PM
#46
Cheeeeekyy bast@ds!
Yes, I'm the oldest Impreza driver and racer in the UK (maybe a new thread?)
That aside, the techie bit:
The hill climb at Loton (try www.hdlcc.com) is about a mile long.
In our class at 'my' level a decent time is 61/60/59 seconds.
My personal best in the dry is 59.6 as the car is today.
My car is fully trimmed, MoT tax etc and driven there and back, about 3000 miles a year. Tyres are List 1b Kumho, street legal road tyres, buy them anywhere today.
The class can now run fully stripped/slicks but pump fuel.
The record holder runs an EVO 5 RS on list 1b tyres and probably race fuel (trailers the car) and holds a 57 second pass. He has about 450/480 bhp.
The Audi is a replica short wheelbase and ANYTHING goes. He ran 57's at the same meeting.(approx 600 bhp)
Not sure if that explains things, but you have just 2 runs on race day, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. Best time counts. One mistake (missed gear etc or an off) will cost about 2 seconds to recover from.
The sport is one of precision straight away, there are no opportunities to have another lap to improve. Bit like a short tarmac special stage but simpler.
From the Golden Oldie...
Bet I know what your dads have to put up with.
Graham
Yes, I'm the oldest Impreza driver and racer in the UK (maybe a new thread?)
That aside, the techie bit:
The hill climb at Loton (try www.hdlcc.com) is about a mile long.
In our class at 'my' level a decent time is 61/60/59 seconds.
My personal best in the dry is 59.6 as the car is today.
My car is fully trimmed, MoT tax etc and driven there and back, about 3000 miles a year. Tyres are List 1b Kumho, street legal road tyres, buy them anywhere today.
The class can now run fully stripped/slicks but pump fuel.
The record holder runs an EVO 5 RS on list 1b tyres and probably race fuel (trailers the car) and holds a 57 second pass. He has about 450/480 bhp.
The Audi is a replica short wheelbase and ANYTHING goes. He ran 57's at the same meeting.(approx 600 bhp)
Not sure if that explains things, but you have just 2 runs on race day, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. Best time counts. One mistake (missed gear etc or an off) will cost about 2 seconds to recover from.
The sport is one of precision straight away, there are no opportunities to have another lap to improve. Bit like a short tarmac special stage but simpler.
From the Golden Oldie...
Bet I know what your dads have to put up with.
Graham
Last edited by 911; 17 August 2005 at 12:50 PM.
17 August 2005, 03:34 PM
#47
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The AST's are Bump and Rebound adjustable, but both are done together (single adjuster). Unless they've changed them since last year when I got mine.
I'm surprised that running your car so low you haven't bottomed out the dampers. Looks like I might have to try harder springs in mine.
Dave.
I'm surprised that running your car so low you haven't bottomed out the dampers. Looks like I might have to try harder springs in mine.
Dave.
17 August 2005, 06:04 PM
#48
Never had the suspension bottom.
I have 50/40 springs but will soon try 60/50 as the car is really a weekend warrior.
Didn't realise that the adjuster is a double acting bias screw, that might answer a few 'feelings' I had last weekend while trying different things!
The off I had was quite fast (4500 in 3rd) and over some rough banking, but all is well.
Graham.
I have 50/40 springs but will soon try 60/50 as the car is really a weekend warrior.
Didn't realise that the adjuster is a double acting bias screw, that might answer a few 'feelings' I had last weekend while trying different things!
The off I had was quite fast (4500 in 3rd) and over some rough banking, but all is well.
Graham.
18 August 2005, 08:18 AM
#50
I've bottomed the suspension at about 110-120mph at Fuchsrohre. No real drama in that and it didn't unsettle the car. I am getting some wheel to wheel arch rubbing action though in Karussell but this sounds a LOT worse that the damage.
I am considering raising the car 5mm. Maybe I should try your 50/40 springs???
F
I am considering raising the car 5mm. Maybe I should try your 50/40 springs???
