^OPM^

and god forbid u have never sped i bet!

Fabioso

There seems to be something missing in the information to me. I'd put money on the police report and witness statements giving a slightly different 'account'. On the face of it, the decision seems harsh but I don't think we are seeing the full facts.

rr_ww

It reminds me of the other case of the "wronged driver" the guy in the Porsche who was racing someone who crashed and died (IIRC) If we could see the evidence all sides presented I think more people would sign the petition.

Tiggs

if you think that is even CLOSE to what happened here you are very naive.

^OPM^

seems to me we have a lot of half soaped people-heck we all die-some sooner then others-if you see someone dying just wink at them -say see you soon and off you walk-nought else needed-we are all gonna die-why loose sleep about it-before anyone says it yes i saw my dad dead in hospital at an early age of his life-i didn't shed a tear then-why worry he dies so what-**** happens-move on- make what u can of ur life before u r also snuffed out-as to my dad-as far as he was concerned a bin bag in canal be good enough for him once he was dead he didn't care-so moral is-u see a crash-look at stiffs-then get out of there before cops arrive-simple enough at end of day!

^OPM^

sorry tiggs was u expecting a compasionate person to reply-no chance-i live in real world where real things happen-get back on ur button moon and when u know real life then get back to me-in mean time if u crash-and u see a person stop and wink at you-mite be me-check your wallet afterwards lmao-mite have helped myself to it hee hee

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

I can see sense to both arguments, although basic they are.

1) we don't know the FULL facts presented at Trail
2) If someone crashes and Dies in front of you, is it your fault?

I like a spirited drive, on the way to meet on a long twisty A road, doing 70+ I come across a *** and his Girlfriend in a Fiesta doing pootling along at 45-50mph in a 60mph then he starts increases his speed by 20-25mph and as we start to approach bends hes getting understeer around corners. I am not going to go into the big numbers to get past him he then comes across a slow vehicle and does a very dodgey overtake on double whites so I let him go on. A few miles further on caught him up again, hes back doing 45-50ish, as i went to overtake he started booting the Car and we are back up to 75+ WTF.

I just pulled into a Petrol Station bought a drink and hoped he have his own little accident somewhere else. At least he can say in the Pub he beat a scoob

Now If he had an accident then or even later, someone on the road could have said "He" was seen racing a Scoob and I could have been in a simular circumstances

Tony

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

Just another example of this stupid country not letting people be responsible for their own actions.

Yes they may have been racing, but no one MADE the fiesta race, apart from adrenaline,

Sympathies to those lost in this, but the simple matter is, dont push yourself/your car beyond known boundries!

And if you want to, then do it on a bloody track.



Cookie

jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

As others have stated the full facts in the court room and witness statements probably add up to a lot more than the story told on the sxoc.

The main problem I have is with the guy changing his plea to guilty, IMO you only do that if you ARE guilty and it's blindingly obvious to the court. In this case if you plead not guilty then you know you'll be punished even more.

Either way I think it's wrong to blame the driver of the 200sx for their deaths, even if they were racing. I think the driver of any car is responsible for his/her own car only, I mean the guy in the fiesta should have been driving with the conditions and his skill in mind.

Mitchy260

2 sides to every story and the story seems to be very 1 sided!

The courts dont send people away for 5 years on circumstancial evidence! Something is missing from this!

rik-1

From the facts we have read;
I think, if the only reason the Fiesta driver drove in the way he did, was because he believed he was in a race then it could be said that he had CHOICE. If he could have chosen not to participate but decided to, then he is responsible for the accident.
In fact, surely the only other people who could be liable would be any other adults in the Fiesta as they would have been in a position to ask/tell the driver, or would have had direct influence on the driver.

Kuohu

A bit of background from the local press:

Sentinel article 1
Sentinel article 2

'Jackson admitted causing death by dangerous driving' yet this petition and other comments seem to revolve around a theme of 'we were not racing'.

imi

good post.

AGREE.

Although for driving 90mph in the wet should attract some sort of punishment as it is dangerous not only for the people in that car but also for other drivers on the road

Secondly - since Jacko has accepted reponsibility for the incident I dont see what the fuss is all about......

+Doc+

How can anyone sign a petition on a situation they know nothing about?

