Searching for the perfect Chassis
11 June 2006, 03:39 PM
#541
a/r bars
Hi Graham, nice to see you happy with the car again and doing well!
Fitting a stiffer front anti roll bar will weaken the front grip and lead to understeer.
Fitting the rear stiffer a/r bar would weaken the rear grip ( relative to the front ) and make the car feel more front grippy ( beware of oversteer from rear after! ).
Both will reduce car roll ( and so tyre loading ).
When I went from std wrx a/r bars ( 17mm front. 19 mm rear IIRC ? ) to whiteline 22mm front, 24 mm adjustable rear, I fitted rear first and what a good mod! The 3 holes correspond roughly to 22, 23, 24 mm stiffness, so middle hole you are using is likely to be around 23 mm thickness effectively.
When I fitted the 22mm front a/r bar the next day, the car changed handling dramatically, back to understeer. I still want to change back the front a/r bar to lose the understeer, but not got round to it and as a road car, it is liveable with!
Enjoy
Neil
Fitting a stiffer front anti roll bar will weaken the front grip and lead to understeer.
Fitting the rear stiffer a/r bar would weaken the rear grip ( relative to the front ) and make the car feel more front grippy ( beware of oversteer from rear after! ).
Both will reduce car roll ( and so tyre loading ).
When I went from std wrx a/r bars ( 17mm front. 19 mm rear IIRC ? ) to whiteline 22mm front, 24 mm adjustable rear, I fitted rear first and what a good mod! The 3 holes correspond roughly to 22, 23, 24 mm stiffness, so middle hole you are using is likely to be around 23 mm thickness effectively.
When I fitted the 22mm front a/r bar the next day, the car changed handling dramatically, back to understeer. I still want to change back the front a/r bar to lose the understeer, but not got round to it and as a road car, it is liveable with!
Enjoy
Neil
11 June 2006, 10:03 PM
#543
Not long back from the hill climb.
Good news:
2nd in class, persoanl best (in fact 3 pb's this weekend), a start of 2.05 secs to 64ft and all this with about 31 deg C! Bllodt hot.
so was the car, and so was the driver (in several ways...)
The car was fab, just so so so so good in the bends, so predictable and full of 'neutrality' an absolite joy to blast up the hill.
Ran at 58.65 in the end, a full second or more of my previous best and also within less than 1.5 secs of the EVO, the closest for years.
Then cruised home with all the windows down for air conditioning..
The bad news? Didn't come first
Camera still messing me about so only a few snaps:
Pretty or what?
The Audi has 428 bhp/418 lbft!
So tranquil, shame to make a noise
Carlos: not too sure what the effect would be (yet).
The chassis is just so good now. The PowerStation AST's and the Whiteline Rear bar addition is such an improvement it is hard to express.
Roll-on Prescott in 2 weeks time!
http://www.dropshots.com/daymainfram...0030108&cimg=0
Graham
Good news:
2nd in class, persoanl best (in fact 3 pb's this weekend), a start of 2.05 secs to 64ft and all this with about 31 deg C! Bllodt hot.
so was the car, and so was the driver (in several ways...)
The car was fab, just so so so so good in the bends, so predictable and full of 'neutrality' an absolite joy to blast up the hill.
Ran at 58.65 in the end, a full second or more of my previous best and also within less than 1.5 secs of the EVO, the closest for years.
Then cruised home with all the windows down for air conditioning..
The bad news? Didn't come first
Camera still messing me about so only a few snaps:
Pretty or what?
The Audi has 428 bhp/418 lbft!
So tranquil, shame to make a noise
Carlos: not too sure what the effect would be (yet).
The chassis is just so good now. The PowerStation AST's and the Whiteline Rear bar addition is such an improvement it is hard to express.
Roll-on Prescott in 2 weeks time!
http://www.dropshots.com/daymainfram...0030108&cimg=0
Graham
Last edited by 911; 11 June 2006 at 10:51 PM.
12 June 2006, 12:37 PM
#547
Dowser:
No, we were parked right on the track's return road, so he and 20 others had just finished thier sweaty runs. I tied to get a shot of him blurred for extra effect...but typically I missed the goal!
Terry:
No, he has just fitted the Kumho's instead of his Dunlops and they are just getting nicely 'scrubbed'.....he is a copy cat realy!
I started with the wrong base car.
Perhaps I should add that since fitting the Whiteline 24 bar (on middle hole) the bend in the video usually makes the inside rear tyre lift, and on the faster runs now the rear stays planted.
Infact, 'planted' was a phrase used a lot by knowledgable observers about the car for the last 2 meetings.
Graham
No, we were parked right on the track's return road, so he and 20 others had just finished thier sweaty runs. I tied to get a shot of him blurred for extra effect...but typically I missed the goal!