F
18 August 2005, 10:55 AM
#51
Originally Posted by Floyd
I've bottomed the suspension at about 110-120mph at Fuchsrohre. No real drama in that and it didn't unsettle the car. I am getting some wheel to wheel arch rubbing action though in Karussell but this sounds a LOT worse that the damage.
18 August 2005, 12:42 PM
#52
Never been to the Ring, but is that part of the track a straight or with a bend?
If a bend then the roll bars will influence bottoming out as well as spring rate.
Obviously, the static and dynamic ride height is the most influential, ie car without people to car with driver and screaming passengers
I hear that Floyd = Fuzz in the frantic stakes..................................
It will be very interesting to get the 60/50 springs on next week I hope.
I also hope to pick the car up from PowerStation at their open day on Saturday, so might see some of you there and see who else is an old fart.(or am I alone?)
Graham.
If a bend then the roll bars will influence bottoming out as well as spring rate.
Obviously, the static and dynamic ride height is the most influential, ie car without people to car with driver and screaming passengers
I hear that Floyd = Fuzz in the frantic stakes..................................
It will be very interesting to get the 60/50 springs on next week I hope.
I also hope to pick the car up from PowerStation at their open day on Saturday, so might see some of you there and see who else is an old fart.(or am I alone?)
Graham.
18 August 2005, 02:43 PM
#53
Fast down hill sweeping left hand turn which apexes in a dip before rising again, quite a steep hill in both directions too. Really shows up a sorted suspension set up, most cars bottom out as you hit the dip and then you have a fishtail on your hands One of my favorite bits of the ring, mind you I really like the force of gravity
One of my favorite bits of the ring, mind you I really like the force of gravity
18 August 2005, 04:14 PM
#55
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great thread this graham.
totally lost 'with the bouncy up and down bits' but mega interesting nontheless.
totally lost 'with the bouncy up and down bits' but mega interesting nontheless.
18 August 2005, 06:12 PM
#56
Secret language....
Bracing myself for the hardest hill in the Midlands, Shelsley Walsh.
Very steep, makes the 407 bhp Impreza feel like its standing still. Set of very fast off-camber curves at the bottom and a very nasty 'esse' in the hill before a massive power blast to the top flat in 3rd/4th.
And the forecast is rain.
Bloody illegal EVO is there and a Bloody illegal Nissan too, so should be easy!
Bumper crowd, about 5000 over the weekend so good to show off....
Trusting the AST's to death....
Graham
Bracing myself for the hardest hill in the Midlands, Shelsley Walsh.
Very steep, makes the 407 bhp Impreza feel like its standing still. Set of very fast off-camber curves at the bottom and a very nasty 'esse' in the hill before a massive power blast to the top flat in 3rd/4th.
And the forecast is rain.
Bloody illegal EVO is there and a Bloody illegal Nissan too, so should be easy!
Bumper crowd, about 5000 over the weekend so good to show off....
Trusting the AST's to death....
Graham
18 August 2005, 07:58 PM
#57
Woowoowoo! 407 BHP dropped into that conversation, alert I can't believe you need stiffer rates already. The rates I have are good enough with the dampers wound up in reality.
Steven, 110, now I know your lying
Sorry, too much beer.
F
I can't believe you need stiffer rates already. The rates I have are good enough with the dampers wound up in reality.Steven, 110, now I know your lying
Sorry, too much beer.
F
18 August 2005, 10:28 PM
#58
Flloyd:
Didn't realise you would be 'watching'
I want to try the stiffer rate as 60/50 is just about what I had on the evil AVO's.
I will be trying the stiff damping as long as it's not too jittery.
The Shelsley curves are very un nerving especially the first one due to adverse camber to say the least. Getting the right line and not chickening-out is essential.
Why do I do this?
My cosey little 911 awaits in the garage @ 231 bhp (sorry) and 1000Kg.
Hoping to get a free power run on the rollers at PowerStation soon, so expect about 3*0 bhp for a change.....