Chris L

Indeed and looking on Pistonheads - there is an equally lengthy discussion about this. Many people are bringing up the same doubts as voiced on here. One or two of the articles published in the PH thread also throw a new light on the incident. There is certainly more to this than we are being told.

carl

In a Scoob -- I would. But not in the Cerb that I have now. I haven't driven a 200SX.

cheddar bob

[Disclaimer - Don't know enough of the facts as has been mentioned but from what I've read:]
I think that the punishment is way too harsh, no question he should be banned or disqualified for dangerous driving/speeding/racing but can't believe he got 5 years

One things for sure if an unmarked police car was closely following a speeding motorist and 'egging them on' or encouraging them to speed more (which i've witnessed on more than one occassion) making them think it's:

a) a race
Or
b) some 'dodgy' car or driver

Which in turn makes them uncomfortable and (or want to) drive faster possibly past there own limits, then they lose control or whatever, crash and die would the officer 'chasing/tailing' get this punishment...


They'd probably get off without any points or disciplining at all

It's the same principle though as this incident (what we know of it anyway )

It's appears this may be just another example of what a state the justice system is in

Tiggs

having own a scoob. a TVR and a 200sx......i wouldnt race any off them ...which is why im sat at home not in prison.

Ian_S

He got 5 years for Causing death by Dangerous driving, which anyone with half a brain cell knows is a certain prison sentence.

He pleaded Guilty.

What more does he want?

cheddar bob

Yes he got 5 years for Causing Death by Dangerous Driving, well done for pointing that out... but the point of this thread is for poeple to judge from what information is available as to whether to sign the petition or not and whether the punishment fits the "crime".

IMO he stopped to help and did the honest and decent thing after what was (granted) a very silly thing to do in the first place in the conditions but it wasn't as if he ram'd him off the road or performed a PIT maneuver on him and yes pleading guilty obviously has a major negative affect if he appeals. BUT you can't deny the other driver had a choice aswell AND the main responsibility for himself and the others in his car.

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

That was what I was thinking when I read it. How can he be charged with causing their deaths? The driver of the Fiesta was responsible for his and his passengers death.

The speeds were high I admit, very high but to prosecute another driver for causing the deaths of two people is very harsh.

I also find the spec of the 2 cars very irrelevant, in the wet a front wheel drive car no matter what the power would be quicker than an average driver in a rear wheel drive with quite a bit of power.

^Qwerty^

The title of this thread doesn't appear to tell the full story. There must be other evidence, witness statements or something, because you don't get banged up for five years just for stopping to help somebody.

Even so, it does take two to have a race and getting banged up for five years seems a little OTT to me. Some lad got six years for man slaughter last week in Leeds IIRC, and that was for sticking a knife in his father.

Andrew Timmins

"It has been proven from video evidence and timing of a phone call that Stephens brother made, who was a passenger in the Nissan along with his fiancé Louise Johnson that the Nissan was travelling at an average speed of 90mph."

What video evidence? From occupants of one of the cars or some unmentioned third party?

Jap2Scrap

CCTV?
Trafficmaster?

ChrisB

Trafficmaster are meant to dump the information as soon as they processed the timings to work out the traffic speed.

Where they came from, Festival Park, is full of CCTV though.

StickyMicky

trying to get a proper picture here.............

so this is like 2 blokes racing, which plenty of us have done, but thats besides the point, because its wrong and illegal, anybody who did not know that is a ****tard

now there racing, and one crashes, the bloke stops to help, because he stopped to help he should be let off the fact that he was racing?

or have i got this wrong, i had a quick skim of the main thread and sum links

jods

If he hadn't stopped he would be facing a 10yr stretch - IMHO.

Markus

Maybe I have missed something, but why did he plead guilty? If he did not think he had done anything wrong then he should have pleaded not guilty.

There are three sides to every story, yours, mine, and the truth (to quote Extreme).

We don't know the exact details published on court, we have not seen the evidence, so we can't really proffer our views either way, we're not in full possesion of the facts.

From what we have been presented with, it seems as though both cars were travelling in excess of the posted speed limit, and in very poor conditions. Regardless of the accident, both of those things are not wise, regardless of the car you're in, or your skill as a driver.

Smiler

The way I read it is that they were racing.

I've done it before.

90% of people on this forum have probably done it.

You get older and wiser and realise that if you want to race then you should do a track day or something similar.

carl

Of course, track days are non-competitive