Terry:
No, he has just fitted the Kumho's instead of his Dunlops and they are just getting nicely 'scrubbed'.....he is a copy cat realy!
I started with the wrong base car.
Perhaps I should add that since fitting the Whiteline 24 bar (on middle hole) the bend in the video usually makes the inside rear tyre lift, and on the faster runs now the rear stays planted.
Infact, 'planted' was a phrase used a lot by knowledgable observers about the car for the last 2 meetings.
Graham
Last edited by 911; 12 June 2006 at 12:41 PM.
12 June 2006, 06:10 PM
#549
Indeed it is. It is great to be able to drive there on the road, pop the numbers and time strut on, get a bacon sandwich.
Race the boll@cks off it, remove the numbers and cruise home, time after time after time.
The car now is ready to go to the next stages, a Transmission (lsd's/Zen gears/Lateral clutch), slicks, and a big engine (480 x 450 will do, ie a revvy 2.5), and finally a stripped shell, but I realy dont want to go to the last bit yet. I want to keep it roadable, albeit a bit uncomfortable maybe, but a bit like Fuzz's car with a few frills on top!(I'm an old guy)
The Audi Quattro boys have found that a steel door gutted weighs less than a fibre glass door and you have all the accurate hinges, seals and locks too; could even keep one electric window!
Money is the factor now. I have been very fortunate to have been loaned the fab AST's and the Whiteline rear bar. The total package is so nice on the road and hill climbs...but the EVO is still there but so close.
One day!
Graham.
Race the boll@cks off it, remove the numbers and cruise home, time after time after time.
The car now is ready to go to the next stages, a Transmission (lsd's/Zen gears/Lateral clutch), slicks, and a big engine (480 x 450 will do, ie a revvy 2.5), and finally a stripped shell, but I realy dont want to go to the last bit yet. I want to keep it roadable, albeit a bit uncomfortable maybe, but a bit like Fuzz's car with a few frills on top!(I'm an old guy)
The Audi Quattro boys have found that a steel door gutted weighs less than a fibre glass door and you have all the accurate hinges, seals and locks too; could even keep one electric window!
Money is the factor now. I have been very fortunate to have been loaned the fab AST's and the Whiteline rear bar. The total package is so nice on the road and hill climbs...but the EVO is still there but so close.
One day!
Graham.
18 June 2006, 12:11 PM
#552
Beware!
There are 2 AST systems, last year i ran (for them) what I would call the road/race ssytem, about £1000 for the AST's. They are VERY good.(especially with '50/40' spring rates.
This year they removed them and fitted the full race system which is perfectly roadable, and that costs about £2000.(and is killa on the track)
The Whiteline ARB etc which you must have before anything else on the chassis will cost about £350.
On top of all this you need the PowerStation alignment buy Curtis or Andy, just ace technicians.
Call PowerStation, tell them '911' sent you and see what package you can come-up with.
Graham.
There are 2 AST systems, last year i ran (for them) what I would call the road/race ssytem, about £1000 for the AST's. They are VERY good.(especially with '50/40' spring rates.
This year they removed them and fitted the full race system which is perfectly roadable, and that costs about £2000.(and is killa on the track)
The Whiteline ARB etc which you must have before anything else on the chassis will cost about £350.
On top of all this you need the PowerStation alignment buy Curtis or Andy, just ace technicians.
Call PowerStation, tell them '911' sent you and see what package you can come-up with.
Graham.
18 June 2006, 12:35 PM
#554
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Originally Posted by vulnax999
When I went from std wrx a/r bars ( 17mm front. 19 mm rear IIRC ? ) to whiteline 22mm front, 24 mm adjustable rear, I fitted rear first and what a good mod! The 3 holes correspond roughly to 22, 23, 24 mm stiffness, so middle hole you are using is likely to be around 23 mm thickness effectively.
Both front and rear were 19mm standard on my '95 WRX. I'm still running the 19mm front, with a 22mm rear on the stiffest hole. Car is fairly neutral, but this is very much dependent on geometry. Have just switched to near-parallel toe and 1.5deg camber all-round, with standard caster and this makes a huge difference compared to the usual toe-in that most people run. Car feels very 'pointy', feels terrific in the dry with virtually no understeer, with very slight oversteer in the wet (entertaining and benign, rather than lairy). Next step is to try more caster on the front topmounts (D2 coilover setup, 50/40 springs) and maybe back to middle hole on the rear bar.
Neil - we've seen these "1mm effective difference between holes" quoted a few times now, but I don't see that anywhere in Whiteline's literature. What's your source?
Andy
18 June 2006, 05:42 PM
#555
They are probably mathmatically derrived, but it doesn't really matter as the adjustment positions are repeatable.