Wish me luck!
Graham.
Didn't realise you would be 'watching'
I want to try the stiffer rate as 60/50 is just about what I had on the evil AVO's.
I will be trying the stiff damping as long as it's not too jittery.
The Shelsley curves are very un nerving especially the first one due to adverse camber to say the least. Getting the right line and not chickening-out is essential.
Why do I do this?
My cosey little 911 awaits in the garage @ 231 bhp (sorry) and 1000Kg.
Hoping to get a free power run on the rollers at PowerStation soon, so expect about 3*0 bhp for a change.....
Wish me luck!
Graham.
21 August 2005, 06:57 AM
#60
What a race meeting.
The result?
Second in class at this most frighteming venue, second to THAT EVO5 who set a new class record, beating the rest of us, but also the 600bhp Audi, TVR (with AJPengine) the 500 bhp 911 etc etc etc b@stArd!
The Sti was just great.
The suspension was just soooooo smooooooth it is untrue, allowing me to set a personal best of 33.22 seconds and a start time od 2.03 secs for the standing start/64 foot marker.
Just such a buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Rather than bore you with my words, here are some pic taken by my daughter and wife of the Sti and some of the killer machinary there at Shelsley Walsh's Centeenary meeting; will get a bit techie later today as I've found out a few things...
The start line
5500 rpm and DUMP the clutch..
First of the deceptive bends:
Second of the bends..6800 ish in third..AST's come into their own here!
After this one there is a very steep incline so ****** 4th, and plant it and gun towards The Bottom Esse, approach speed 88 mph. pray for the brakes..
There is then a second Esse bend which is a 2nd gear blast and you are blind going into it..them suddenlt the finishing straight appears. At this point I crashed my 911 into a 300 year old tree that jumped out into my path a few years ago, so Respect for that bit.
Screem out in 2nd to 7500, ****** 3rd, onto 4th for the last 100 meters and trip the lights at 88 mph and 33.22 second run. The EVO does this lot in 31.12 secs and 104 mph over the line...
Others having a go, just for your ammusement:
Pre start line to heat-up the tyres
He held this right though the Esses!
I want these!
Lots more pic but time to go back to the track for a day of stunning cars for the Centenary.
What a petrol-head weekend
Graham
The result?
Second in class at this most frighteming venue, second to THAT EVO5 who set a new class record, beating the rest of us, but also the 600bhp Audi, TVR (with AJPengine) the 500 bhp 911 etc etc etc b@stArd!
The Sti was just great.
The suspension was just soooooo smooooooth it is untrue, allowing me to set a personal best of 33.22 seconds and a start time od 2.03 secs for the standing start/64 foot marker.
Just such a buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Rather than bore you with my words, here are some pic taken by my daughter and wife of the Sti and some of the killer machinary there at Shelsley Walsh's Centeenary meeting; will get a bit techie later today as I've found out a few things...
The start line
5500 rpm and DUMP the clutch..
First of the deceptive bends:
Second of the bends..6800 ish in third..AST's come into their own here!
After this one there is a very steep incline so ****** 4th, and plant it and gun towards The Bottom Esse, approach speed 88 mph. pray for the brakes..
There is then a second Esse bend which is a 2nd gear blast and you are blind going into it..them suddenlt the finishing straight appears. At this point I crashed my 911 into a 300 year old tree that jumped out into my path a few years ago, so Respect for that bit.
Screem out in 2nd to 7500, ****** 3rd, onto 4th for the last 100 meters and trip the lights at 88 mph and 33.22 second run. The EVO does this lot in 31.12 secs and 104 mph over the line...
Others having a go, just for your ammusement:
Pre start line to heat-up the tyres
He held this right though the Esses!
I want these!
Lots more pic but time to go back to the track for a day of stunning cars for the Centenary.
What a petrol-head weekend
Graham
Last edited by 911; 21 August 2005 at 07:09 AM.