I first hill climbed my Sti v3 on 22Fr/22Rr x middle position and with all the other mods, no understeer.
Now running same front with 24mm rear on middle and the car is better still.
Carlos: No, weekend off for a change!
Flat-out next week at Prescott, go a mission to chase the eVO for some fun...
Graham
I first hill climbed my Sti v3 on 22Fr/22Rr x middle position and with all the other mods, no understeer.
Now running same front with 24mm rear on middle and the car is better still.
Carlos: No, weekend off for a change!
Flat-out next week at Prescott, go a mission to chase the eVO for some fun...
Graham
18 June 2006, 09:17 PM
#557
On the public road to start, and the hill climb to finish.
Not as stupid as you may think. A UK hillclimb is like a fast (!) run down a country lane, and you can sense a lot on the way to the meetings as I know the routes very well after 13 years of running them.
I do NOT go crazy fast down a public road, but there are bends/dives/turns that are 'just right' and you have a pop at them to feel the car.
On the hillclimb things are remarkably similar.
Racing on the road is a no-no.
Having a spirited drive is a Good Thing, but you need to be mature about it.
Graham
seen this?
http://www.geocities.com/markgalea20...cephotos1.html
I can learn from this guy!
Not as stupid as you may think. A UK hillclimb is like a fast (!) run down a country lane, and you can sense a lot on the way to the meetings as I know the routes very well after 13 years of running them.
I do NOT go crazy fast down a public road, but there are bends/dives/turns that are 'just right' and you have a pop at them to feel the car.
On the hillclimb things are remarkably similar.
Racing on the road is a no-no.
Having a spirited drive is a Good Thing, but you need to be mature about it.
Graham
seen this?
http://www.geocities.com/markgalea20...cephotos1.html
I can learn from this guy!
Last edited by 911; 18 June 2006 at 09:24 PM.
20 June 2006, 06:02 PM
#560
I think I'm looking at this car all wrong now.
I keep on looking for donar parts to modify so I can simply and quickly return it to stock to sell, and to then sell the tuning parts separatly. Extra work, but more dosh.
Fed-up chasing gearboxes on Ebay and loosing as I need a naff box/diff to re-build, not a good one!
If gearboxes are so fragile, why are there so few available?
Perhaps i should just roach the car out and admit this will be my last 'race car'!
Prescott this weekend and the big EVO chase with quite a few chasing me!
Wadsey also looking for blood, so need to get on with it. Should be a good run and possibly in the wet where things usually go well for me (I like racing in the rain)
Graham.
I keep on looking for donar parts to modify so I can simply and quickly return it to stock to sell, and to then sell the tuning parts separatly. Extra work, but more dosh.
Fed-up chasing gearboxes on Ebay and loosing as I need a naff box/diff to re-build, not a good one!
If gearboxes are so fragile, why are there so few available?
Perhaps i should just roach the car out and admit this will be my last 'race car'!
Prescott this weekend and the big EVO chase with quite a few chasing me!
Wadsey also looking for blood, so need to get on with it. Should be a good run and possibly in the wet where things usually go well for me (I like racing in the rain)
Graham.
21 June 2006, 12:05 PM
#562
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Hope it goes well for you this w/e, still away so yet again i will miss this one, on the other hand the parts are arriving fast and furious so will have loads to do when i get back.
John
John
21 June 2006, 12:47 PM
#563
Season's 1/2 done now....
hope it will be quick enough for the Audi A4 quattro with a 4.2 V8 and twin turbos, on slicks, with a good driver.
Be scared...we all are.
Graham
hope it will be quick enough for the Audi A4 quattro with a 4.2 V8 and twin turbos, on slicks, with a good driver.
Be scared...we all are.
Graham
21 June 2006, 11:33 PM
#564
"looking for blood" me? - sounds a bit serious!! I've just got the car this evening, haven't driven it yet!! Out on the road for some testing tomorrow.
I hope it doesn't rain for my first event - that would be a great intro and round off what has been a rather frustrating "development" of the car.
Looking forward to it whatever though.
Cheers
Martin
I hope it doesn't rain for my first event - that would be a great intro and round off what has been a rather frustrating "development" of the car.
Looking forward to it whatever though.
Cheers
Martin
23 June 2006, 01:12 PM
#570
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Originally Posted by 911
Season's 1/2 done now....
hope it will be quick enough for the Audi A4 quattro with a 4.2 V8 and twin turbos, on slicks, with a good driver.
Be scared...we all are.
Graham
hope it will be quick enough for the Audi A4 quattro with a 4.2 V8 and twin turbos, on slicks, with a good driver.
Be scared...we all are.
Graham
Will leave him to you experts, will be to busy trying to beat myself, have a good w/e and keep the pressure on the EVO This could be the one.
John
